Evelynn is a Toxic Champion Who Needs to be Fixed

Koechophe··5 votes·1,515 views

Let me preface this post with a few things. I have been playing Eve consistently as one of my mains. I played her a bit before her rework, and I loved the stealth playstyle but thought she just too blatently undertuned to really work as a champion. I played her a ton after the rework, through the brief period of time where she was considered underpowered and then through the long, long stream of OP. I've played her mid, top and jungle, and I always have thought her kit was fantastic. I'm not writing this because I've been facerolled by Eves, or because I think she's stupid op, nor am I writing because I want Eve to be buffed. I am writing this because as an Eve player, I acknowledge that she is broken and needs to be fixed.

One of Riot's main strategies in maintaining balance is giving champions "Windows of oppertunity" to play against and balancing out their power curve so that they don't have feast or famine type playstyles. A champion who is unstoppable when fed and useless otherwise is unhealthy for the game for several principle reasons, but essentially, because in both scenarios it's a bad situation for most people. Being face-roll fed doesn't provide diversity for you or your team, nor does it give the enemy team much ground. Being useless offers the same conundrum, just reversed.

Unfortunately, Eve has these problems. Her kit has low base damages and low utility with high scaling. This means that if she's fed, she blows people up, but if she's not, she tickles them. The fact that she's extremely squishy doesn't help the issue. To add to that, the windows of oppertunity to play against her are unclear, as are her strong and weak points. Against most junglers, you ward to keep vision of them and you take care, keeping track of where they are on the map. Eve's passive makes this impossible. That in of itself is huge in terms of counterplay, but the real issue is her design as a jungler.

Junglers can function on several levels of diversity. Some, like Warwick, function because they have a sustained clear which gives them clear advantages. Some like Amumu function with high cc which gives them superior ganking capacity and teamfight presence. Some function with fast clear times, like Shyvanna, who can get ahead of other junglers by means of better farm. The issue with Eve is that she has little functionality in clearing the jungle. Her ganking operates on surprise and damage. This is problematic for several reasons. High-damage gankers are traditionally hard to balance because they lack in counterplay; jungler comes into lane, blows you up with the assistence of laner, gets fed, etc. The surprise factor of her passive takes even more counterplay away. And because she's weak at clearing the jungle, she doesn't have much of a fallback in case things go badly for her.

The result is a kit that blows people up when strong, and that dies uselessly when weak. No one wants a return of the DFG eve nightmare who could blow up a fed Mundo in 1 second flat. But at the same time, if she is transitioned to "damage over time" it doesn't work either, because her kit is built around assassination, and lacks tankiness and cc to accomidate less damage. In her current incarnation, the exp/gold disadvantage of junglers mixed with horrible base damages and no sustain/defensive steriods means that if she ganks, the laner can generally focus her down and kill her before they die, making it a 1 for 1 trade where Eve loses a buff.

TL;DREve is statistically weak and feels weak when played. But if she's buffed, it's just going to cause her to feel toxic, lacking in counterplay or windows of oppertunity. Eve needs to be given a fallback pattern and a clear direction. If she's meant to be a fighter, give her the tools to do so. If she's meant to be an assassin, give her an assassination pattern that has clear counterplay and weaknesses so she's allowed to be strong. Eve is broken, and needs to be fixed.

Thank you for your time, please upvote/bump if you agree.

14 Comments

Stonington3 votes

I agree with some of your points and disagree with others. For instance, she has low base stats and low scaling. Her ratios are rather low, but she has good DPS.

Koechophe2 votes

Her base damages are low, though. The way you tell how good a base damage is compared to ratio is you see how long it takes for the ratio to outweigh the base. On her Q, it takes ~170 AP for the ratio to outweigh, on her E it takes ~230. Those are high ratios. Compare to someone like annie (it takes ~250, 295 and 650 for her ap to catch up to her base) or Brand ( it takes ~320, 380 and 370 for his ratios to catch up to his base damages) and the difference is clear. From a purely statistical standpoint, her base damages are low and her ratios are high.

Stonington1 votes

{quoted}

Her base damages are low, though. The way you tell how good a base damage is compared to ratio is you see how long it takes for the ratio to outweigh the base. On her Q, it takes ~170 AP for the ratio to outweigh, on her E it takes ~230. Those are high ratios. Compare to someone like annie (it takes ~250, 295 and 650 for her ap to catch up to her base) or Brand ( it takes ~320, 380 and 370 for his ratios to catch up to his base damages) and the difference is clear. From a purely statistical standpoint, her base damages are low and her ratios are high.

I agree, I said she has low base stats and low ratios. I can see where you're coming from. The way you can tell if a ratio is high or not is to compare it to other champs. Comparing the break even point of ap/ad to the base stat doesn't really show anything. When people talk about ap/ad ratios being high or low it's always in comparison to other champs. For the sake of consistency she has low ratios and high dps.

Karn Bishop2 votes

So what your trying to say is you want riot to admit their rework failed to make a balanced champion when that was its whole purpose? That's not going to happen, secondly eve was only op strong when first released and the balance nerfs fixed her.

Currently the only reason shes not viable right now is they removed her Elder lizard which was a key item for her, much in the same way that DFG was a key item for certain mages.

Koechophe1 votes

Riot's goal in making a champion is to produce something balanced. Every time they rework a champion, they acknowledge their failure to do so (indirectly or otherwise). There's precedence for admiting failures in reworkds (Sona, ryze, etc), so I'm hopeful that that can occur in this instance.

Fyzzex2 votes

I'm not sure what you mean by it being impossible to keep track of an Eve on the map even when you ward due to her passive, because from personal experience even just my trinket and my pink ward can usually keep me safe in a solo lane. And even if you cant track an eve its common sense to buy a pink for river bushes when against her allowing you the same warning as against most other junglers. Albeit she will probably destroy the ward after she notices you playing back more than usual but that 100 gold investment may have seemed like it was down the drain but in fact not only did you just deny the enemy a possible kill (300 gold) and assist (150 gold) but you also gave your teammates the ability to go aggressive, get a deep ward, counter jungle or even counter gank. Also, with the changes in price to the trinket upgrades you really have no excuse to not have a pink/ be littering the entire enemy jungle with wards. Finally when you add on the mobility of most laners (cough leblanc cough) how does any evelynn get fed if not for insufficient warding and moronic play (aka relying on enemy mistakes instead of your own prowess and skill).

Sorry about the small, and only marginally related, rant but I feel like it had to be said. Also as I do not play a lot of Evelynn, a quick question why doesn't the Jungle item -> Rylais -> Liandries build of infinite freezing fire not work? It gives her some sticking power, a little tankiness, the ability to peel for her carries, and makes her ult basically cripple the enemy's MS. Add on the % current health and shield, and you have a great follow up initiation for your team (example: Ally malphite ults 3 people, eve pops out of stealth using the MS from W and drops her ult on the same three. Then enemy team now has a majority chunked out and cc'd and any attempt to run will be cut short by Eve's constant slows)

If I'm wrong please tell me where because this is all theorycrafting on my part. Also, just for reference I do agree with you about her being very snowbally, but honestly ever since her nerfs this past season I've only seen full damage/burst evelynns that can't do much if they don't get disgustingly fed so I'm not sure if its the build or the champ.

Thank you for your time.

Koechophe1 votes

For several reasons. the build is sub-par

Liandrys is an MPEN item and her E no longer does magic damage, so you lose out on some access to the stats. Eve also has comparitively low base damages and high ratios, while those items have compartively low AP. Finally, Eve isn't equip to stick and burn a target because in an extended situation, the other champ will be able to kill you. It has utility, but the ideal build on eve ATM is triforce into BoTRK into tank (spirit visage/randuins/GA, usually).

Fyzzex1 votes

I guess I'm confused as to why Eve can't stick and burn a target, esp when you go the build I was talking about. Lets say you go Rylai+lyandries with your jungle enchant being juggernaut. Tabi after that for the armour and AA dmg reduction, followed by full tank(FH randuins, Thornmai, GA, SV). It provides you with the flexibility to either assist your team by peeling or run down their carries with your top/mid laner. You don't have the same burst as Triforce-Bork Eve but you get more utility and tank. Also if you still feel like you take too much damage or fall behind early on, you can get the skirmishers blade allowing to to cut one person's DPS on you by 20% and deal true damage to them. Also my build allows your team to run one AD in a solo lane without feeling like you have no/minimal AP threat.

Koechophe1 votes

It's still subpar. In that situation, you're spending all of your money to have your only real utility be ryulis and liandry's. In that case you might as well just go amumu who has a built-in liandry's effect in addition to tons of cc. Ultimitely, being a delivery system for on-hit effects is never an ideal situation.

Fyzzex1 votes

Shall we settle this by saying its situational at best so I may have some dignity xD. jk but in all honesty it feels as though my build does force itself into a niche where you need an AP threat on your team, already locked eve and got set behind early on, so i can understand how you see it as subpar. I suppose I'm trying to expose something that isn't truly there and am fighting when there's no need to.

Tilomentry1 votes

I agree that letting Eve be an assassin again is probably not the way to go. Assassination from stealth a load of BS (and one of the reasons why Shaco and Rengar can be awful to play against) and I would rather see her become a fighter/bruiser.

Personally I think that her kit can very easily be changed to work like a bruiser kit without too much mechanical changes. For instance she already has a low CD spammable skill that can serve as her main threat generating DPS (much in the way that Amumu has his tears, Hecarim has his swingy spear thing, Sejuani, Shyvanna, and Mundo all have their damage Auras, etc). Her ult can be changed to scale off of her HP instead of her target's and then it can either have lower CD or higher CC and serve as a strong initiation skill (It already kinda does but you know).

The only skill that's kind of out of place is her E. I imagine it would do something along the lines of more CC if she is to be closer to a bruiser/tank or some form of defense reduction for more of a fighter role.

Sean Sacred1 votes

[deleted]

Koechophe1 votes

Uhm, right now eve sucks hardcore. Her kit is ridiculously undertuned, the jungle beats the crap out of her, and when she comes in to gank, almost every laner can just kill her before she has an impact because she'll be underleveled and probably half dead. Eve was already suffering before the jungle changes, now with the loss of spirit stone and lizard elder, she's borderline UP. If you're losing to eve it means that you're not playing smart nor careful. Eve has a strong lvl 2 gank after the first buff. Don't push (top and mid especially) for the first ~6 minutes and eve is now negligible.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I agree with OP. I'd also add, it's difficult to counteract long-lasting stealth. Pink wards are largely useless because she is invisible ALL THE TIME. Unless you're pink warding right by your towers (where you can defend your pink ward, but where it's basically useless), it's going to be destroyed by the stealthed champion sooner or later, and then you're out 100g. It's like a jungler having a permanent raptors buff.

This is different from very brief stealth (Shaco, Talon, Akali, Rengar) because you can save pink wards and drop them when they use stealth (preparing to engage or disengage), and the rest of the time they are visible. Also, because their stealth is short-lasting, they aren't going to waste time trying to take out a pink ward during the engage/disengage.

Permanent-stealth champions have to have low numbers because they cannot easily be counterplayed, but this means that they either feed or get fed. This is also why they have high ratios -- you want to make sure that a fed Evelynn is just as useful as any other fed champion.

More from Gameplay

More by Koechophe