You know how you can tone down damage, CC, and mobility in one fair swoop?

HateDaddy·Apr 28, 2019·103 votes·21,240 views

Reduce CDR across the board so summoners rift can stop trying to evolve into URF.

The biggest problem in this game is how easily acquired CDR is. It doesn’t even have to be 40%, though most champions end up achieving it save for ADCs (and even then many of them end up getting around 10-20%).

Make the game have cooldowns again, and many of the complaints you have would diminish quickly (of course we’d still complain about the sky being blue, oxygen and the fact that hydroxytryptamine is a word, but my point still stands).

117 Comments

Feel ApathyApr 28, 201960 votes

Riven but my 2 item 45% cdr is completely balanced.

DedenneApr 28, 201920 votes

U need 2 items to reach max? Wow ur bad!

AceAlex031Apr 29, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Feel Apathy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEoybbM3,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-28T16:59:45.894+0000)

but my 2 item 45% cdr is completely balanced.

Ya and my 4 dashes are even more balanced with that

BârdApr 30, 20191 votes

4 dashes are fine. It's been balanced before.

4 dashes with 0 downtime because 45% CDR + item 3161 are very much not fine.

MarshbouyApr 28, 201939 votes

Riot's goal with increasing CDR was to tone down damage and make fights more engaging by requiring the use of multiple spell rotatiosn (in a shorter period of time) to kill someone.

As we all know, this isn't how it happened. They either need to commit to this idea and reduce damage, or revert CDR levels back to previous amounts so you actually have to design a build path around CDR isntead of reaching 30-40% from 3 items.

LordGeovanniApr 28, 20194 votes

But then All the Mage mains on the boards will come out and talk about how trash it feels to not one shot everything and adcs mains will be right behind them because they play mages secondary.

Boo Koo GodApr 28, 201913 votes

Really as a mage player all I dislike is the mobility that other champs have while I do not have any. Playing some mages there is no option to run when every champ played can go through walls lol.

LordGeovanniApr 28, 20197 votes

As a fighter main I dislike that and that i cant blow up people from a screen and a half away and get 10% free movement speed on 60 ad/ 90 ap item with also stats and item effects a bruiser would use and get heavy cc from a screen an a half away to help me with both chasing and self peel.

NineTailedMysticApr 29, 20192 votes

Less CDR means either building to one shot, or building to have multiple rotations. A good design paradigm.

LordGeovanniApr 30, 20191 votes

it is but the majority of mage mages dont care becuse they already have both they dont want to give up either (or the massive hp buffs they got in season 4 and 5)

ShiroyashayamiApr 30, 20191 votes

You know that achieving 40-45% cdr was basically one possible for mages? The point is that ad, tanks and almost everything else can get 40-45% now after 2 items. Riven is the best example.

LordGeovanniMay 6, 20191 votes

Not true Mages just had to sacrifice damage to get cdr the same choice any other class had to make until riot changed that late season 4 early season 5 then mages could build top damage items with cdr on them. Mages should not be able to acheive 40% cdr while still having over 700 ap. Fighters have to trade damage for less than worth health on their items especially black cleaver. Tanks have items that are innately not worth as much as damage on top of having a cheaper final build as a way to limit the effectiveness. Riven is a bad example for anything because she is broken. Black cleaver is also broken and needs less penetration and more ad.

Best Ekko NAApr 29, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Riot's goal with increasing CDR was to tone down damage and make fights more engaging by requiring the use of multiple spell rotatiosn (in a shorter period of time) to kill someone.

As we all know, this isn't how it happened. They either need to commit to this idea and reduce damage, or revert CDR levels back to previous amounts so you actually have to design a build path around CDR isntead of reaching 30-40% from 3 items.

3 items? You can do it with only two items. lol

item 3285 item 3078 item 3071 item 3161 item 3115 item 3025 item 3110 item 3508

LordGeovanniApr 30, 20191 votes

you can but it isnt realistic. Even if you could build 2 of these items in the same build in no build is it good to build any combination of these items one after another. or before 4 items including boots. the most realistic combo is item 3003 item 3115 then item 3078 / item 3071 and item 3025 / item 3110 and still only the ap one can be a first build

LordGeovanniApr 28, 201920 votes

This doesnt stop adcs from critting people to death in less than 3 seconds or the on hit build for the same time. Mages were buffed to keep up with that and adcs buffed to keep up with mages who were overbuffed and the cycle continues.

Icy Hot ShotoApr 28, 20191 votes

Pretty sure the game just keeps getting buffed because pro play was "boring to watch when a game could be an hour long" and because most the chinese players have to pay per hour at an internet cafe so they "need shorter matches so they can play more and pay less".

LordGeovanniApr 28, 20195 votes

They are boring to watch now. Much better watching Skill match ups than my skills have negliable down time so better throw it out as often as possible. and no fighter can ever get to me but on the off chance one does i have enough damage and life steal to stand in one place use my mobility spell to dodge a cc and stand in one place again to drain tank them better than they can do to me.

SaiannaApr 28, 20194 votes

Mages weren't really all that buffed. They got beefier. Riot noticed that if Mages were to keep their old itemization, which made them squishy, they'd evaporate too quickly, so they added lots of bonus health on mage items to make this illusion they can keep up with ADCs. But damage-wise Mages hadn't had huge improvements. Just your everyday powercreep creeping in, but that's all.

LTK KoRoApr 29, 20192 votes

mages didn't had any improvements because their damage is ridiculous since s1

LordGeovanniMay 6, 20191 votes

Mages got Hp buffs AP nerfs and cooldown buffs. adcs got ad and hp buffs Magic resist armor and hp across the board except for mages and adcs got nerfed then mages got ap buffs and cdr buffs and item 3027 was buffed to give 500 hp and 100 ap instead of 350 hp and 80 ap adcs were buffed with attack speed and crit adcs were nerfed with attack speed armor got buffs armor got nerfs armor got buffs and hp got nerfs. Etc its hard to rememember everything from the end of season 3 to date.

Moody PApr 28, 201917 votes

That's a funny way to spell delete mages

HateDaddyApr 28, 201919 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEoybbM3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-28T16:14:29.162+0000)

That's a funny way to spell delete mages

Oh turn on google translate, I did say it but it’s just in Spanish

Sir SaltarinApr 28, 20194 votes

Esa es una forma graciosa de deletrear "borrad a los magos"

I mean I wasn't sure on the "delete mages" because actually saying "borrar magos" wouldn't make sense without the "a" preposition, other way would be using the imperative "borrad magos" or "borrad a los magos" as if it was a demmand

Now other thing, someone shared with me this image, can you tell me if it is a coarse way to present it or if it's seen like that when you have to learn spanish ?

https://notebloc.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/img_1106.jpg

abca98Apr 28, 20191 votes

Me ha dado dolor de cabeza y soy español.

Sir SaltarinApr 28, 20192 votes

Ya, los usas de forma ordinaria y no te das cuenta pero si te pones a contarlos todos es una locura, y eso con todos los verbos

HateDaddyApr 28, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEoybbM3,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-28T19:02:40.780+0000)

Esa es una forma graciosa de deletrear "borrad a los magos"

I mean I wasn't sure on the "delete mages" because actually saying "borrar magos" wouldn't make sense without the "a" preposition, other way would be using the imperative "borrad magos" or "borrad a los magos" as if it was a demmand

Now other thing, someone shared with me this image, can you tell me if it is a coarse way to present it or if it's seen like that when you have to learn spanish ?

https://notebloc.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/img_1106.jpg

I’ve seen it but no, I was never taught like that. It’s largely unfair to make this comparison too since:

Spanish tenses are much more distinguishable from each other than English tenses are

Spanish places a huge emphasis on subjective tenses, English does not. And English subjunctive is largely used for hypothetical situations and some fringe cases whereas Spanish uses it to express doubt/uncertainty in all tenses, emotion, hypothetical situations, formal and informal commands (both affirmative and negative), etc.

So if you added this in and consider English imperfect is used with “used to + infinitive” and conditional uses would/would not + infinitive, you’d have roughly the same amount of conjugations. Also, as we both know, the verbs if hacer and to do/to make have thousands of meanings in their languages respectively. I really don’t even know what point I was trying to make anymore, so we will just go with:

Borra a los magos para siempre. Además, da los “buffs” a Nasus, Jax, Cho’Gath, Vladimir, y cada campeón con que juego. Gracias. ¡Tenga un buen día!

Hayaishi2Apr 28, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEoybbM3,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-28T19:02:40.780+0000)

Esa es una forma graciosa de deletrear "borrad a los magos"

I mean I wasn't sure on the "delete mages" because actually saying "borrar magos" wouldn't make sense without the "a" preposition, other way would be using the imperative "borrad magos" or "borrad a los magos" as if it was a demmand

Now other thing, someone shared with me this image, can you tell me if it is a coarse way to present it or if it's seen like that when you have to learn spanish ?

https://notebloc.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/img_1106.jpg

Yes conjugations in spanish are complicated. But that image has some unused conjugations which are only used in some countries.

Sir SaltarinApr 29, 20191 votes

Are you sure about that?

At least in Spain we use all those conjugations, some are more used than others but everyone knows them all for all the verbs basically

Hayaishi2Apr 29, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEoybbM3,comment-id=00000000000000020000,timestamp=2019-04-29T00:14:23.167+0000)

Are you sure about that?

At least in Spain we use all those conjugations, some are more used than others but everyone knows them all for all the verbs basically

In latin american we don't use "haceis" "haced" for example.

Sir SaltarinApr 29, 20191 votes

Entonces no teneis el imperativo o lo usáis de otra forma?

O cómo lo usáis exactamente, la verdad es que yo no he estado en latinoamérica aun.

Hayaishi2Apr 29, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEoybbM3,comment-id=0000000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-29T10:08:46.686+0000)

Entonces no teneis el imperativo o lo usáis de otra forma?

O cómo lo usáis exactamente, la verdad es que yo no he estado en latinoamérica aun.

Si alguien dijera tu oracion en latinoamerica la dijera de la siguiente forma

"Entonces ustedes no tienen el imperativo o lo usan de otra forma

O como lo usan exactamente, la verdad es que yo no he estado en latinoamerica aun"

No usamos "teneis" o "usais" usamos "tienen o tienes" y "usan o usas" dependiendo de si es plural o singular.

Done25Apr 28, 201918 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEoybbM3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-28T16:14:29.162+0000)

That's a funny way to spell delete mages

Most mages rush magic pen anyways.

letsfeedtogetherApr 28, 20195 votes

Yes. But most/all mages in mid lane go for 40% cdr

Well CauseApr 28, 20194 votes

Yeah you mean 2 or 3 at most :)

letsfeedtogetherApr 28, 20195 votes

Leblanc Annie Ahri Lux Anivia Orianna Kassadin Fizz Vladimir Zoe Ryze Morgana Ekko Heimerdinger Malzahar Ryze Xerath Veigar Velkoz Viktor Syndra Ziggs TwistedFate and more

IonianBladeApr 28, 20192 votes

Actually most mages I see don't run MagPen a lot due to the lack of people wanting to run tanks recently. I mean other than maybe the occasional Darius

SucctionApr 28, 201914 votes

{quoted}

Actually most mages I see don't run MagPen a lot due to the lack of people wanting to run tanks recently. I mean other than maybe the occasional

If you're running magic penetration into tanks, you're doing the exact opposite of what you should be doing.

Flat pen is horrible against any more than base resistances. Against tanks, you should be stacking AP and CDR, and throwing in a Void and Liandry

AlzonApr 28, 20193 votes

I remember seeing somewhere that as long as you have Void Staff, double flat pen is still efficient against anything with less than 200 MR.

AIQApr 29, 20193 votes

No at 200 MR it's reducing it by 80. Two 15 pen items are 30. So anything below 75 is worse than having two pen items.

If we just flat out assume you will be getting boots with +15 than that number changes as Morrellos is the only pen option. Meaning any target under 55 MR is better to not get void. because the break point is 40 MR for 1 items and Sorc boots give 15.

SOOOOOO in short. If they have more targets with more than 55 MR as a whole get Void.

BECAUSE MATH!

(this does not take into consideration cost and GW, Morellos into Mundo is a must.)

Actual numbers item 3165 -15 MR item 3020 -15 MR item 3135 -16 MR at 40 MR / - 32 at 80 / -40 at 100/ -80 at 200

AlzonApr 29, 20191 votes

I’m talking about what happens if you stack Void Staff with flat pen. Now I imagine it varies by champion based on base damage vs AP ratios, but I was talking about how efficient the flat pen is versus going for higher AP instead once you get Void Staff. Fully-stacked mpen reduces 200 MR to 87, which is a loss of effective HP equal to 113% of (max HP + shields + any healing).

AIQApr 29, 20192 votes

Gotcha, well some champions (using all abilities) go well over 100% utilization of AP, but we'll do that just because.... simplicity and to get a base line. Morrelos and void offers 70 AP for 140 total. Sorc obviously offers none.

So we have the 40%/+30

At 140 AP, I think it's obvious having the pen is better at ALL MRs so lets ignore that.

FYI MR/ARM is calculated by Resist/(Resist+100) So for 100 MR 50/50+100 = 33%

If the pen items are all a person has then.

Resist -(void) -flat = damage done

50 MR -(20) -30 = 140 damage, True damage 100 MR -(40)-30 = 107.7 damage 200 MR -(80)-30 = 73

Lets start low at 200 AP (No pen) 50 MR = 200-33% = 133 100 MR = 200-50% = 100 200 MR = 200-66% = 67

So at 200 AP you are less effective than a full pen build at all times despite having less AP.

The break point however is not far. At 225 AP we are already more effective than a full pen build. 50 MR = 225-33% = 151 100 MR = 225-50% = 112.5 200 MR = 225-66% = 76.5

While 225 does instantly surpass a full pen build, the only factors to truly consider are cost/AP ratios. If your AP ratios are lower than 100% combined on a rotation than you must have even more AP than this to break even. (and get that juicy +3.5 damage on a target with 200 MR) Cost will bite you though, Sorc immediately make it to where getting three other items is just worse.

And then getting a Rabs or something AP heavy on the pen build makes the numbers skew heavily to the pen build.

Lets do that in the 225 AP vs 140 AP +Pen and add Rabs.

140AP+ Rabs = 364 (PEN) 50 MR -(20) -30 = 364 damage, True damage 100 MR -(40)-30 = 280 damage 200 MR -(80)-30 = 191.57

225AP+ Rabs = 483 50 MR = 483-33% = 323.6 100 MR = 483-50% = 241.5 200 MR = 483-66% = 164.22

So in general while you may get +11 damage on a 3 item full ap build against pen at 225 AP. It's probably still better to get void since afterwards the Pen build still wins vs AP even despite having 120 more at ~4 items worth of AP at all stages.

This is by no means law for every game, a 50 MR target is most effectively taken care of with 2 flat items and a bunch of AP. I was just putting them against each other with out crossing. It would get way to complicated.

LordGeovanniMay 6, 20191 votes

item 3020 -18 mr

item 3001 is effective pen item 3151 is effective pen worded diffrently

KaishaApr 28, 201915 votes

Delete the game? At this point that's the only thing that'll fix it.

Minimac2000Apr 28, 201913 votes

No, this doesn't fix anything. Yes cdr is too high, but everything kills in one rotation off of one cc anyway so reducing CDr and doing nothing about the actual damage problem doesn't help.

PaletongueApr 29, 20191 votes

While I mostly agree with you, it does partially fix exactly the issue you named.

If cooldowns are higher, it's more punishing to miss CC, and the enemies have twice the time to react when you do miss CC. Windows of power and vulnerability is something Riot talks about, but we don't get to feel much because of how quickly spells can be cast.

BoltonatorApr 28, 20199 votes

Revert the damage champions are dealing first then ill agree on reducing cdr from items.

This Is Your DadApr 28, 20199 votes

Downvoted you for your username. I've been a good father.

HateDaddyApr 28, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=This Is Your Dad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEoybbM3,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-04-28T19:17:15.518+0000)

Downvoted you for your username. I've been a good father.

DON’T TELL ME WHAT TO DO DAD

JuiceBoxPApr 28, 20197 votes

Lols, ever played a lux + (insert any other mage name here) bot lane?

This is like playing dodgeball

SaiannaApr 28, 20195 votes

I'm sorry but I kind of disagree with it for one particullar reason: Mages

Nerfing CDR for mages would be like halving the crit damage for ADC. If anything CDR was the main stat for mages and maybe tanks, while rest of classes got it because of powercreep. Neft CDR for other classes, or create some way for mages to get their spells of CD by other means than CDR.