"more champions are viable in the jungle, it's for the best"
"sorry that junglers are no longer allowed to be the only deciding factor in games"
"jungle players will adapt to the changes and move on or they will find a new role to play"
or, even worse
"jungle players are whiny bitches and deserve their role getting gutted"
Moody P11 votesBut its the opposite, There's fewer jungle picks now
They're still too influential
Correct
Correct
Marshbouy5 votesBut its the opposite, There's fewer jungle picks now
thatsthepoint.jpg
Bears Dont Care3 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEhpLgZt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-28T19:16:43.914+0000)
But its the opposite, There's fewer jungle picks now
Some believe otherwise.
They're still too influential
It is impossible to not have jungle be influential. The way it plays means the jungler is most relevant before laning phase ends. That is impossible to change jnless you made it a carry role focused on gold and exp gains.
Correct
Correct
Such irony.
GayFluffyUnicorn3 votesLol it's not impossible you just need to actually start nerfing that fuckin role.
It's insane how little a jungler actually has to do to get control over the busted drakes, can influence the entire map, always be full mana and full health and has to mechanically outplay AI camps every two minutes for VERY good XP and gold gains considering what you have to do for it.
There just needs to be a tradeoff. Rn jungle gets everything and more for very little you actually have to do and know.
heroikc1 votesLol it's not impossible you just need to actually start nerfing that fuckin role.
It's insane how little a jungler actually has to do to get control over the busted drakes, can influence the entire map, always be full mana and full health and has to mechanically outplay AI camps every two minutes for VERY good XP and gold gains considering what you have to do for it.
There just needs to be a tradeoff. Rn jungle gets everything and more for very little you actually have to do and know.
I'd advocate for delaying the junglers' early levels, myself. Slow them down.
Andrex25005 votesEven more? We are usually behing 2 levels from solo laners unless we get a lead. LOL
Tim From Work3 votesOnce upon a time junglers struggled to gank or even clear their own jg without having to back at least once (save for a select few who had insane sustain like Warwick) I think going back that route and giving the junglers back some xp or camp spawn time would be a route to explore
Paroe3 votes[{quoted}](name=Emotional Dad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEhpLgZt,comment-id=00010001000100000001,timestamp=2019-03-29T03:31:10.011+0000)
Once upon a time junglers struggled to gank or even clear their own jg without having to back at least once (save for a select few who had insane sustain like Warwick) I think going back that route and giving the junglers back some xp or camp spawn time would be a route to explore
Alternately you could give 
back its individual regen, which would increase jungle diversity by allowing MANY more champions to sustain properly.
Tim From Work1 votesI don’t think that changes early jungle pressure which has been the problem many people have had with jungle for some time now, I don’t think my idea exactly solves the problem as you could say well if the early jungle is harder early game junglers will be better still cause they can invade the other jungler better, but it could be more risky for them if they weren’t always at full hp where a farming jungler or certain tanks like having some time to farm (even if the camps are a little more punishing but give a bigger reward) there’s flaws for sure but I don’t think junglers like the current jg too much and I know laners don’t like the influence a good jungle has over the early portion of the game so my thought is to delay when they can impact the early game through their hp bar not forcing them to possibly interact over a neutral objective that also has a large impact on lane tempo
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Emotional Dad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEhpLgZt,comment-id=0001000100010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-29T05:08:36.520+0000)
I don’t think that changes early jungle pressure which has been the problem many people have had with jungle for some time now, I don’t think my idea exactly solves the problem as you could say well if the early jungle is harder early game junglers will be better still cause they can invade the other jungler better, but it could be more risky for them if they weren’t always at full hp where a farming jungler or certain tanks like having some time to farm (even if the camps are a little more punishing but give a bigger reward) there’s flaws for sure but I don’t think junglers like the current jg too much and I know laners don’t like the influence a good jungle has over the early portion of the game so my thought is to delay when they can impact the early game through their hp bar not forcing them to possibly interact over a neutral objective that also has a large impact on lane tempo
The strongest ganky junglers would still be there, but by giving talisman back its sustain for AoE the pool of viable junglers would increase dramatically from high powered level 2-3 gankers with either jungle kits like Elise or super high damage like lee sin to a much broader pool consisting of lower damage but higher utility champions like 
and 
Bears Dont Care4 votesLol it's not impossible you just need to actually start nerfing that fuckin role.
Okay. Hiw?
It's insane how little a jungler actually has to do to get control over the busted drakes, can influence the entire map, always be full mana and full health and has to mechanically outplay AI camps every two minutes for VERY good XP and gold gains considering what you have to do for it.
The gold and exp id slughtly ahead of a support so ulu are factually wrong. Dragon and rift herald control cannkt be established without their assistance. If bot loses and cannot remain in lane. Drake control is lost.
Jungle is a powerful role, but it relies on the other roles to create its influence.
There just needs to be a tradeoff. Rn jungle gets everything and more for very little you actually have to do and know. Good joke.
Tr4shB4NSYST3M11 votesExcept the first part is blatantly wrong, the viable jungle pool has gotten way smaller.
Jungle was never "the only deciding factor" (as adc wasn't either) but both had WAY more agency and ability to influence a game before the changes (as adc's do again after the crit rework/revert)
Jungle players are adapting, finding the most efficient pathing, prioritizing jg champs that can lvl 2/lvl 3 gank (since after those levels theyre gonna be 2-3 lvls below solo laners for the rest of the game) or just flat out quitting jungle as evidenced by the big uptick in people getting autofilled to jg.
And on the last one, there are a lot of idiots who have probably almost never played jungle saying that crap and they are in fact morons.
karolmo7 votesExcept the first part is blatantly wrong, the viable jungle pool has gotten way smaller.
You mean the same thing that happened when the only viable adc picks were bruisers and no actual adc was close to viable? Damn.
heroikc3 votesYou mean the same thing that happened when the only viable adc picks were bruisers and no actual adc was close to viable? Damn.
Actually, those are too different cases; in the case of ADCs, it's more the pool shifted in a different direction, favoring fighters who can tank as much as tanks and damage as much as most marksmen. In the case of jungle, the pool plain shrunk, with many regular junglers either no longer viable or reduced to niche roles, all while exasperating the issue of early gankers.
DiscWizard12 votesno, in 8.4-8.5 there were at least 8 viable botlane champions competetivley. in general there is 3-4 in the jungle, and its been that way for almost 3 years. The only time jungle seemed okay was in 8.3 pre scuttle, where a lost of champs could play jg and gank at 3 dude to camp buff camp clear, however, they generally were constrained to mere warding as tackers knife still existed and ganking was practically impossible once the other jg got one.
Sir Saltarin1 votesin general there is 3-4 in the jungle [viable picks]
Really, so now there are only 3-4 viable junglers or is that you are overreacting, tell me which 4 please.
LeBlanc Rose1 votesAt the moment, there are 9 S tier junglers. This list includes tanks, divers, assassins, hypercarries, and bruisers. Another 11 champions are in A tier, featuring mages, duelists, supports, and adcs as well.
Sir Saltarin11 votesI think that Jungler mains have all the right to complain, but it's really interesting how some of them reacted when other roles complained.
Marshbouy4 votesoh I totally agree. I think a lack of empathy is the issue. I feel for jungle mains because their role was messed with and they're clearly hurting, but how many felt for ADC mains when their role was straight gutted?
Frog goes moo4 votesoh I totally agree. I think a lack of empathy is the issue. I feel for jungle mains because their role was messed with and they're clearly hurting, but how many felt for ADC mains when their role was straight gutted?
adc was never gutted. The champions remained being played bot lane. Even amidst the double melee bot and the ap carries bot lane, their playrates were still incredibly high. Just as a refresher, This is one of the adc's, jinx's, winrate and playrate before the item rework in 9.3. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Jinx/ADC/ this is draven's https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Draven/ADC/ I can give more examples for you if you'd like. Just ask me. The reason why there's such a meme that adcs are whiney, is because no matter what meta it is, they're always vital and necessary to the team. Their class, not including mages, are the second most flexed role wise so they're a pretty viable class. Most of the "adcs feel like they have no agency" was greatly over-exaggerated. They felt mediocre at the least, but most definitely weren't hit as hard as the jungle. Even now, there are still less posts and complaints about the jungle than there were when the adcs were allegedly "too weak."
On the upside, one of my favorite champs, ivern is S tier now due to the way his playstyle benefits from rubberbanding exp.
SovereignMammal2 votesI'm sick of people propagating this flat out lie. ADC's remained in bot lane because that's the only lane most ADC's can actually be played. It had nothing to do with them still being viable picks.
With the exception of Lucian, Ezreal, and MF ADC's were trash tier champions. Picking a crit ADC was basically shooting yourself in the foot. You were forced into buying that stupid fucking Stormrazor so you had even the smallest iota of surviving early and mid game, and games were over before you could finish your core crit items.
ADC's were complete trash. Most of them still are too be honest. There are some exceptions e.g. Jinx, Vayne, and Draven. The first two are MASSIVELY overtuned right now, and Draven will always be strong, due to the fact he really just scales off raw ad.
The only reason ADC's are "meta" in bot is because people who have played ADC all these years don't want to give up the champions they love. If they were able to be played LITERALLY ANYWHERE ELSE I guarantee we would have a lot more diversity in bot lane.
Frog goes moo3 votesI'm sick of people propagating this flat out lie. ADC's remained in bot lane because that's the only lane most ADC's can actually be played. It had nothing to do with them still being viable picks.
With the exception of Lucian, Ezreal, and MF ADC's were trash tier champions. Picking a crit ADC was basically shooting yourself in the foot. You were forced into buying that stupid fucking Stormrazor so you had even the smallest iota of surviving early and mid game, and games were over before you could finish your core crit items.
ADC's were complete trash. Most of them still are too be honest. There are some exceptions e.g. Jinx, Vayne, and Draven. The first two are MASSIVELY overtuned right now, and Draven will always be strong, due to the fact he really just scales off raw ad.
The only reason ADC's are "meta" in bot is because people who have played ADC all these years don't want to give up the champions they love. If they were able to be played LITERALLY ANYWHERE ELSE I guarantee we would have a lot more diversity in bot lane.
So you're saying that 1) ADCs were still being played bot lane when they're considered bad and 2) assuming you viewed my links, that even though you acknowledge that their winrates and playrates were still high before the item reworks that you still consider them to be trash?!?!? Interesting.
Secondly let me stop you there. Many adcs CAN be played in different positions, it's just that many adc mains enjoy the safety of having a personal bodyguard that will sacrifice themselves to save them and usually benefits the most from the support's vision control. The main ones you will see being flexed will be Lucian, ezreal, mf (I won't add corki considering that mid lane is his main lane) can all go mid. Vayne, Lucian, quinn can all go top lane. Kaisa, quinn, twitch, can all go jungle. Again those are the main ones. Someone playing kaisa could go top if they wanted to. Someone playing varus could go mid if they wanted to, the reason they don't is because of how much more safe bot lane as a role is. Thirdly, riot consciously tries to limit how strong adcs are by themselves. This is a class that has un-dodgeable auto attacks that scales to be able to three-shot or two-shot enemies. If adc's were more flexible than how they already are, there would be an already smaller champion viablity pool. It's already hell for melee champs whenever they're put against ranged top laners such as jayce, quinn, vayne, teemo, urgot, kayle because not only do they either shutdown or brick their laning phase by punishing them whenever they try to farm, but they're much more viable later on in the game due to how their item scales and playstyle of kiting.
Fourthly, Yes there are SOME adc's that can only be played in the bot lane, but this isn't a class exclusive thing. There are more champions than adc's that can only be flexed into one position. Darius, aurelion sol, garen, ivern, reksai, soraka, the majority of the support roster, amumu, kha'zix etc. The difference between the adc's and other champs is that when they're considered to be "bad," they don't get seen at all, but whenever adc's are considered to be bad, they're still played bot lane because of how reliable their auto attack damage and scaling is and also because as you say"people just don't want to stop playing them because they've played them for so long lmao okay."
PS Another thing is I see you started your reply with "I'm sick of people propagating this flat out lie." I'm guessing you hear these points regularly. Here's a tip, usually the more you hear something or the more someone shares the same opinion or philosophy as another, USUALLY the higher the likelihood of it being true. Not always, but you should definitely consider it.
Edit: present-tense to past tense words
SovereignMammal2 votesSo you're saying that 1) ADCs were still being played bot lane when they're considered bad and 2) assuming you viewed my links, that even though you acknowledge that their winrates and playrates were still high before the item reworks that you still consider them to be trash?!?!? Interesting.
Jinx got 3 straight buffs after 8.11 before the crit item (half) revert. Like I said in my previous comment, Draven wasn't hit as hard as other ADC's by the 8.11 changes, simply because he isn't crit dependent.
Secondly let me stop you there. Many adcs CAN be played in different positions, it's just that many adc mains enjoy the safety of having a personal bodyguard that will sacrifice themselves to save them and usually benefits the most from the support's vision control. The main ones you will see being flexed will be Lucian, ezreal, mf (I won't add corki considering that mid lane is his main lane) can all go mid. Vayne, Lucian, quinn can all go top lane. Kaisa, quinn, twitch, can all go jungle. Again those are the main ones. Someone playing kaisa could go top if they wanted to. Someone playing varus could go mid if they wanted to, the reason they don't is because of how much more safe bot lane as a role is. Thirdly, riot consciously tries to limit how strong adcs are by themselves. This is a class that has un-dodgeable auto attacks that scales to be able to three-shot or two-shot enemies. If adc's were more flexible than how they already are, there would be an already smaller champion viablity pool. It's already hell for melee champs whenever they're put against ranged top laners such as jayce, quinn, vayne, teemo, urgot, kayle because not only do they either shutdown or brick their laning phase by punishing them whenever they try to farm, but they're much more viable later on in the game due to how their item scales and playstyle of kiting.
Quinn isn't an ADC, nice strawman. Twitch jungle only works in low elo due to terrible vision control and lack of map awareness. Ezreal mid: https://u.gg/lol/champions/ezreal/build/?role=middle Varus mid: https://u.gg/lol/champions/varus/build/?role=middle MF mid: https://u.gg/lol/champions/missfortune/build/?role=middle I'll give you Lucian, he has the mobility to play mid and top
Fourthly, Yes there are SOME adc's that can only be played in the bot lane, but this isn't a class exclusive thing. There are more champions than adc's that can only be flexed into one position. Darius, aurelion sol, garen, ivern, reksai, soraka, the majority of the support roster, amumu, kha'zix etc. The difference between the adc's and other champs is that when they're considered to be "bad," they don't get seen at all, but whenever adc's are considered to be bad, they're still played bot lane because of how reliable their auto attack damage and scaling is and also because as you say"people just don't want to stop playing them because they've played them for so long lmao okay."
MOST ADC's can only be played bot lane, with the exception of Lucian and Vayne. So you're going to cite Ezreal, MF, and Varus mid as "viable" picks they can be flexed into but completely ignore A Sol top, Soraka top and mid, and Kha'Zix top? Your ignorance and blind hate of ADC's is showing. "The difference between the adc's and other champs is that when they're considered to be "bad," they don't get seen at all" So when Darius is bad, Darius mains don't play him? When Ivern is bad, Ivern mains don't play him? It's the same shit in bot lane. If Tristana is bad a Tristana main isnt going to just say "Well Trist is bad, time to become a Swain main" No. That person is going to continue to play Tristana, because that's who they enjoy playing.
PS Another thing is I see you started your reply with "I'm sick of people propagating this flat out lie." I'm guessing you hear these points regularly. Here's a tip, usually the more you hear something or the more someone shares the same opinion or philosophy as another, USUALLY the higher the likelihood of it being true. Not always, but you should definitely consider it.
The Earth is the center of the universe, Pluto is a planet, and ADC's were never bad
Frog goes moo2 votesLMAO!!!! I find it hilarious that I state that these champs CAN be played in certain roles but they are less viable because riot consciously tries to make them so in other lanes because that would lower the champion pool and then you post stats only verifying what I say. The fact that they have over a 40 percent winrate in other lanes means they win 4/10 times in a role they "aren't supposed to be in." Do you not see the problem? In a role they are supposed to be in, they're supposed to win 5/10 times. If you're losing only 1 more time in an off role.. do I need to go on? You're asking for an adc to be up to par on the same level as they are in their main element? Your blind favoritism for the adc class is showing.
"quinn isn't an adc." She's an auto based ranged damage carry. That's usually what classifies someone as an adc. Just because she's used to bully melee champions top lane, it doesn't discredit this.
"ignoring asol top, soraka top and mid" I'll agree maybe the examples I gave weren't as good as I thought. I'll give you that one, but if you look at the statistics for soraka top and khazix top, you see they win around 4/10 times in their off role. My main point was that adc's aren't the only champions that have only a specific role they do well in and then the other they're mediocre and this only strengthens the analogy. I was wrong about aurelion sol though.
"The Earth is the center of the universe, Pluto is a planet," I find it funny that you talk about a strawman fallacy and then make an unequivocal one. We're talking about champs stats and performance that can be found out just by the press of the button on multiple sites all available to us, while these scenarios are the result of the lack of technology to find information. Almost the complete invert of the topic.
And okay let's say that its because of the jinx buffs that she was doing fine. I'll give two more Sivir: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Sivir/ADC/ and kaisa: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Kaisa/ADC/ also before you say "wait kaisa's winrate is only around a 50 percent not over a 50 percent" look at the playrate.
EDIT: I accidentally replied to myself below. lmao
SovereignMammal1 votesLMAO!!!! I find it hilarious that I state that these champs CAN be played in certain roles but they are less viable because riot consciously tries to make them so in other lanes because that would lower the champion pool and then you post stats only verifying what I say. The fact that they have over a 40 percent winrate in other lanes means they win 4/10 times in a role they "aren't supposed to be in." Do you not see the problem? In a role they are supposed to be in, they're supposed to win 5/10 times. If you're losing only 1 more time in an off role.. do I need to go on? You're asking for an adc to be up to par on the same level as they are in their main element? Your blind favoritism for the adc class is showing. "ignoring asol top, soraka top and mid" I'll agree maybe the examples I gave weren't as good as I thought. I'll give you that one, but if you look at the statistics for soraka top and khazix top, you see they win around 4/10 times in their off role. My main point was that adc's aren't the only champions that have only a specific role they do well in and then the other they're mediocre and this only strengthens the analogy. I was wrong about aurelion sol though.
I'll break this down Barney style for you, since reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit. Champions are DESIGNED with a single lane in mind for them. Darius goes top, Syndra goes mid, Udyr goes in the jungle, Caitlyn goes bot, Soraka goes support. Hence, they have terrible win rates when put in lanes they don't belong in. So why is it, that when Riot gutted bot lane out of nowhere and said, "Good luck against mages nerds" everyone called ADC's babies and told them to quit bitching? When Viktor was being played top, top mains cried and bitched about it until Riot gutted him. When Taliyah was being played jungle, jungle mains cried and bitched about it until Riot gutted Taliyah. Let's say you're a top main and Riot decided to nerf every bruiser and every bruiser item, completely out of nowhere, and told you top lane is where supports go now. Would you just accept it and play Sona top? Or would you be on the boards crying about how Riot is full of terrible dev's, and everyone who works there must be braindead?
"The Earth is the center of the universe, Pluto is a planet," I find it funny that you talk about a strawman fallacy and then make an unequivocal one. We're talking about champs stats and performance that can be found out just by the press of the button on multiple sites all available to us, while these scenarios are the result of the lack of technology to find information. Almost the complete invert of the topic.
Again, reading comprehension. "Here's a tip, usually the more you hear something or the more someone shares the same opinion or philosophy as another, USUALLY the higher the likelihood of it being true." Just because you're a sheep, doesn't mean we all are. Some of us have more than 2 or 3 brain cells and the ability to think for ourselves.
And okay let's say that its because of the jinx buffs that she was doing fine. I'll give two more Sivir: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Sivir/ADC/ and kaisa: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Kaisa/ADC/ also before you say "wait kaisa's winrate is only around a 50 percent not over a 50 percent" look at the playrate.
Sivir will always have a decent win and play rate, merely because of the fact she's a super simple ADC to learn and play. Kai'sa was actually better off before the crit item (half) revert. She relied on the Stormrazor power spike, and built a mix of on-hit and AP
"quinn isn't an adc." She's an auto based ranged damage carry. That's usually what classifies someone as an adc. Just because she's used to bully melee champions top lane, it doesn't discredit this.
Quinn is NOT an ADC. Quinn is an assassin.
Frog goes moo3 votesI'll break this down Barney style for you, since reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit. Champions are DESIGNED with a single lane in mind for them. Darius goes top, Syndra goes mid, Udyr goes in the jungle, Caitlyn goes bot, Soraka goes support. Hence, they have terrible win rates when put in lanes they don't belong in. So why is it, that when Riot gutted bot lane out of nowhere and said, "Good luck against mages nerds" everyone called ADC's babies and told them to quit bitching? When Viktor was being played top, top mains cried and bitched about it until Riot gutted him. When Taliyah was being played jungle, jungle mains cried and bitched about it until Riot gutted Taliyah. Let's say you're a top main and Riot decided to nerf every bruiser and every bruiser item, completely out of nowhere, and told you top lane is where supports go now. Would you just accept it and play Sona top? Or would you be on the boards crying about how Riot is full of terrible dev's, and everyone who works there must be braindead?
Again, reading comprehension. "Here's a tip, usually the more you hear something or the more someone shares the same opinion or philosophy as another, USUALLY the higher the likelihood of it being true." Just because you're a sheep, doesn't mean we all are. Some of us have more than 2 or 3 brain cells and the ability to think for ourselves.
Sivir will always have a decent win and play rate, merely because of the fact she's a super simple ADC to learn and play. Kai'sa was actually better off before the crit item (half) revert. She relied on the Stormrazor power spike, and built a mix of on-hit and AP
Quinn is NOT an ADC. Quinn is an assassin.
I stopped at the first sentence. "I'll break this down Barney style for you, since reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit." This is no longer a worthwhile conversation and your tone has moved from an attempt at being informative to just condescending. Enjoy the rest of your day.
SovereignMammal1 votesAh the ol' "Realize I lost and don't have an argument so refuse to respond and try to take the moral high ground"
Paroe2 votesAh the ol' "Realize I lost and don't have an argument so refuse to respond and try to take the moral high ground"
When a jackahorse says "NO NO NO NO NO NO HEEHAW HEEHAW" you dont patiently explain to the jackahorse why theyre wrong again. You leave them in their delusion. Unless both of you are jackahorses with an infallible confidence that you are right. I get into that trap a lot.
Anyway, one of your argument points struck me. "Quinn is not an ADC". Do you understand what an ADC is, and why theyre essential to non-specific strategies? An ADC is an Attack Damage Carry. A carry is a champion who, once powerful enough, can simply put out enough damage to carry a team. Darius, Master Yi, Yasuo, 90% of the marksman roster, are all "ADC" champions. Quinn, a marksman assassin, is most certainly an ADC. Unlike a normal assassin she does not suffer from cooldowns on her main source of damage, she does not have a window of power in which you can counter attack, and she does not have build deficiencies because she builts two multiplicative stats and AD. The simple fact that you dont understand what a marksman is and why theyre important... Well, it proves that you dont even understand the game youre playing.
Paroe8 votes... Are you high? Jungle changes have been pushing AD, AoE, sustain heavy junglers for a long time. Jungle diversity has dropped off the face of the earth in favor of a small handful of champions who all function relatively the same. Jungle is the deciding factor in some games because theyve been forced to become a second carry or fulfill composition specific roles after their main role as a "hyper ganker" who barely farms and spends more time in the river and lanes than the jungle.
Junglers also have adapted to changes riot has thrown at them instead of clinging desperately to outdated ideals and power fantasies.
Sir Saltarin1 votesJunglers also have adapted to changes riot has thrown at them instead of clinging desperately to outdated ideals and power fantasies.
The dailly thread of junglers crying on the Boards tell me otherwise and I dont know why they complain, every game is still played with a Jng in both teams so Jng must be fine.
GelsominoKiller6 votesI mean for Riot fucking up the jungle is a yearly tradition at this point, I just don't care anymore
Naalith5 votesI think any time Riot reduces the number of characters viable in a role or ruins the fantasy of a role with systematic changes is bad, it's just frustrating they keep doing it. Enchanters and tank supports take turns getting deleted, crit adcs got deleted once, right now non-bottom tanks not named Nunu are ass, the jungle pool shrinks every time they make a dumb change, op mid assassins are crowding out traditional mages, fighters live and die by their runes which other lanes abuse, etc.
It's just getting annoying. The jungle changes are exceptionally bad but unlike ADC I doubt they'll be reverted because jungle is used to getting screwed over twice a year or so.
Sir Saltarin2 votesIn what world the ADC nerfs have been reverted?
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEhpLgZt,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-03-29T09:12:23.296+0000)
In what world the ADC nerfs have been reverted?
Their items are back to 2600g, IE is cheaper, and their base stats are higher? All nerfs marksman recieved have been removed and marksmen are as strong as they were when we reworked crit itemization in the first place.
Sir Saltarin2 votesTheir items are back to 2600g, IE is cheaper, and their base stats are higher?
Zeal items are back to 2600 with 5% less crit compared to pre 8.11
IE isn't cheaper, IE pre 8.11 was 3400 gold as it is now, had 10 less ad and 5% less crit but old IE had a +50% crit dmg instead of the +25% crit dmg, which obviously makes the current IE worse, in fact this is probably the worst IE itineration of all this years.
Their stats are not higher per se, the stats changes were a power shift to be worse on lane and better late.
FleetFerwork huge nerf to crit users it's still there.
All nerfs marksman recieved have been removed and marksmen are as strong as they were when we reworked crit itemization in the first place.
If that was true we would have a marksman centred meta and we dont, in fact, marksmans are now weaker than on Worlds patch looking at how on pro play champs as Viktor Vlad Cassio Yasuo are played on botlane, hear me out, if ADCs were as strong as they were not even the dumbest coach on any league would say "hey let's pick a non adc botlane to lose ok?" as it happens.
GodlyBane5 votesyea but jungle wasnt so brokenly deciding that a single person with overwhelming safety can one shot anything however they want. Junglers havent been broken, and they nerfed it because you are trying to compare apples to avocados, it doesnt work like that. junglers werent broken forthe past, what? 3 seasons? maybe early game junglers sure, but riot literally didnt do shit to early game junglers and just fucked over level 3 junglers who need abilities to gank properly.
Listen here pal, Riot has only given pure love and dick sucking to adcs until season 7 and 8, where they finally nerfed the broken things. Jungle has literally got nerfed every year, and hasnt gotten a buff patch for the past 4 or 3 years. Shakin my fukin head
Sir Saltarin2 votesJunglers havent been broken
Imagine thinking this unironically
GodlyBane1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEhpLgZt,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2019-03-29T09:34:57.991+0000)
Imagine thinking this unironically
imagine not. Like literally idk what you want. Oh did you mean gold funneling? yea but that was at the sacrifice of a laner. Did you mean early game junglers? i said they are an exception to this. Read carefully, thanks.
BobaFlautist4 votes"more champions are viable in the jungle, it's for the best"
That's kinda funny, because that's exactly wrong. Most major jungle nerds significantly restrict the roster to what was already the healthiest, most consistent meta, because champions with more fragile clears or a higher dependency on gold/xp are just non-options. Jungle mains are lore likely to complain about the stagnation and limited options, it's considered unhealthy for the jungle to have fewer than two or three possible archetypes available at once whereas adcs were legitimately freaking the fuck out because 2-3 individual chanpions from ONE OTHER ARCHETYPE were playable in their slot.
Dom (Iwilldominate) actually commented on this recently, junglers are expected to have basic proficiency in pretty much every type of champion and in multiple playstyles (farm heavy, gank heavy, counterjungling focused, etc) because Riot has proven their willingness to gut the meta strat in any given patch; by contrast adcs, again, threw a fucking fit when they were asked to learn to play one other champion type.
Unstoppable Monk1 votesBased and junglepilled.
iFEARdilemma3 votesI do not like the recently made jungle changes aswell. Since it forces junglers to maximize their efficiency in a way thats not healthy anymore to the flow of the game.
Shorter clearing pathes, masteries / runes which give you free boots. Rushing jungle item without getting boots first.. etc.
The dynamic and the versatility of the jungle suffered a lot imo.
GigglesO3 votesWorst part is jungler still often determines games by how much he ganks vs afk farms.
Andrex25003 votesIt always will. The jungler will always make 2v1 and 3vs2 happen.
KirbyCake2 votesAll these changes are completely useless and frustrating for jungle mains and not really changing the fact that junglers still have way too much influence compared to other roles.
How about we start removing plants which just gives jungler free vision denial/information with more gank routes. Make camps rewarding and lower the spawn timer of them.
Troy2426212 votes"Junglers don't adapt" Junglers adapt to abysmal XP from camps by spamming gank junglers "Junglers have too much pressure"
boricCentaur11 votesAdc players has to learn completely different champions and could not play the champions they wanted since the majority of marksman can only be played as a adc and that was the biggest problem then after riot buffed the items they were basically in the same spot as before but felt way worse.
So when did that happen to jg?
nelogis1 votesyou just need to cry 24/7 or start a meme "jungle in 2k19 LUL"
Helped with ADCs at least
Unstoppable Monk1 votes"jungle players will adapt to the changes and move on or they will find a new role to play"
lol jungles have been adapting to dumb changes since forever it's called jungle season changes lmao
"jungle players are whiny bitches and deserve their role getting gutted"
I'm sorry but "whiny bitches" is reserved for the ADC role and that is entirely their fault no takebacks.