You are going to make her QWE damage really REALLY low, for a little bit more of mobility. She is squishy and easy to focus with targeted abilities, so is not like she will shunpo 10 times in a fight. She is fine after her ult base damage nerf. She has clear counters and strenghts.
PureCancer47 votesdon't forget dfg is removed too...
Alorasence42 votesRiot.
What the fuck do you want me to play mid?
I'm not being facetious.
I seriously want to know.
Nerf Mana regen, nerf assassins mid, rework katarina, remove deathfire grasp, kassadin silence leblanc silence talon silence...
Fizz and Zed nerfs incoming.
I'm seriously getting close to quitting this game.
And will you guys please quit saying she has "more mobility".
What the fuck are you talking about? You more than doubled her shunpo cooldown and removed its damage. I don't care about some 80% bullshit, have you any idea how long 3 seconds is when standing in the middle of a team?
I'm not salty or butthurt. Im pissed. I spend time learning champion after champion just to get it deleted from viability.
I need to dry hump my way to Diamond on Lee Sin.
He won't get nerfed.
Edit: Bless Dropfill and all those who participated in this thread. Riot is dropping the proposed changes to Katarina. This would call for a celebration were it not for a hesitent anticipation on the direction they eventually decide to go.
#wait and see
Chromatic Eagle11 votesI don't even have a sarcastic comment on who to play. Try Akali.
Irelia Bot7 votes[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EANpex90,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2015-01-20T22:31:06.858+0000)
I don't even have a sarcastic comment on who to play. Try Akali.
Akali likely getting something more then the reduced range on her ult sometime soon. Just given that tanks can't tank much in the current game and squishes can't seem to deal with the risks of being squishy.
Pvt Yong Tai18 votesMy sentiments exactly. This is the second time I've had to completely reset my champion pool because all of my champs became completely unviable. First in Season 3, then again here in Season 5.
I don't care what Riot says about this, making champions that I've spent hundreds upon hundreds, maybe thousands of hours mastering totally unplayable while keeping certain favored champs in the loop or adding a new champ that completely overshadows an old champ is inexcusable. They have to fix this ASAP.
I shouldn't have to play champions I don't love just to stay revelant in my Elo.
I shouldn't have to fear the possibility that my champions would ever be so unplayable that I have to reset my entire pool.
Yet it's happened. Twice.
Duchess of Deer9 votesI swear my entire champ pool from season 3 is completely destroyed
SpecterVonBaren11 votesI swear my entire champ pool from season 3 is completely destroyed
Wait what? Graves is actually doing really good right now.
SexyTaylorSwift17 votesMostly stems from the mana nerfs. Zed was strong, but he wasn't OP at all before that happened. Some of the changes, like Talon silence removal were needed, but most the changes they make are just stupid. Like nerfing Sona while leaving Thresh. Like nerfing any jungler that comes remotely close to Lee and J4 (BEING IN EVERY SINGLE GAME) getting gutted, while leaving them. I don't get rito, but it will probably cause the game to go to poo poo eventually. They streamline it so hard to what champs THEY WANT to see in the LCS, which most players could give a shit about. I'm sick of seeing Lee and J4 in everyone of my games...why would I want to see them in LCS play?
captainkaiger3 votesShe's keeping her passive, the damage from her mark is being increased, and she still has ridiculous scaling. Not only this, but that 80% cdr on top of the 30 you're probably gonna be building is going to more than make up for it. They're making these changes so that people can't just mash the keyboard and expect a triple at the least.
Alorasence12 votesShe will not scale well anymore. Look at the ratios.
CDR sucks on Katarina exactly because of her resets. But then, now so will ad, ap, and penetration so why the fuck not...maybe frozen heart will give me these "keyboard mashing" triples you speak so highly of.
Katarina takes considerable skill to play outside of Bronze, where CC is an elusive myth. Don't bother contesting that point, I don't care what you have to say and reasonable players dont actually think it's up for debate.
I will concede that many of her counters have been nerfed out of playability though.
Talon and Diana specifically.
Cupkek19 votesPersonally, I think it's a great rework.
It gives Katarina some more depth as a champion, requiring people to play her a bit more carefully rather than being rewarded for recklessly engaging a 4 man team and earning a quadra in .5 seconds.
DropFill16 votes[{quoted}](name=Pungent Squid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EANpex90,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-01-20T19:28:27.473+0000)
Personally, I think it's a great rework.
It gives Katarina some more depth as a champion, requiring people to play her a bit more carefully rather than being rewarded for recklessly engaging a 4 man team and earning a quadra in .5 seconds.
Stop with this BS about " katarina get insta pentakills ". This is such a lie. A teamfight is pretty much 4v5 until katarina can actually get reset. Than, again, if you CC her or zone her out of fight she is useless. Her laning phase is also pretty shitty. It doesn't give nothing to katarina.
Narasimha4 votesIt gives her much more depth in the laning phase. She can't just continuously poke an enemy down with Q until she's ready for the kill anymore. Now she has much more options which in turn make her much more interesting.
DropFill16 votesIt gives her much more depth in the laning phase. She can't just continuously poke an enemy down with Q until she's ready for the kill anymore. Now she has much more options which in turn make her much more interesting.
Poking? Her q used to do no damage at all unless fed. Now will do even less
Howldoom6 votesOnly if she just pokes with it and backs off. Proccing the effect will do much higher damage. But she'll need to go all in to do it.
If you're going in for that damage, however, and you end up getting ganked and killed by that Udyr lying in wait... that's not a problem with Kat, that's a problem with you for not warding or having map awareness.
And if making it through a difficult early game opens up more power in the late game, then that's a fair tradeoff (Cass was just hit a bit too hard with her first rework, though).
Likely if you're whining so much about Katarina being bad and needing more base damage to compensate, you're probably not very good on her in the first place. Sour grapes and all that :P
DropFill14 votes[{quoted}](name=Dakka Downpour,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EANpex90,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-20T22:09:19.965+0000)
Only if she just pokes with it and backs off. Proccing the effect will do much higher damage. But she'll need to go all in to do it.
If you're going in for that damage, however, and you end up getting ganked and killed by that Udyr lying in wait... that's not a problem with Kat, that's a problem with you for not warding or having map awareness.
And if making it through a difficult early game opens up more power in the late game, then that's a fair tradeoff (Cass was just hit a bit too hard with her first rework, though).
Likely if you're whining so much about Katarina being bad and needing more base damage to compensate, you're probably not very good on her in the first place. Sour grapes and all that :P
I just did the math She doesn't have more early game damage, mid game damage OR late game damage. She is losing great part of her damage for more mobility mid-late game. Late game not even that much because she doesn't even need it, because she can get resets on her E anyways. So stop saying shit about this rework. He is bad at all points
Alorasence23 votesThere isn't anything reckless or random about playing Katarina.
Everything about her engage is careful.
Timing is everything. If you don't understand that you simply don't understand the champion.
Annie ADC11 votesThis. So much this. The same rules may not apply to lower ELO, but in average/high, this right here.
Salzigorimando6 votesIt's not wrong, it takes a great deal of practice and timing to get to be a good Kat, but the problem with her right now is that a good Kat and a bad Kat are both using the same move chain in the same way. The only real difference is a good Kat finds the timing and runs with it, while a bad Kat gropes blindly for it until she gets fat enough to start rolling.
Also what changes are we referring to? Hasn't she been reworked once already?
Truly Prideful19 votesMy problem with this is they seem to want you to build her like a hybrid, but the hybrid items are terrible outside of gunblade. I'm waiting to see what else they do to this rework and what her ultimate looks like, but right now she just looks like a build mess.
Alorasence14 votesGunblade is a horribly designed item too. It is one of the biggest reasons why Akali is so cancerous to play against.
Alpharite4 votesAnd they're also nerfing gunblade. Maybe there's some master plan here, but all I see is a slew of unrelated and random nerfs that do nothing to enhance game health.
SpongebobIsLife19 votesPeople have to realize how hard this is going to hurt Katarina's laning phase. Katarina is very easy to bully in lane and she has to rely on her q and w damage for csing and for poking. The nerf to these two abilities will make laning as her so much harder than it already it is. Plus the rework on her w and e is extremely stupid as you should never be building on ad on katarina when ap provides so much more damage. This "rework" is just sending Katarina into the Eve category where she will not have a clear identity, by which I mean, is she an assassin? fighter? Bc the only way to make her laning phase viable, is by building ad. But your mid game will suffer tremendously. I understand it is very hard to try and nerf Katarina due to the nature of her kit, and I agree she is in need of a slight one ( I am a Kat main), but in order to truly truly rework her and keep her as an assassin, you have to change her whole entire kit. Lowering damage won't solve anything on a champion based off of getting resets on kills and assists. And to be completely fair, removing DFG might have been the nerf she needed as it has become quite the staple item on core katarina players, so I don't think they should really try to do anything until after a few weeks of the implementation of DFG's removal.
TheKingDodo15 votesI think they were trying to yasuo her... the only problem is that yasuo's e does damage and hers don't. also yasuo's kit synergizes too well and this abomination of a kit doesn't know what synergy is...
Alorasence6 votesThe fact that she has no CC or utility makes her useless if she doesn't do enormous damage. She can't function as a bruiser or ad fighter.
She's going to be awful. Whatever this abortion actually births to be.
Coochie Cutie12 votesOmg I am crying right now. Katarina is my girl, I was collecting all of her skins.
Then you people plan on doing this to her!!! What is going on in your heads riot like seriously. I don't think I can take it anymore, this will be the last straw if you guys do this shit.
Kat was fine before and you guys are doing this what the hell.
Subject 511 votesWait rework? Can i get a link? I thought she was actually balanced considering on form of CC kills her at an instants notice O_O
Der Lindwurm8 votes[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EANpex90,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2015-01-20T20:28:55.293+0000)
Wait rework? Can i get a link? I thought she was actually balanced considering on form of CC kills her at an instants notice O_O
https://twitter.com/ricklessabandon/status/557335117190815746/photo/1
General consensus seems to be that it's totally unfair to expect one champion on a team of five to have one CC ability up at any time.
Annie ADC11 votesAssuming these changes went through, she would have no real place. She is stuck between AoE damager, between being AP and AD, and her damage has been nerfed so that she can not be an assassin.
Then what is she? She serves no utility, and CC easily counters her. Mobility is nice and all (although Shunpo already gave her enough, especially with resets), but what is the point if you are just going to move around dealing no damage and giving no utility?
I also do not really see it as "more mobility," considering it is situational, since Shunpo must be landed on a champion for its cooldown to be decreased.
I disagree with these changes, and would see it not as an improvement. I think of Katarina as a champion who is balanced (obvious strengths: burst, AoE, mobility with resets... weaknesses: no CC, shutdown by CC, weak early, no more DFG)
Howldoom3 votesThe weaknesses you give for Kat can be overcome. Her lack of CC can be supplemented by that of allies (e.g. Leona); she can play safer in early game and roam to other lanes for her kills if her own lane gets problematic; DFG was getting toxic anyway, and other champs are getting compensated for it as well; and CC shuts down most everyone.
It's not an improvement, true, but I see it as less of a nerf and more of a change in playstyle (i.e. she needs to go in more for damage and better plan her engage).
DropFill5 votes[{quoted}](name=Dakka Downpour,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EANpex90,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2015-01-20T21:54:02.457+0000)
The weaknesses you give for Kat can be overcome. Her lack of CC can be supplemented by that of allies (e.g. Leona); she can play safer in early game and roam to other lanes for her kills if her own lane gets problematic; DFG was getting toxic anyway, and other champs are getting compensated for it as well; and CC shuts down most everyone.
It's not an improvement, true, but I see it as less of a nerf and more of a change in playstyle (i.e. she needs to go in more for damage and better plan her engage).
I just did the math of her QWE combo. She doesn't have more damage, this is not a change in playstyle. It a overkill to the champion
Annie ADC9 votesI agree. A change in playstyle would make sense. But her kit just does not work as her potential changes display.
Her Q does not poke anymore. Her W is based off of AD. Her E does no damage and is now meant for low CD even though her reset already did that for her. Her R is based off of AP.
What is she supposed to be? This kit has no direction. It is in between everything. It makes no sense.
ArcaneFox9 votesSyndra ruined. Ahri potentually ruined. Kat ruined. My 3 mains. Ugg why bother playing anymore. Lets ignore the real problem like akali and zed. Kat just got a nerf! Wtf riot
DropFill18 votesSyndra ruined. Ahri potentually ruined. Kat ruined. My 3 mains. Ugg why bother playing anymore. Lets ignore the real problem like akali and zed. Kat just got a nerf! Wtf riot
Syndra needed that nerf. They just need to fix her E stun. Ahri will probably be ruined. Kat will become TRASH
Junkο2 votesRiot said Zed will be nerfed (despite a simple fix being nerfing Botrk and removing W passive)
UberAffe8 votesBotrk does need to be reworked but an item that is used by many champions should not be reworked simply because it makes one champion strong.
Junkο7 votesI agree, Botrk when combined with LW is not the sole reason tanks are shit atm
qetzel5 votesRemoving the W passive removes about 20% of his late game damage... Isn't that a bit steep?
Cynicatt9 votesIf they just keep the damage on her shunpo and leave this cooldown buff on I think it would be appropriate compensation for removal of DFG. But the way it is currently, it's pretty dumb, I agree.
SpongebobIsLife9 votesthe destruction of karma wasn't as bad as people like to hog it up to be. It just made her a better solo laner than a support. Also, I really dislike how people think all Kat players have to do is mash buttons or just E into a fight, press some buttons and get out of it. Kat is very predictable, especially if you have wards map ( none apparent in lower tiers) and she is more heavily punished by cc than most champions, nor is her assassination as quick as other assassins. Especially with the removal of DFG. I'm also tired of people complaining about how much damage she does. She is an assassin! She is supposed to do a lot of burst damage with a lot of risk, of which she has ( go in a second too late or a second too early and you EASILY can cost your team the teamfight). To me, it seems that people just want the removal of the assassin role in general. I'm sorry you guys have to play against champions that actually take skill and forethought to play against.
Yulen Xoshxius8 votesI personally think her shunpo will be more FUN now and the repetitive use will help defences, but I am not sure if it will be better for her beyond being fun.
DropFill6 votes[{quoted}](name=Yulen Xoshxius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EANpex90,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-01-20T18:56:58.887+0000)
I personally think her shunpo will be more FUN now and the repetitive use will help defences, but I am not sure if it will be better for her beyond being fun.
It has 9sec CD to have the reduced CD on lane. It will not me more fun. She will do no damage at all.
Yulen Xoshxius5 votesNEW: Now refunds 80% of Shunpo's Cooldown after blinking to a champion that she hasn't Shunpo'd to in the last 9 seconds
Cooldown refund will trigger on both enemy champions and allied champions The 9-second lockout is removed if Katarina gets a reset vis her Passive
So as long as you are not using it on the same target you can use it every 80% of 15 (3) seconds. So after 3 shunpos you can shunpo back to the same target.
In addition:
DAMAGE REDUCTION: 15% at all ranks >> 10/15/20/25/30%
Also fixed a bug which caused Shunpo's DR duration to be 1 second instead of 1.5 seconds"
The deffence will rise starting at rank 3 of shunpo, so with her constantly having reduction it will improve her defence. I do agree however that it is a shame it does less damage, but with its increase in mobility and buffs I think it will be FUN, but again I can agree on that I am not certain wether or not it will be GOOD.
DropFill5 votes[{quoted}](name=Yulen Xoshxius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EANpex90,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-01-20T19:37:13.134+0000)
So as long as you are not using it on the same target you can use it every 80% of 15 (3) seconds. So after 3 shunpos you can shunpo back to the same target.
In addition:
The deffence will rise starting at rank 3 of shunpo, so with her constantly having reduction it will improve her defence. I do agree however that it is a shame it does less damage, but with its increase in mobility and buffs I think it will be FUN, but again I can agree on that I am not certain wether or not it will be GOOD.
Shunpo changes will be ONLY a buff in teamfights. In lane will be bad as fuck.
Yulen Xoshxius5 votesThat I might be able to agree with you, but I should point out she can shunpo to wards and minions as well, so she can effectivly behave like lee sin and buy a sightstone if she so desired for mobility if there are no minions nearby.
Alorasence9 votesNo.
Behave like lee sin? You have to be kidding me.
A sightstone? On an ap mid lane assassin? Fucking genius. A 15 second cd ward hop.
Let me climb into this Titanic. With my 800 gold pissed away.
Goodnight Kat; I guess I'll play........
What am I supposed to play now? Dfg gone. Mana regen sucks. Assassins are getting destroyed. Syndra deleted.
Its okay, Zed and Akali are still available....you know...not because they were ever buffed but because they are the only surviving champions to be NOT nerfed.
Edit: PBE changes........ Nevermind, I quit
Auryiel8 votesHonestly I cannot believe the numbers I saw Rickless must be smoking something real special to think that's anywhere near good...
All this ''rework'' will do is make her a shitty melee DPS who relies on AAs but can't actually make use of them Ugh
Sirin Gioro7 votesNow Scarra will never play Katarina for his viewers again :'(
