"Nerfing Yi in ways that help those who don't know how to counter him"

The Ecdysiast··17 votes·7,771 views

So, apparently what that looks like is 3 buffs:

One that gives 75% extra damage to his Q damage and makes him able to instantly stack Conqueror if you're away from a minion wave, (My bad. Luckily they didn't pull that bullshit.) One that makes his already too easy to use W even easier, And a third that makes his already immune to slows MS even faster.

In exchange for a nerf that means less than it ever would have in the past because Yi's build has less AD than it ever has.

So according to whoever writes the descriptions for the changes, between 7 - 26 AD was something people just didn't know how to counter, and removing that alone was justification enough for almost doubling his Q damage and adding 10%MS to his ultimate. Riiiight.

Or better yet, Guinsoo's getting buffed early - mid in exchange for making it actually function fairly with his passive.

And we'll just completely ignore the fact he's had a stable performance at higher levels of play for quite some time, despite their case that only people who don't know how to play against him lose to him. It's almost like he's a champion that's incredibly easy to master and so shouldn't see win rates of 52%+ in high levels of play.

It's so, so odd that the balance team will sometimes buff a champion's Q because their E is being focused-- and admit no fault when they end up having to nerf the actual problem--, but they'll also overcompensate fair nerfs with huge buffs. Sometimes it feels like the balance team gives the reigns to completely new employees.

27 Comments

AmetDeCrypt8 votes

if I were a crooked balance team employee I'd be chasing that freelo too [poppy-wink]

wolvius6 votes

Just going to say he doesn't instantly stack conqueror with Q now, its still one stack no matter how many champs it hits. Guinsoos while it did get a buff to penetration the reason Yi got it was for the bullshit interaction it had with passive and true damage schist.

It was more of a power rebalance to try and make him better in higher elos for their 50% fetish without screwing over low elo (still a failure)

That W change is stupid it was already a AA reset why the F make it instant.

Monstermushmush2 votes

{quoted}

Just going to say he doesn't instantly stack conqueror with Q now, its still one stack no matter how many champs it hits. Guinsoos while it did get a buff to penetration the reason Yi got it was for the bullshit interaction it had with passive and true damage schist.

It was more of a power rebalance to try and make him better in higher elos for their 50% fetish without screwing over low elo (still a failure)

That W change is stupid it was already a AA reset why the F make it instant.

I agree with all you said, but the W in the past was already nearly instant.

Salron6 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEyqHNPN,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-16T08:16:13.854+0000) And we'll just completely ignore the fact he's had a stable performance at higher levels of play for quite some time, despite their case that only people who don't know how to play against him lose to him. It's almost like he's a champion that's incredibly easy to master and so shouldn't see win rates of 52%+ in high levels of play.

His winrate went down in high levels of play You do realize that right? compare 9.9 vs 9.10 stats https://u.gg/lol/champions/masteryi/build

Mr Bob Boberson3 votes

His winrate went down in high levels of play You do realize that right? compare 9.9 vs 9.10 stats https://u.gg/lol/champions/masteryi/build

Because I guess the fact that the patch has only been out for two days doesn't matter

Thefrostyviking7 votes

Doesnt that mean commenting on his state as OP did is pretty ridiculous too?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Not exactly. It's an inarguable fact that the changes to Yi were a net buff.

What time with the changes will tell is whether or not the change to Guinsoo's will impact him. But in that same vein, we needed that time before compensation buffs.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

How is it inarguable when he lost attackspeed on his ult as well as AD on his E?

He basically traded their consistent power for more on his Q, and that thing is pretty dang awful when it comes to teamfighting as it does very little single target if other targets are present.

Well his W got some minor buff too i suppose.

Meanwhile attackspeed and AD are consistently powerful at all times

Then we can talk about losing the rageblade build.

"Edit"

Didnt read patchnotes properly, on PBE they first removed attackspeed on ult but on live its instead a movespeed buff.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

He didn't lose AS on his ult. So...

Annd I spelled it out in the OP the AD he "lost" was between 7 and 26 from levels 3 - 18.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

ah right they only ~~removed ~~ changed? movespeed, was attackspeed as well on the PBE.

But 10% AD while E is down is still pretty tough, and rageblade nerf hits home as well.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Buffed. The word you're looking for is buffed. It was 10% increase to MS at all ranks. With no compensating nerf.

Oh, and I was incorrect in Yi's favor. It was actually only 15 AD at full build that he lost.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Yup. Buffed so hard his winrate dropped.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Too soon to tell, like I explained to someone else.

Salron2 votes

16000 games is quite a good sample size

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Not really. Not for this kind of test.

16,000 games where the changes are brand new is no different from 100 games. Because testing these changes requires repetition playing with and against them.

Ragnaveil4 votes

People honestly thought his Q would be batshit broken with the instacast and multiple hits. Each Q hit after the first does 25%, not 25% increased damage. Yi's actually more tolerable now compared to then. If a Yi rushes Rageblade first or second item, they are practically trolling even though it boosts his auto passive.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

My bad, it's not double. But it is 75% extra damage. They might as well have given it 75% extra scaling on a single target. It would've had the same effect damage-wise. But instead they also increased the time he's untargetable by the same amount.

Do explain why he's more tolerable. You made the claim with no explanation.

Agent1091 votes

Honestly old Fiora's Blade Waltz had kind of the same interaction except she had subsequent damage hit reduction.... Yi should have the same.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

No, he should have its old functionality. There's no reason for multiple hits or any bonus damage. If you screw up by Q'ing when it'll only hit one target, you should be punished. What they've done is add a reward to using the ability wrong.

GripaAviara5 votes

Yi is simply broken as a champion.

Sure, you keep him in check with good team play. Good luck finding that in lower levels of soloq

Ackelope4 votes

The Q change does not allow him to get 4 stacks of conq against a solitary target, since it's only one ability cast hitting multiple times. Only applies one stack, even if all 4 strikes hit one champion.

The W change does almost nothing for most cases of using the W. It prevents a few of those oddball scenarios where Yi would have died because the damage reduction didn't kick in in time, so it definitely is a buff because it prevents those, but I imagine it'll be barely felt by anyone other than the Yi players, since it was a fringe case.

The ultimate change makes him faster when he has no movement speed buffs, but if he has something like a kayle or zilean on his team, or he decides to pick up some active items to make him faster, he'll be about even if not slower than he was before. Yi doesn't usually pick up these items, so I'd say it's a net buff, especially earlier in the game.

The bit you seemed to gloss over in this is the fact that guinsoo's was changed to have its phantom hit occur every 3 autos instead of every 2. The compensation change that gives increased magic pen and armor pen early barely helps Yi, since he does almost no magic damage as it is, and isn't nearly as reliant on armor pen as most champions, due to his high true damage output.

Another bit you seemed to miss is that, while Yi maintains a pretty respectable winrate in higher elos, it's at a lower pickrate, and his winrate is in the 49-50% range in lower elos.

I don't think Yi is a problem at all, and I sincerely doubt these changes will push him over the edge, considering he was in a fairly balanced spot before, outside of pro play. (if anything, the dynamic change to his Q is more of a push towards pro presence, as it gives him some great potential options for early dueling and dueling in general)

GodlyBane4 votes

Yi cant build RB anymore so it was compensation buffs, which he needed

The thigh guy3 votes

The only counterplay to yi is hope your team can deal with him. One person by themselves cannot deal with him, other than maybe Jax.

Saezio2 votes

If you have any good CC support like Ali Rakan Nautilus in your team they just invalidate yi by themselves as long as the rest of the team are not morons. Also, in a splitpush scenario, most bruisers will decimate him, and even more now without the true damage rageblade build.

But he is easy to play so in low levels of play he has more agency. Also, if you 3buff him with any of the current meta junglers he becomes a non-factor for like 10 minutes, but again, kinda hard to do with morons in the team.

Thefrostyviking3 votes

Problem was exactly that Yi was stable, stably good in high elo.

Which is a place he should not have been good in due to his very design, same as AD shyv really.

His true damage+max HP damage+5 + sky high attackspeed made him ridiculously overpowered even when he shouldnt be, and the only one who could bet him at all ever was Jax.

Itemization? He had no counter items.

Counterpicks? Taric&those with instant CC and ability to chain CC to keep him stunned to death.

Now he does at least get countered by armor, he doesnt have as much sustain, and less max HP damage.

Q damage on a isolated target is brutal though.

Ahri Baka1 votes

The changes were supposed to be buffs tho Also , there is a small nerf for it , his W makes him invisible for a bit too long against an enemy that used Zhonia

XeroKimo1 votes

TMW master yi's Q now is basically Fiora's old ult, but better, because it can crit, and is not limited to just champions, and has a shorter cooldown, which can be reduced by AAs, though I really do still miss Fiora's old ult, at least now it lives again.... in master yi

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