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A Cassiopeia rework

Koechophe··27 votes·3,609 views

To preface, I don't play cass a whole lot now, because I really don't think she's terribly enjoyable anymore. This is just an idea for her rework, hope you enjoy.

*EDIT: Made changes due to clarification on what players want Cass to be.

Passive: Deathly Elixir. Every second that an enemy champion is poisoned, Cassiopeia builds up a stack of Deadly Elixer (Can build up multiple stacks per second if multiple enemies are poisoned). At 10 stacks, Cassiopeia's next Twin Fang against an enemy champion will heal her for (10 per level) + .35 AP.

Q: Noxious Blast (Cooldown: 4 seconds) (Cost: 40/50/60/70/80) After a delay, Cassiopeia blasts a target area. All enemies hit are afflicted with Icy Death.

Icy Death: deals 80/125/170/215/260 (+.5 ap) over 4 seconds and slows movement speed by 10/15/20/25/30%. If the enemy is a champion, Cassiopeia gains half of the stolen movement speed. The movement speed reduction gradually recovers over the duration. ** W: Miasma (Cost: 90 mana and 1 charge)**

Passive: Cassiopeia stores a charge every 16/14/12/10/8 seconds. Max 2/2/2/2/3 charges.

Active: Cassiopeia throws a cloud of poison at a target location which expands over 7 seconds. Enemies caught in the poison are afflicted with Mental Parasite. Continual exposure renews the duration.

**Mental Parasite: **Deals 20/40/60/80/100 (+.2 AP) every second for two seconds and causes all ability cooldowns to recover 50% slower while active.

E: Twin Fang (Cooldown: 6 seconds) (Cost: 30/40/50/60/70 mana) Passive: Poisoned champions are now surrounded by particles that vary depending on which was most recently applied. Icy Death: Green Particles Mental Parasite: Purple Particles Deathly Glare: Grey Particles

Active: Cassiopeia fires a targetted projectile that damages the first enemy hit for 40/55/70/85/100 (+.3 ap). If the target is poisoned, an additional fang is fired at the target and the cooldown is reduced to 1 second. Twin Fang has additional effects based on the type of poison that was most recently applied to the target enemy (these effects can only be applied once every 10/8/6 seconds):

Icy Death: Each instance of twin fang deals an additional 30% damage to targets below 40% health. Mental Parasite: Cassiopeia gains 10% of her missing mana and the poison is reapplied. Death's Glare: Twin Fang will pass through other enemies to hit its target, and an additional fang will spread to every target in the area afflicted with Death's Glare.

R: Petrifying Gaze (Cooldown: 120/110/100) (Cost: 100 mana) After a brief Delay, Cassiopeia blasts targets in a cone, afflicting them with Death's Glare.

Death's Glare: Deals 150/250/350 (+.5 ap) damage and slows enemies for 40% over 2 seconds. During the first second of the poison, any enemy that looks Cassiopeia in the eye will be stunned for 2 seconds.

Explanation: -The passive is meant to give her some survivability, which she desperately needs as a low-ish ranged immobile mage. It is far more effective mid-late game when multiple targets are being poisoned simultaniously, and is harder to proc than you would think, simply because of how Twin Fang works.

-The poisons were each given their own name, and were made to try for different effects. The Q is the slowing poison, which gives Cass movespeed and allows to seal their death through enhanced damage on E on low-hp targets. The W is a unique effect that reduces the speed at which cooldowns regen. It was made specifically to help Cass become a better zone controller: she can now throw out 4 different miasmas, and people REALLY don't want to stand in them, because their cooldowns will regen very slowly if they do. On the flip side, it no longer slows, so in order for it to work maximum effect, you have to first Q them.

-The E was transitioned into a burst move that compliments the poisons, rather than superceding them. It was given a unique targetting system (think Caitlyn's R) where it is targetted, but is a projectile that can be blocked by either minions or champions standing between Cass and her target. It also gives dynamic effects based on poisons so that Cass truly feels like a poison mage, carefully managing them.

-Finally, her R itself became a poison instead. It still has the same effect, where targets facing her are stunned, but now the poison means that if targets face her ever within the 1 second window, they will become stunned. This gives her a lot more opportunity to use the utility of the spell, and it turns her E into something of an AOE, to help teamfight presence if used properly.

Goals: -Reduce her spammy nature and make her spells more high impact -Give more dynamic intricacy to her kit other than just "throw spells at people and hope for the best" -Bring home the poison fantasy and add some unique mechanics to them to make her feel like she's applying layers of poisons. -Make her E and R feel cohesive to the rest of her kit. -Make her E live up to the name "twin fang" -Make her kit feel different and unique from the rest of the imobile mages.

That's how I'd rework Cass. Hope it gives some food for thought on ways to make her more dynamic. The numbers aren't really important, and it'd be impossible to tell how balanced they are without seeing it put in place. Thanks for reading!

38 Comments

Oerba No Naja5 votes

i REALY like your ideas the q new ms + , but there some things that you dont completly understand because as you said you are not a cass player ^^ Lets try to fix it and make it propably the perfect rework idea ( would be to make cassio 50% poison 50 % twin fangs ) :

Lets not gut a part of cassio 's identiy ( current and old cassio ) + mechanics / skill cap hit and run / kit : i agree we need to nerf her twin fangs if we decide to buff her poison , but with that 0.5 ap on q its not worth imo it should be 0.65 ap (70% ? )

Twin fangs reset 0.5s -> 0.75 + make it go on couldown when it hits the target i think this nerf is fine

Passive: Deathly Elixer i like this idea but why not put the mana sustain into it ? and then try to add something new somewhere else ?

Noxious blast : 5 secs is too much if you are not going to make the duration longer , you need to keep it up for minions depush , twin fangs ect .. + you rly need a poison panic to deal with dash machines ; if not your are going to be totaly out damaged in all ins just revert the old couldown from the pre work cassio / or let it at 4 s cd

Miasma : 10/10

Twin fangs effects : Icy Death : i like the finisher idea but i think its too op ( ? ) increased the poison dmg by x ( ? ) cassio heals x ( with another passive ^^ instead of the healing one ) the 2 others are realy good .

  • i didnt expect a slow on her q , i rly love it you can finish lyandri without rylais !

Well if we add my suggestion cassio can max q or e , she is fine with people who like the current cassio and people who miss the old one .

Nagma1 votes

in order to keep cassio 50/50 as we want her ult should stay a burst tool tho .

Koechophe1 votes

Does putting the damage over 2 seconds instead as a poison really hurt her burst that much?

Koechophe1 votes

Great insight on what Cass players really want to see. A few questions for you:

-What do you think of the Twin Fang targetting system? Too different? -Do you like the concept of named poisons?

I made a few changes: -Poison now reduces CD of twin fang on hit, but damage was decreased. -Q CD was lowered to 4 seconds, so that you can "always apply" the poison. -E bonus damage down on Icy Death. -Icy death only steals half the movespeed (potentially higher cap, but hitting 5 champs with that tiny aoe should probably never happen)

I kept the passive as health gain because it's (imho) what allows her to feel powerful in teamfights: she can be healing a lot, so shes hard to push out with poke. The mana gain on Mental Parasite was to be consistent with what the poison does; it infects their minds.

And a few clarifications: -Twin fang fires 2 fangs at poison targets, so take the damage numbers and basically double it if the target gets hit by both fangs

Oerba No Naja1 votes

" -The E was transitioned into a burst move that compliments the poisons, rather than superceding them. It was given a unique targetting system (think Caitlyn's R) where it is targetted, but is a projectile that can be blocked by either minions or champions standing between Cass and her target. It also gives dynamic effects based on poisons so that Cass truly feels like a poison mage, carefully managing them. " Its too easy to counter , you cant get the back line you have to focus the front line and it kinda sucks in some situations ; and the long range snipe doesnt fit with her kit wich is supposed to be middle ranged .

I love the concept of the poisons .

the changes are good and actually make it a good rework , i dont think the dmg numbers actually matters at the point of " concept " ^^ Yes in the end i think this passive is better compared to the current sustain she got from twin fangs .

Thanks for the clarifications , i didnt get it the first time i read but know i think the cd is fair ( poison lowers it to 1 s ? )

I wish i could try it , only if you were a rioter .. item 3070

Koechophe1 votes

Just as a note, her E isn't long ranged, cait's R was the example I thought of to explain "targetted, but can be blocked". It's also about as fast as live, so if you have a straight shot when you cast it, it can't be blocked. It was my attempt at putting some counterplay into her E, because ATM it's pretty much just "get poisoned and get screwed". I think it'd work well, but again, impossible to tell without sending it to live in some way.

And yes, poison lowers to 1 second.

Stratavotis1 votes

heyo, long time Cassiopiea player as well. I miass when her poisons had impact as well.

why not change it so Twin fang still refreshes on a teammates' poisoned target, but on her poisons they still do their effects? That way there's still synergy between her, teemo, twitch and singed? Maybe make it so the spell refunds half it's cost if hitting a poisoned target and takes 1/4 of the time to come off cooldown?

If I may: if her base ratio on E was lowered currently, the base damage on her poisons could be returned to her previous self. what about the massive loss of ratio that happened from moving her previous ratios into her passive?

I like the concept, but i think the Miasma clouds should be 1/1/2/2/3 for charges. when you're at max CDR currently, if you cast the cloud after putting out the cloud it's a replacement effect

Passive: noxious chemist: Cassiopiea's spells return half their mana, and shred the targets armor and magic resist by 5% per second if they hit a poisoned target for 1.5~4.5 seconds depending on her level.

Q noxious blast: returned to old base damage, but a .75 ap ratio. has a built in slow that gives casiopiea half the amount taken.

W hissing miasma: has a charge system and is the amount of clouds that can be dropped. 1/1/2/2/3. same base damage as current, old ap ratio (0.35ap)

E twin fang: fixed ratio (0.5ap). refresh time is quartered (1/4) if hitting a poisoned target.

R reduce the windup time, or call it "dazing flash" change the petrefication so it's only on mythic cassieopia. same damage and ratios as old cassie.

Oerba No Naja2 votes

with the different poisons from his concept ? it could be good , but her passive is more or less the same as deadly cadence , it adds no new mechanics to the champion . with his suggestion cassio could play around her poison ( deathly elixir ) instead of just throwing it in order to do dmgs only .

JQKAndrei2 votes

I LOVE the idea of Cass' E changing effect based on the type of poison applied, so original. Very nice.

Veraska2 votes

I like a lot of stuff going on in here but some thoughts

-her new Q is a speed boost and a slow? That sounds really obnoxious to try and deal with her 1v1 you won't be able to stick to her or escape her, maybe if when you E'd someone who was affected by Q dot, then it'd apply the slow, she'd still be able to kite and stuff it just wouldn't all be in one button

-mental parasites sound cool on paper, but I feel it'd have similar problems to mana burn in game, kinda cool for you, AWFUL for the person getting CDslowed I would hate that so much.

-deaths glare doesn't let you front on her at all for a really long time, this sounds absolutely devestating in teamfights

I like the idea of her E being a twin cast ability, and I really like the idea of her poisons making the E trigger bonus effects, but I think a lot of power needs to be shifted around, I like the general concept tho

Koechophe1 votes

The Q is just as hard to hit now as it was before, if you dodge it, you won't have any issues. Also, it's something like Malphite's Q (which is targetted) so the spell isn't unprecedented. The fact that her W also doesn't slow gives you a lot more wiggle room to play against her.

-Keep in mind that Miasma doesn't slow, and so if you walk out of the poison, it's only a 2 second effect. Also, the reason mana burn was bad was because it had too big of a power margin (either it was super effective or you didn't notice). This one seems more flat. But regardless, it feels horrible when you get charmed by Ahri, but it only happens when she outplays you. I think the same would apply the the miasma.

-I lowered the duration for the stone effect on Death's Glare.

Glad you like the concept, those are some of my notes on why I put in what I did.

Dominick Destine2 votes

Elixir, not "Elixer".

A Liberal2 votes

I do like the concept of having twin fang interact differently on the two posions, but wtf how the hell does "icy death" or "Mental Parasite" in any way make sense for her thematically.

Koechophe1 votes

Their the names of her two main poisons, named after the effects they cause. Not sure why that's inconsistent with a poison mage's identity.

Dante Valentine2 votes

Hmmm lemme see if I can't shake it up a bit. Now I know people love drawing parallels to champions so I'll insert them to cut to the chase and avoid the obvious criticisms. How about something along the lines of:

Goals of this design will include:

  • Hearkening back to aspects of old Cassiopeia I believe were iconic: kiting until the moment is right, Ryliandry's synergies, and poison play
  • Injecting ;) some new life into a long argued kit, including combo mechanics for proper ability usage and some slippery snake like aspects.
  • Encourage dynamic play rather than face-mashing, or the all too often in Cassiopeia's case, carpal tunnel.
  • Play into the ongoing demands of debilitating poisons now found in new W and R abilities.

Passive: Deadly Cadence After casting an ability, any subsequent abilities cast will cost 10% less for 5 seconds. This ability stacks up to 5 times.

A return to form, I really enjoyed this as it encouraged aggressive play. It also encourages more equal use of abilities ^_^ With an increased skill cap that the opponent could combat, you were encouraged to spam abilities to keep your mana costs low but with the ramp requirement positioning for the enemy was key to shut down the spam since if you were forced to cast at nothing just to keep your mana costs down that would be the functional equivalent to dodging a spell and if you choose to shove lane you risk getting ganked as an immobile mage.

Q: Noxious Blast Functionally similar* .5 second delay 3 second CD 40/50/60/70/80 Mana Deals 90/135/180/225/270 (+.75AP) over 3 seconds (30/45/60/75/90 (+.25AP) per second 3 second ms boost 10/15/20/25/30%

With a lower CD and a Dot duration that matches the CD and the buff, CDR is discouraged. This is also a throwback to the old Q.

W: Envenom New W* Cassiopeia shoots an envenomed projectile which splatters on the first target struck onto targets behind it (leaves a pool for 5 seconds if missed) An interruptable line effect AoE (shaped like Lissandra Q) 12 second CD 70 mana Affected targets take 10/12.5/15/17.5/20% increased damage from all sources and have their damage reduced by an equal amount for 2.5 seconds E casts refresh the duration.

The interruptable line effect ensures that Cassiopeia has to work for more than Q harass, I feel if the two abilities are easily combo'd at the long Q range her harass would be too strong. AoE allows for mild penetration. Keeping this ability simple allows for smoother interactions with the rest of her kit though it is important to utilize the damage amp/debuff for proper team fighting and excelling late game with DoTs in a burster's game.

E: Cobra Strike Reworked Twin Fang* 450 Range 4.5 second CD 40/50/60/70/80 mana Cassiopeia goes in for the kill lunging at a target before recoiling halfway back (think Quinn E) on kill Cassiopeia deals damage to target champion equal to 1 seconds worth of any poisons currently afflicting the target plus 15%(+3% per 100AP) of their missing health Cobra Strike CD is reduced by 1 second for each poison affecting the target Optional Cassiopeia also heals for half the damage dealt

Using current poison checking mechanics for smoothness this new twin fang resonates more with actual snake behavior and also encourages spell combos over spamming just E. Using this ability is dangerous but signals Cassiopeia going on the offensive many champions will appreciate her closing the gap or walking into line effects such as a brand EQ but her damage spikes once in close. The healing mechanic would be placed here if necessary.

R: Miasma W&R combined* 120/100/80 CD 100 mana 20/25/30% Slow Cassiopeia blasts a large area with a poison cloud damaging enemies caught inside and slowing them. (Think Zyra R) I have 3 styles of flavor to choose from here:

  1. Enemies caught inside for two seconds are stunned (As they are turned to stone)
  2. Enemies who are poisoned are stunned instantly (due to a poison C-C-C-Combo!)
  3. Enemies inside are blinded for the duration of the poison (like a graves W+poison -- this would be one invocation of the "debilitating poison" dream) 75/125/175 (+.25AP) magic damage per second for 5 seconds poison damage clings to the target for 1 second after leaving the miasma

This ability would function as a large zoning/combo tool for team fights with huge potential outputs

Items:

Rod of Ages - Larger mana pool for passive, AP, and health for a more risk/reward Cass Rylai's Crystal Scepter/Liandry's Torment - Very synergistic with this design utilizing the Q dot to persistently apply burn and magic pen being quite valuable on a high base damage kit. Sorcerer's Shoes/Abyssal Scepter - More magic pen _Zhonya's Hourglass - Rounds out defenses and the active is very helpful after she goes in for the kill.

I feel a MPen bruiser build would work best of Cassiopeia in this iteration of her. Higher AP builds would focus on more hit and run tactics whereas this would likely be in the vein of a team fight assassin.

Playstyle Ideal combo: WQREQEEQEE

In lane she would utilize her Q for farm and harass saving her W for full trades. Her E would come in to finish an opponent off or could alternatively be used to dash to a minion to dodge attacks.

In midgame Miasma would enable objective control similar to Anivia. Skirmishing allows Cassiopeia to be as aggressive as she would like to be without fear of getting ganged up on.

In lategame Envenom would become a dangerous tool in large teamfights as well as Miasma's zoning threat as she seeks out lone targets to pick off.

As a duelist proper maintenance of W duration with E casts allows for 100% uptime against a single target for the duration of a duel. Picking her battles is key as once she has used E, she will be in melee range and will be at the mercy of any projectiles her opponent may have available, baiting these out is important before going in for the kill.

Well I think that's enough for now, lemme know what you guys think... And if Repertoir or any reds wanna ask Subninja where he got his ideas for Zac's abilities -- he never thanked me! D':

www GOHAM org1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dante Valentine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAbr173E,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-01-20T08:46:33.450+0000)

Q: Noxious Blast Functionally similar* .5 second delay 3 second CD 40/50/60/70/80 Mana Deals 90/135/180/225/270 (+.75AP) over 3 seconds (30/45/60/75/90 (+.25AP) per second 3 second ms boost 10/15/20/25/30%

With a lower CD and a Dot duration that matches the CD and the buff, CDR is discouraged. This is also a throwback to the old Q.

W: Envenom New W* Cassiopeia shoots an envenomed projectile which splatters on the first target struck onto targets behind it (leaves a pool for 5 seconds if missed) An interruptable line effect AoE (shaped like Lissandra Q) 12 second CD 70 mana Affected targets take 10/12.5/15/17.5/20% increased damage from all sources and have their damage reduced by an equal amount for 2.5 seconds E casts refresh the duration.

The interruptable line effect ensures that Cassiopeia has to work for more than Q harass, I feel if the two abilities are easily combo'd at the long Q range her harass would be too strong. AoE allows for mild penetration. Keeping this ability simple allows for smoother interactions with the rest of her kit though it is important to utilize the damage amp/debuff for proper team fighting and excelling late game with DoTs in a burster's game.

E: Cobra Strike Reworked Twin Fang* 450 Range 4.5 second CD 40/50/60/70/80 mana Cassiopeia goes in for the kill lunging at a target before recoiling halfway back (think Quinn E) on kill Cassiopeia deals damage to target champion equal to 1 seconds worth of any poisons currently afflicting the target plus 15%(+3% per 100AP) of their missing health Cobra Strike CD is reduced by 1 second for each poison affecting the target Optional Cassiopeia also heals for half the damage dealt

Using current poison checking mechanics for smoothness this new twin fang resonates more with actual snake behavior and also encourages spell combos over spamming just E. Using this ability is dangerous but signals Cassiopeia going on the offensive many champions will appreciate her closing the gap or walking into line effects such as a brand EQ but her damage spikes once in close. The healing mechanic would be placed here if necessary.

R: Miasma W&R combined* 120/100/80 CD 100 mana 20/25/30% Slow Cassiopeia blasts a large area with a poison cloud damaging enemies caught inside and slowing them. (Think Zyra R) I have 3 styles of flavor to choose from here:

  1. Enemies caught inside for two seconds are stunned (As they are turned to stone)
  2. Enemies who are poisoned are stunned instantly (due to a poison C-C-C-Combo!)
  3. Enemies inside are blinded for the duration of the poison (like a graves W+poison -- this would be one invocation of the "debilitating poison" dream) 75/125/175 (+.25AP) magic damage per second for 5 seconds poison damage clings to the target for 1 second after leaving the miasma

This ability would function as a large zoning/combo tool for team fights with huge potential outputs

I fucking love this rework Idea. What I really like is your idea for her Q, W, and part of E. I don't think the jump animation for how you have her E would work well for her character design but I do like the idea of turning her current animation for twin fang into an execute ability. However the ult you have described would never work because cassiopeia as a "god" has the ability to turn people to stone and that is very important to her theme. Plus her current ult is very important to her kit as a disengage reengage tool.

I'm curious about altering your kit slightly. What if you use the E as a starting tool. A viper bites once then you slowly die. So what if the E does % "current health" (meaning you would start with this ability in a fight and it would give you a burst of movement speed). The damage for her E would poison over 12 seconds. Each consecutive Q you land on them amplifies the twin fang damage by dealing a percent of their "Missing health". I like your W idea perfectly and then I would just use the current version of the ultimate. That would seriously be an amazing kit.

Dante Valentine1 votes

I hear you on the concern for the E animation :/ but if she is to have long range, high damage outputs, and CC she needs to have a trade-off somewhere, and I believe that requiring her to make a risky play would be best for her kit's health, hence the gap closer. I also liked the ability to cobra strike to a minion to dodge key abilities and be a slippery snake :3.

I don't believe the E changes you propose would fly. A 12 second poison might sound great but almost no engages last that long so much of the damage would be wasted and she would never survive a trade with most mages, see Brand combo or fizz combo as examples of competition. On the flip side, having a targeted spell that applies a 12 second dot and gives a ms boost would be oppressive to the extreme as once you enter E range, she would cast it and would maintain the effect on you until you died, the only counterplay would be kill her because you're in the same lane and you will die. It wouldn't be fun for the opponent, and there wouldn't be a skillful high point for Cassiopeia besides casting E and waiting. Consider Illaoi's E which has a skill shot requirement followed by a full engage on the soul target to create a vessel that lasts 10 seconds. It sucks being a vessel for what seems like an hour as she tries to reset it over and over until you succumb to it but there is at least the high point of the fight for your soul as opposed to just entering E range.

If the stone turning is a requirement, I'd suggest using the first or second definitions of my R. The current iteration of Cassiopeia's ult has had high moments when used from brush due to it's clunky nature: It's cone effect doesn't work as well as you'd like when you're under pressure and up close and the delayed cast has always been contentious due to the counterplay it allows. Casting Miasma at ones feet has always been profitable, and fighting inside a super version of this cloud would certainly qualify as a disengage-reengage tool. In the first the stun effect would take a moment to kick in allowing for a quick assassin to gut you if they have the element of surprise. In the second it would function as more of a combo piece giving the Cassiopeia the agency for triggering the stun with another poison. This version would function on more of a CD window for keening assassins looking for a kill. The pool effect granted by Miasma also allows her significant zone control in a siege, an aspect that often resonates with players.

I'm glad you enjoyed my proposition! I just don't think your adjustments would help the case.

PS: I'm not entirely up to date on my Greek but I was under the impression that Cassiopeia was the snake constellation and her character in mythology was just an arrogant wife that maybe shouldn't have been quite so uppity around the Gods and her stone-turning effects come from her Gorgon based design.

www GOHAM org2 votes

I'm glad you enjoyed my proposition! I just don't think your adjustments would help the case.

PS: I'm not entirely up to date on my Greek but I was under the impression that Cassiopeia was the snake constellation and her character in mythology was just an arrogant wife that maybe shouldn't have been quite so uppity around the Gods and her stone-turning effects come from her Gorgon based design.

Yea my greek mythology is extremely lacking also. The idea of looking into her eyes and turning to stone is the only thing I've ever heard about her.

This next suggestion is more of a tweak for her until a more solid change comes about like what you suggest... So lets say we were to keep her ult the way it is right now just for shits and giggles... I would like to know how we could tie her other abilities into her ult so that it doesn't seem so random. Like if we made it so Twin Fang reset on champions that are poisoned or slowed but only gives the poison bonus damage obviously to the poisoned ones. That would give you at least some sort of damage output on champions that are just slowed by your ult and champions that are stunned will give you the time you need to drop a miasma (W) pool. This way we wouldn't need her ult to apply a poison. Also what if at 250 stacks, after ulting, cass gained 5 seconds of some type of hurricane effect on her Twin Fang?

I could see these being some easier QoL changes until riot has more time to address her poison problems...

Dante Valentine1 votes

Oh you! I do love me some shits n' gigglez :3

Ok so if we're working within her current kit without huge tech/animation changes...

Is the E reset on slow for all slows? Because in that case a Rylai's would be self sustaining or most other champions could set you up as well. Or is the ult going to mark targets? If we ran with a marking system we could recode the ult to only apply a slow and allow e casts on targets to stoneform them. It would remove the team stuns from bush for example, but would allow for consistent stunning of priority targets.

Hurricaning could be cool, so like half damage to two adjacent targets? Or something more tangential? If so, I'd suggest maybe making it always active at max stacks but only hurricane to poisoned targets to make sure it can be targeted with more intent.

Also how about we revert the stacking passive to it's old iteration with the ability to farm up on minions rather than the time-locked version we have now.

Ummm for other ult interactions... yeah I can only think of things that require tech or just mash more power into her which is something she doesn't really need :/ What if her ult was just more parabola shaped instead of a cone? That could help its aiming issues. I mean, I'm pretty sure I can see more than just a cone in front of me with MY eyes... lol

Nagma1 votes

i disagree on some points , but i feel like you got some awesome new mechanics to add . Honestly as a cassio player i would prefer her to be fifty fifty , between poisons and burst , if riot could use some of your ideas and keep her twin fangs spam ( more or less ) it could be the rework that everyone would enjoy . I hope riot will wake up .

Koechophe1 votes

I updated my post to reflect the desire to keep twin fang spam, due to popular request.

Stellafreyja1 votes

I don't know how I feel about the Metal Parasite effect, but I love the idea of Miasma being a charge system. That would definitely make it more usable and create great setups.

Koechophe1 votes

Yeah, that's the part I would most like to see. Throwing down 4 growing zones of poison would really make Cass feel great.

Mooninites1 votes

She doesn't need an entirely new rework, she just needs her entire kit to not be frontloaded on her (e) Twin Fang so much so that her (q) Noxious Blast and her (w) Miasma serve only to allow the usage of Twin Fang.

Koechophe1 votes

This is a pretty light rework, not a full update or anything. Most of the kit is the same, just applied in different ways with different effects.

Admiral Will1 votes

I've mostly quit league at this point, but maybe will come back when my favored champions get the attention they need (including cass, she was all I played before the rework). I think this whole idea is incredibly and gives the cass player meaningful choices and lets enemies decide what to get hit by or if they need to burn flash to get out. I'm just saying the fact that it's dps and not instant spells is great because other players can react.

My only issue is communication of which passive will be procced by twin fang, that's very important so your enemies can access the situation. Maybe just some kind of color palette or something, idk your choice.

Koechophe1 votes

Good point. "Most recently applied" Is a bit ambiguous. I'll add to the original post.

MrBuffington1 votes

That W poison is really cool. Her E now works like Pix's bolts, correct? Question about the ultimate: does she have to be facing the enemies when they turn to look at her for them to be stunned?

Koechophe1 votes
  1. Yes. That's a great example, I was having a hard time thinking of one.
  2. Also yes. So if she was running away, enemies would be safe.
MrBuffington1 votes

Yea, there aren't that many things in game that function like it. I really like your ideas, hopefully Riot takes notice.

One thing I remember Repertoir saying is that Cassiopeia's Q and W have pretty similar targeting mechanisms, which doesn't make them terribly distinct; I wonder if there was a different charge mechanism, like Cassiopeia has 100 charges on her W and she holds down W to root herself in place but spray a poison at target area, that persists for a certain amount of time. Spraying in the same area causes the poison to grow in strength and duration, or something. Using the spell costs a certain amount of mana but also consumes charges, which slowly recharge. While rooted, she has a slower turning speed, sort of like Vel'Koz ult but faster. Basically works like the spraypaint tool in MS paint, lol, but I think it could allow her to have some interesting and dynamic zone control, instead of having circles everywhere.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

interessting, but the name of the passive is really off for a heal and ultimatly i think it´s a little too much.

i´d favour a really poison focused kit:

passive: Venom.

every second an opponent is being poisoned one stack of Venom is applied. Every stack of Venom increases the dmg a Champion takes from Cassios Poison by 10%.

Q: Noxious Blast

unchanged, dmg slightly lowered -> less poke in lane if your opponent dodges, way more if you keep the poison up

W: Miasma

i actually like your charge idea, but it should be limited to two, otherwise you can deny too much terrain at once.

otherwise i´d keep it the same as it is on live.

passive: if your opponent get in contact with miasma while having 10stacks of venom applied venom gets purged and the opponent rootet in place for 1,5sec

E: Twin Fang

range: 700, Mana: 50 at all ranks, CD: 5/4,5/4/3,5/3sec

dmg: 60/90/120/150/180 (+0,5AP)

"freezes" venom on the target for 3seconds (meaning it doesn´t create more stacks, but stacks also don´t decay -> time to stack new poison on your opponent)

passive: if your opponent has 10stacks of Venom on him Twin Fang will leech all stacks dealing 40(+10per lvl)+10%maxhealth(+0,02%per 1Ap) truedmg to the opponent and healing Cassio for half the amount of dmg done

R: Petrifying Gaze

same as live, but also "freezes" Venom

passive: if your opponent has 10stacks of Venom applied he´ll be stuned, even if he looks the other way

Hotlin3 Fling1 votes

Can you Q a wave and move sanic fast?

www GOHAM org1 votes

ok while reading this you sparked a brilliant idea in my head.

NEW TWIN FANG:

what if her E did not rely on poison entirely. What if the poisoned E proc only gave a significantly buffed damage ratio to the E. Then if enemies are facing/chasing Cassiopiea she is able to spam her E on .5 sec cooldown for free mana cost and if enemies are walking away from Cassiopiea her E is on a 1.5 second cooldown and costs 80 mana. (you may be wondering about farming and what the penalty for spamming would be, well.. : cassiopiea percieves minions as opposite, so minions facing her would have 1.5 sec cooldown and 80 mana cost unless twin fang is the killing blow to minions and monsters, then the ability is refunded 75% of its mana cost.)

TWIN FANG PASSIVE:

Plus an alteration to existing passive... When she reaches 500 stacks her E transforms into new ability called PENTA FANG! Penta fang functions the same as above except she is able to hit up to 5 stunned champions with penta fang (like hurricane sorta but it is 5 twin fangs being cast at once). If champions are slowed E ability is transformed into DOUBLE FANG! Double fang will shoot out at up to 2 enemy champions.

Keep the rest of her Q, W, and R the same. May have to tone down her passive AP buff on her 500 stack passive or get rid of it. It would make more sense to transfer some of that 25% ap bonus at 500 stacks to the increased damage bonus when applying twin fang (double fang and penta fang) to poisoned enemies.

The effect these changes have would ultimately turn her into the fearsome snake she is; instead of a squishy carry that can be executed without having much impact. It would truly make enemies consider the consequences of walking straight at her.

Please tell me what you think :)

www GOHAM org1 votes

Also while waiting for you to fix cassiopeia with the changes I suggested above, could you please make her ultimate apply some of its damage as poison to the enemies for 5 seconds? I so badly want to be able to go from pressing R to immediately being able to spam E instead of having to hope my Q and W were off cooldown.

Edge of Daybreak1 votes

I really hope you dont edit while im typing all of this :D

A few things after reading through your rework. I'm gonna assume that the 2nd fang fired from e deals the same damage as the first because you didn't say it didn't.

First your numbers are way too high considering you added so many effects to her. You essentially just shoved a bunch of hidden power into skills and well it doesn't really change how cass plays it just makes her stronger just because. I first looked at the bases of Q W and E and saw that you reduced e and added that ratio + base to the poisons which was cool until i saw that double e part. That can't be a thing because you basically just handed her an almost permanent uptime 80(70%) ratio spell at level 2 that also increases the poison duration of w making that stronger as well.

Passive. The heal is okay. I definitely think cass should be rewarded for poisoning multiple champions.

The slow on Q sounds like it would be a little overbearing if it was enough to make the next Q almost guaranteed. As you wouldn't really be able to run from her and well unless you can straight up fight her one the spot you are probably about to eat too much damage for getting hit once.

W. I personally dont know why riot made the damage so low and someone already mentioned how you gave her too much zone control early. Oh this part isnt important but yeah those names would need to be changed. The ability cd being increased part most likely would never be a thing. but it would be cool if it shredded resistances. Also there is something else to bring up but ill get to that when I reach the E.

E. Here we go. The mothership. If your 2nd fang does reapply damage then this is just straight up broken as you currently have it. If it doesn't deal damage on the 2nd hit then ignore a lot of this. It's way too strong early. Heck it's way too strong at all ranks. It would deal 80(70%) rank 1. and at max rank 200(70%) every second. Why would I max Q over this? Lets say I hit level 2. If I hit one Q im going in. I get 4 seconds to just blast you with e's. but wait there is more. if you get below 40%. (i'm not adding masteries to this stuff btw) I now deal 104(91%) ratio. That's way too high.

Okay. on to E + miasma interaction. You just gave cass infinite mana as long as she is hitting a champion affected by miasma. 10% missing mana regen twice is huge. Worse it reapplies itself so if you are trying to duel her you just keep taking miasma damage until you can stop her from e'ing you and she can never run out of mana. Even if the 2nd E doesnt deal damage this would still be busted.

Ult. I'm assuming that the deadly glare thing is poison since you listed it under E poisons. That 1 second of no retaliation is too strong. It may not see like a lot but the skill reads like this. Let me do whatever I want for a second while you are slowed for 2 or you get stunned for 2 seconds and I do whatever I want anyway. This being poison also makes it so she can start E spam instantly and god help you if you get multiple people because in that 1 second that you don't get to do anything to case you just got hit with 550(105%) ratio. and I get 1 more E if you are stunned making that 750(175%) ratio before you even got to start fighting. I'm not doing the AOE part this was all single target. The aoe part is just icing on the dunk cake

As I said before this is all assuming E deals its damage for both fangs. If it does not then yes my math is wrong but it should be obvious as to why.

You definitely didnt reduce her spammy nature. If anything the current kit makes E spam even stronger. Yes the spells are a higher impact but that's just because you made them do more damage and gave her an possible AOE slow on Q in addition to her already having an aoe slow on miasma. I would play this version of cass just because she would be insane.

See the issue is that "throw spells and hope for the best is exactly how most mages operate now. If I hit level 2 and manage to hit one Q on Cass im going to bless the gods as they either blow flash or im killing them. Her kit is already unique from most immobile mages. IIRC only swain cass and malzahar primarily use DOT's

Koechophe1 votes

TBH I really didn't focus on numbers when I made this, but yeah, I can see how both the Q and E are overbearing, and how there's too much mana regen. The original had the E spam completely removed with Twin Fang as a high impact, reasonable CD spell, but people said that Q spam was part of her identity, so I re-added it without paying much mind to the effect it'd have on the numbers. But do keep in mind that in this iteration, E is a targetted projectile (like Pix's bolts) so there's a significantly higher amount of counterplay.

Post editted to balance a bit.

Envy Sin1 votes

Why do people want this to be all about twin fang. Cass was about Posion. Not a hyper carry E spammer. She was the posion mage and that's gone now.

I just want my posion mage back =(

Goosetard1 votes

I don't really read the numbers in these threads because it's all subject to tuning and that's a process in itself. What I took from this were some fresh ideas regarding how poison can debilitate, besides just a slow (which I think is boring and screws over immobile champions while letting mobiles completely off the hook). Good stuff mate :)

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