I feel that with the bipolar swing that Caitlyn took from being goddess of the bot lane in Season 3 to not having a positive win rate against her badpick in Season 5, Caitlyn could use a little bit of an update.
RiotCertainlyT28 votesWe are indeed doing some work on Caitlyn as part of the pre-season's Marksmen update. None of her abilities are likely to change substantially. As many have mentioned she's fun and functional on Live. It's just hard to identify a situation when she's the right pick over other marksmen.
Here's the gist of the present direction, roughly ordered big to small in terms of where our changes are likely to focus:
Mongoose28 votesi have a suggestion:
if caitlyn kills a target with her ult, 3 bullets bounce from the target and attack the 3 nearest champions, dealing %max hp true damage to them and giving caitlyn 3 dashes with her ult. during this time, her passive drops to every 3 hits and also deals %max hp true damage.
to balance this out, we will reduce her base ad by 2.
this will separate the good caitlyns from the great.
RiotCertainlyT84 votesi have a suggestion:
if caitlyn kills a target with her ult, 3 bullets bounce from the target and attack the 3 nearest champions, dealing %max hp true damage to them and giving caitlyn 3 dashes with her ult. during this time, her passive drops to every 3 hits and also deals %max hp true damage.
to balance this out, we will reduce her base ad by 2.
this will separate the good caitlyns from the great.
That will synergize nicely with her innovative new "cops and robbers mini-game" which causes her attacks against the richest enemy champion to heal her for 10% of her missing health. Cops and Robbers triggers any time her team kills the dragon while in control of their fort.
LaceUp232 votesHis comment wasn't too out of line with your normal, so I'm not sure why you're mocking him.
Solidair316 votes"he's mocking you so I'm not sure why you're mocking him"
LaceUp231 votesNo. Like I said, his comment actually wasn't out of line with what Certainlyt does.
Sightless6615 votesThat was the joke. Certainlyt got the joke too, and responded with a CertainlyT bullshit mechanic of his own. It was funny until you got here.
LaceUp231 votesNo joke. Op's idea was very much in line with certainlyt normal way....I'm not sure why he took it as a joke?
The Yetii Rider4 votesThat will synergize nicely with her innovative new "cops and robbers mini-game" which causes her attacks against the richest enemy champion to heal her for 10% of her missing health. Cops and Robbers triggers any time her team kills the dragon while in control of their fort.
Cannot. Upvote. Enough.
PROJECT Aletas1 votesMy idea would be to rework her Q completely, it'd work the following way:
Hope you like it :D let me know what you think ^^
Gorgannan1 votesMachine guns are Jinx's thing.
DoubleJesus1 votesWhat if Caitlyn marks a target enemy champion or structure for X Seconds, during that time she gains increased auto attack range on the target and deals bonus damage per auto attack. If she targets a minion, neutral monster or epic monster she fires a Piltover peacemaker.
With this the nerf to her base attack range (which is the only way in my opinion to give her definable strengths and weakness' in the laning phase.) will be shored up by this new ability without killing her wave clear.
Also perhaps if during this effect, only once, you can reactivate this for a second time on another target. My only gripe on this change is that it basically kills Caitlyns only real combo. Perhaps if recasted on the same champion it fires a peacemaker? Obviously nerf peacemaker damage to compensate but increase its damage to minions and monsters to not kill one of her primary functions as reliable wave clear during sieges.
MrPantsOptional1 votesBut seriously can we have a mini game for attacking the richest enemy?
nothingxs2 votesthese are the best 2 comments in the universe
Heldericht1 votesThat will synergize nicely with her innovative new "cops and robbers mini-game" which causes her attacks against the richest enemy champion to heal her for 10% of her missing health. Cops and Robbers triggers any time her team kills the dragon while in control of their fort.
You are awesome.
NapaIm1 votesNice comeback CertainlyT. Thank you for looking into Caitlyn =D
Stephenizgod1 votesLMFAO!!! I may not like some of your changes in Live but damn are they fun.
Y'all should make a separate map and then let you redesign like 15-20 champions with your crazy awesome mechanics and have only those champions available. Then let the good times roll!
Small Tiddies2 votesSounds just like the recent reworks. Hey! We're giving every champion a true damage skill and a max health skill! Have fun tanks~
Pyrodinium6 votesCertainlyT is on the case.
Aw, yeah! :)
Stacona1 votesShe has too much range in the laning phase, on top of trap annoyance and her escape with net she becomes the least fun champion to go against in laning phase unless you are Ashe where the range difference is not as extreme
To fix this i say make Caitlyn's range 600 and increases with points in her ultimate (maybe something like +25/50/100, so 700 range at level 16+) this will allow her to siege in the late game really well with her perma-range, but not be super dominant in the early game (makes her scale better too)
Here is a cool mechanic, perhaps have a damage difference based on distance to champion, more damage further she is and less damage the closer she is and it will be her new passive rather the attack speed burst passive she has now (never makes sense as a sniper) - example could be 60% damage when in melee range and 120% damage when 600+ range away; so it rewards caitlyn with being a long range sniper with proper position and punishes her for mispositioning or if the enemy jumps you and you dont have your net to get away and make sense to why she has a slow on her net so that she jumps away, get in her sweet spot zone, and fire with her max increased damage while her target is slowed
Solumindra1 votesSo you want to make her into a bad tristana.....
I can't agree with this idea at all. Caitlyn is only good because of her range in lane. You can't take that away and the champ be ok, no matter what, she would need a whole rework with that idea. They want to keep her move set overall the same, what you want would only be a nerf.
Stacona1 votes600 range is still a lot - but this is to make it so she is not so oppressive and then she can have a better late game - also 20% more damage for being in the long range section is pretty good if you can maximize this - values obviously all adjustable ; but point is sweet spot is more damage and up close is weak damage and have a unique mechanic there and a skill mechanic
Solumindra1 votesOnce again, that is purely a nerf. 100 range to get your max damage is a laughably small area that any champion with mobility creep can completely negate. Since that is almost every champion played you would hardly ever put out max damage. 100 range nerf in lane, she already cant win against Vayne.... lets just cut her range and she will do worse... do you want to gut her?! Then on top of all the issues outlined, if she gets dove she does less damage! So she can't even trade with Zed who would just ult her and bam, useless Cait. No....No...what you want to do is nothing but a gutting.
Now if you took away the de-buff for being close and gave her +100 range per point in ult that whole idea could work. But 800 range is just absurd and would make her way too powerful, broken level with the damage buff from 600-800 range. There really isn't a way to make that kit work.
Stacona1 votesThe point is adding more skill to Caitlyn so you sit in her sweet spot for more damage- not to mention she has her net
my change is a straight buff for caitlyn, but it is in a way to make her not be frustrating to play against
Solumindra1 votesExcept it is anything but a buff in League of Mobility Creep where most champions can completely negate the 100 AA range area you want to actually make her viable in.
You want to
Lower her AA range in lane - hurting her laning phase, which as I said before she already is losing to her counters, Vayne I'm looking at you.
Make her deal less damage in melee. - While not normally a problem it becomes one when Yasuo, Zed, and any Tank in the game force their way into your face. You get one shot at using 90 cal net, not like blitz, morg, yasuo, zed, riven, etc really care....
20% more for being in the 600-700 (sweet spot) - Once again, mobility creep says hi, good luck staying in this range against, blitz, yasuo, zed, riven, naut, etc, etc...
It isn't a buff when mobility creep exists on pretty much every single meta champion, and you get 1 move to help positioning. Caitlyn would never thrive under those conditions.
Stacona1 votesVayne counters Caitlyn -
Again, caitlyn has her net, use your net wisely to increase the gap and her damage
This is again a skill mechanism - rather have a skill mechanic that makes a good Caitlyn an amazing Caitlyn rather than have an anti-fun bull sht champion to play against
Solumindra1 votesVayne counters Caitlyn
No....no she doesn't... Caitlyn is supposed to be a huge lane counter to Vayne, but because of Caitlyn being weak right now, that isn't really the case.
http://www.championselect.net/champ/caitlyn
This is again a skill mechanism - rather have a skill mechanic that makes a good Caitlyn an amazing Caitlyn rather than have an anti-fun bull sht champion to play against
A skill mechanic that makes the champion extremely weak except for a sliver of playable gamespace that every meta champ can completely ignore....that isn't skill, at all. EVERY META CHAMP can ignore it, and almost all of them have lower CD on their movement abilities than Caitlyn does on her net....Also I would rather have a champion just be strong without a gimmick, not everyone needs a minigame.
Stacona1 votesi can play the match up 10/10 times,. vayne will win every time, vayne counters caitlyn - ashe and kennen counter vayne and if you play a good draven
silvers do not know to play ad , AT ALL, they don't know objective taking, focusing the tank, proper position, kiting (attacking and moving back), spell management (when to use certain spells and when NOT to use certain spells), spell and basic attack weaving, etc etc So my mechanic will place Caitlyn in a higher skill area and in competitive play where the good players will maximize her strengths and essentially abuse the mechanic
Solumindra1 votesI like how you keep just ignoring that every meta champ has some sort of mobility, that i keep pointing out, and you keep ignoring...
lol. You can respond, I won't be anymore, I have faith that Riot won't do what you think she needs.
Stacona1 votesMeta champions right now is like Viktor, Azir, Lulu, Morde, Darius, Skarner---so you don't even know what the fk the meta is at the moment - also we balance champions to balance champions, we don't make changes to a champion for a meta that changes with every dam patch,
Kazzaam1 votesDoes that include a VU? Caitlyn is one of the champions in the game that really feels clunky and outdated in comparison with the rest, specially if you put her close to the others Piltover characters like Vi, Jinx and Jayce, they all have cool gadgets and they have that modern feel while Caitlyn looks like she is from 1650.
SIayton1 votesWhat if Cait had to aim her autos? Crazy thought but imagine if you had to skill shot her autos, you could add the crazy range and really reward people for being a "marskman" with her, since she's a sniper and all.
Or maybe have her range increase the longer she holds still, so she can auto from really far away but she has to give up mobility for it. That would also fit in the whole sniper theme. Enemy team would have to figure out where she's perched at and go kill her.
Charles Arwin1 votesIn fact the worst most annoying thing about her (besides the AA bug) is her net being so easily countered. It would go well with 3) to make sure that she isn't thrown by Voli after already being visibly propelled out of his range... That effect happens with a selection of abilities and it is really annoying. That's not the same as the obvious timing mistake to shoot your E while already being rooted. I doubt it is more than 0.000001% of all Cait players that profit from the possibility to slow enemies while being rooted -.- In fact her E is easier to counter than Tris' W besides being quicker imo. Now I am not that great a player but a few hundred Cait games over the seasons should be enough to get the timing mostly right. A fraction of that did the trick for Tris' W after all...
BakedLotion1 votesWe are indeed doing some work on Caitlyn as part of the pre-season's Marksmen update. None of her abilities are likely to change substantially. As many have mentioned she's fun and functional on Live. It's just hard to identify a situation when she's the right pick over other marksmen.
Here's the gist of the present direction, roughly ordered big to small in terms of where our changes are likely to focus:
- Hone Caitlyn's strategic identity as a siege/zone control-focused champion, likely by emphasizing her traps. Hone her thematic identity as a sharpshooter by emphasizing accuracy and range.
- Give a bit more depth to her playstyle, likely by emphasizing shot timing and target selection. You should know a person who has 30 games on Cait from one with 5. Add this depth through rewarding good planning and judgment, not pure mechanical skill.
- Retain/enhance her trademark safety, again likely through enhanced traps, in exchange for not being a great tank buster compared to less safe marksmen. Ensure she has access to offensive rewards should she trade in some of that safety, likely through 90 Caliber Net.
- Create limited windows of breathing room to her early pressure so that more champions, when properly played, can fight back against her laning phase. Use those windows to let us be comfortable with her being a potent lane bully.
Are you going to fix her auto attacks? They're currently extremely buggy and do damage at random times, whether its after the animation, or before it even starts.
HighH11 votesWe are indeed doing some work on Caitlyn as part of the pre-season's Marksmen update. None of her abilities are likely to change substantially. As many have mentioned she's fun and functional on Live. It's just hard to identify a situation when she's the right pick over other marksmen.
Here's the gist of the present direction, roughly ordered big to small in terms of where our changes are likely to focus:
- Hone Caitlyn's strategic identity as a siege/zone control-focused champion, likely by emphasizing her traps. Hone her thematic identity as a sharpshooter by emphasizing accuracy and range.
- Give a bit more depth to her playstyle, likely by emphasizing shot timing and target selection. You should know a person who has 30 games on Cait from one with 5. Add this depth through rewarding good planning and judgment, not pure mechanical skill.
- Retain/enhance her trademark safety, again likely through enhanced traps, in exchange for not being a great tank buster compared to less safe marksmen. Ensure she has access to offensive rewards should she trade in some of that safety, likely through 90 Caliber Net.
- Create limited windows of breathing room to her early pressure so that more champions, when properly played, can fight back against her laning phase. Use those windows to let us be comfortable with her being a potent lane bully.
A comment from CertainlyT on the LoL boards about a champion!?!?! What a time to be alive
Quil Evrything1 voteswaitwhut? Nooo dont touch her!! Seems like every time I find a champ that I can be happy with and settle down as main.. you guys change them.
I just recently found how good caitlyn can be. I'm loving her! My last four games with her:
10/3/13 9/3/5 4/6/12 (boo!) 11/2/19
please dont touch her range!! She's my favourite ADC because of it!!
luckmallory5 votesCaitlyn is definitely still a top tier pick at ADC.
There are tons of other marksmen that needs it way before her
Remlap12233 votesI think I saw Caitlyn in one LCS game this year, and she was pretty much relegated to an ult bot.
As much as I know that the Boards whining about Vayne is an extreme overreaction, it's not a good sign that Vayne is going positive against someone who's supposed to bully her out of lane effortlessly.
luckmallory1 votesLCS does not determine the strength of a champion. Your logic is like saying tryndamere needs massive buffs because he is never plays in the LCS
Jbels4 votesLCS does not determine the strength of a champion. Your logic is like saying tryndamere needs massive buffs because he is never plays in the LCS
Actually, the fact that it's being used at all in LCS is a pretty decent indicator. LCS teams play to win, they will use what is strong at the time to achieve that win.
luckmallory1 votesThis just simply is not true. Yes they use strong champions but their picks revolve around the rest of their teams picks. Who goes best in what comp? Which champions gel together the best. Again this logic is inherently flawed as Garen, Tryndamere, and Fiora are insanely strong right now and won't be picked in LCS. LCS is an extremely tiny pool. You don't balance the game based off of the .1 percent thats common sense.
Jbels3 votesThis just simply is not true. Yes they use strong champions but their picks revolve around the rest of their teams picks. Who goes best in what comp? Which champions gel together the best. Again this logic is inherently flawed as Garen, Tryndamere, and Fiora are insanely strong right now and won't be picked in LCS. LCS is an extremely tiny pool. You don't balance the game based off of the .1 percent thats common sense.
Champions being picked to fit a specific need for the team? Holy shit, that just goes against everything this team game is about. Atleast they GET roles! Galio has been left to rot for years now, getting ony a few small bones thrown to him once in a while
Wait what? Tryndamere is insanely strong? lol ok
A Miss Fortune4 votesNot really, Caitlyn's only strength is her range/self peel, which isn't anything insane either. If you don't get ahead with her, you fall to doing no damage since she only has one meh auto attack steroid and the rest of her kit forces her to remain immobile for the delay of the ability.
In all honesty with high ranged hypercarries like Jinx, Kog'Maw, and Tristana she doesn't really have any reason to be picked if you want to abuse her range. Miss Fortune, Ezreal, and Corki can all easy outtrade/outpoke Caitlyn too, not only that but they can all-in better. Caitlyn is just a really safe ADC but with champions like Vayne or Kalista who bring a new level to safety, she doesn't have much left.
luckmallory1 votesin today's meta, being safe as an ADC is all that matters and cait still dominates in that aspect which is why she is a top tier pick. Vayne is not "safe" while her kit does provide a lot more than caits, she has average auto attack range and gets wrecked by pinks. Her "safety" isn't her issue.
Kalista is cancer so i agree with you there. No ADC can position and dominate a bot lane more than cait if you are actually good. Your traps offer insane zoning with your range and long range Q with a low mana cost. Also your E almost promises you will get away from most ganks. Shes insanely safe and that is why she will always be a top tier pick with a high win rate
Remlap12233 votesin today's meta, being safe as an ADC is all that matters and cait still dominates in that aspect which is why she is a top tier pick. Vayne is not "safe" while her kit does provide a lot more than caits, she has average auto attack range and gets wrecked by pinks. Her "safety" isn't her issue.
Really? Like I said, Caitlyn is going negative against Vayne right now. So obviously she isn't as safe as she should be. Which makes sense, Caitlyn can't really hard engage, and even if she gets close to Vayne, she'll just knock her away with her E.
The point being that despite the fact that Caitlyn counters Vayne on paper, in practice she's going negative. So either Vayne is too powerful or Caitlyn is too weak (I agree with the latter rather than the former, but it's probably a little bit of both).
Your traps offer insane zoning with your range and long range Q with a low mana cost. Also your E almost promises you will get away from most ganks. Shes insanely safe and that is why she will always be a top tier pick with a high win rate.
What? Her Q costs 90 mana at level 9. That's her main damage source outside of her auto attacks. If you want to do any damage in teamfights, you have to constantly use that ability, which drains your mana really really quickly unless you're going blue build or some shit.
Her E only is a guaranteed self peel if she lands the net. All it takes is one minion to block it or for Sivir to spell sheild it and Cait's a sitting duck. Or you can simply tumble away as Vayne, or simply sidestep it as Miss Fortune with Strut maxed out. Any ADC worth their salt isn't going to give Caitlyn free poke. It's why Sona isn't considered God Tier just because her Q is overloaded, because most players are smart enough not to give them free poke. If Cait autos me to knock strut off, I'm going to go all in on her, and I'll either burst her down with an AA + Q combo, or just turn on my W and just chase her out of lane.
Oh, and as for her "high win rate" I guess 49.37% is considered a "high" win rate nowadays.
luckmallory1 votesAre people really this stupid are are you trolling? I honestly cannot tell.
Let me first point out that your first point is because vayne is game breakingly broken not because cait is weak.
At level 9 you are barely in the laning phase anymore. Level 1-7 maybe 8 is considered laning phase after that you should be roaming, grouping, getting objectives, etc. Therefore her mana cost doesn't matter. This also goes to show how much you know about cait if you think you use her Q at all during team fights. There is a reason people make the right click to win jokes about her. You don't use abilities at all except for E. It doesn't matter if she hits the slow, the knockback is what makes her safe. If she E's and say sivir spellshields it, she is still 1000 or so range away, so congrats mate, you dont have 1000 range.
Caitly ndoesn't care if you get take her poke, if she is forcing you to play back and cs under tower, she did her job as the lane bully. She will out level and out CS you. The only way to not take her poke is to stay away from minions as her auto attack range is 100 longer than most ADC's so she can walk up and auto you from behind her minions and you can't retaliate unless you walk towards her and all she has to do is orb walk your ass at that point.
"If Cait autos me to knock strut off, I'm going to go all in on her, and I'll either burst her down with an AA + Q combo, or just turn on my W and just chase her out of lane."
I read this and said to myself "there is just no way anyone is this stupid." so i proceeded to look you up and low and behold Bronze 1. It all makes sense now. "ill just go all in on her and chase her out of lane". Welcome to league of retards where cait no longer has 100 more range than MF, a knockback with a slow, a support, and minion aggro doesn't exist.
I have literally no clue where you got those numbers because cait's win rate in general is 50.04 percent. In plat it is 51.2 percent and diamond currently it is 50.2 but peaked last week at 56 percent for 2 days. To give you a comparison, ezreal sits at 48, corki at 49, graves at 49.5, kog at 50, lucian at 47, MF at 49, quinn at 48, tristana at 48, twitch at 47, urgot at 46, varus at 49, and kalista at 47.
http://www.lolking.net/champions/
Literally pick any ADC you want and anyone you want to support you and i will pick cait with my support of choice and i will dumpster you. I promise
Remlap12237 votesAh yes, "my argument is more valid because I am platinum". If I had 1 RP every time I heard that one.
I would also like to point out that rank only matters to you when it furthers your own argument:
LCS does not determine the strength of a champion. Your logic is like saying tryndamere needs massive buffs because he is never plays in the LCS
And then you proceed to backpedal and say stupid shit like this.
I read this and said to myself "there is just no way anyone is this stupid." so i proceeded to look you up and low and behold Bronze 1. It all makes sense now. "ill just go all in on her and chase her out of lane". Welcome to league of retards where cait no longer has 100 more range than MF, a knockback with a slow, a support, and minion aggro doesn't exist.
Here are your choices:
All of the above is not an option.
I bet you're the type of person that thinks Platinum is the best rank because Bronze are retards, Silvers have no mechanical skill, Gold players got carried, and Diamond+ abuses freelo. (Even though you're only Gold 2 right now.)
Now onto a logical arugment. I am a Miss Fortune main. My ranked win rate with her is 55%, and peaked at around 63%. However, I no longer play ranked because of assholes like you who treat a border like it's the word of Christ, and because I value my sanity.
I can wreck pretty much every carry with the exception of Corki and Tristana for obvious reasons. Caitlyn is not a counterpick, she goes shockingly even with MF in lane. I know that you probably don't see MF in Plat+, but a player of your "skill" level should understand that MF is a lane bully too. She outbursts and outtrades Caitlyn, and the only thing Caitlyn has going for her against MF is her range bonus to knock off her passive so she can kite her effectively. In no scenario does Caitlyn ever outdamage Miss Fortune, or any other ADC for that matter. It's all about whether or not you damage them enough with your skills and long range pot shots. If you do, congrats, you either bully them out of lane, or they go in on you, and you kite them to death. If you didn't, well shit, Tristana and Miss Fortune just got up in your face and burst you down.
Also, I'm taking a look at your match history, and you BARELY have played ADC. The two matches that I see first off are you fed as Tristana (against a Lucian? Holy shit.) with a 0.5 KDR. Second game you went 10/9 as Corki and still lost.
Now, I haven't played a whole lot of ranked lately (because there's no goddamn point since I won't be able to get rewards this season) but out of the last literally ten games I've played, the lowest KDR I've gotten is a 1.12, with an average of 2, and going perfect in at least one game.
And before you go "MUH WINRATE" you have five games with Tristana and three with Corki. I have 53 with Miss Fortune in ranked this year alone. I have a much more reliable data set than you do.
You done? Or do you want me to continue shooting your argument to pieces?
