How is this +/- LP system in diamond working as intended for riot ?

option paralysis·Apr 11, 2019·27 votes·12,691 views

I'm still unranked on my acc because of this shit. Thank god I didn't start playing ranked before and get stuck in d4. I'm watching MidBeast and he has an 80% win rate in d4 and playing against d2's-d3's and he still gets +20/-15 LP, with a fucking 80% win rate.

Last 2-3 seasons I got to d4 with a 60%-65% win rate and thought that was pretty good, but I'm reading all over the place, people in d4 with a 60& win rate getting +15/-20................. why the actual fuck would I wanna start playing ranked ? So I can get tilted out of this earth for not being able to climb despite winning 60% of games ? What is this shit ? And the best part is riot is not saying anything about it, so for them, that's ok. I just can't handle this shit from riot anymore.

11 Comments

SaiannaApr 11, 20195 votes

Problem are smurfs that got to Diamond and stop playing and don't have their rank decay fast enough. They artifically filled in all the slots so the system has to increase the LP losses to speed up player-downgrades from diamond.

So you can thank smurfs for all of this BS.

It's kinda funny how smurfing is imploding the game, yet no action is being done to cripple this behavior. Oh wait.. Smurfing pumps up the active player count + all this info about more new players showing up, not to mention some of them buy RP. Yea.. no wonder they don't wanna fix it.

SkýcrowApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Problem are smurfs that got to Diamond and stop playing and don't have their rank decay fast enough. They artifically filled in all the slots so the system has to increase the LP losses to speed up player-downgrades from diamond.

So you can thank smurfs for all of this BS.

It's kinda funny how smurfing is imploding the game, yet no action is being done to cripple this behavior. Oh wait.. Smurfing pumps up the active player count + all this info about more new players showing up, not to mention some of them buy RP. Yea.. no wonder they don't wanna fix it.

Actually the reason for the low Lp gains diamond from platinum is because the mmr of the actual division is unchanged. Riot removed diamond 5 and made diamond 4 be the lowest division. But diamond 4 division has unchanged basic hidden mmr values.

What i'm trying to say is this: "In Season 8 Platinum 2 had 1850Mmr---- Platinum 1 had 1900mmr---- Diamond 5 had 2000MMR--- Diamond 4 had 2050MMR (this is just a example with the numbers)

Season 9: "diamond 5 got removed" but diamond 4 still has the 2050MMR value, which means whenever you promote into d4, your mmr is alot lower than you should have. There are diamond 4 actual players now + diamond 5 players in there, who are above platinum 1. But the diamond 5 players do not face the d4 players, they face the other diamond 5 players who do not show up as a d5 rank anymore but as d4. However Mostly of the time they have absurd low gains, and until they win around 7-8 + wins over looses in d4 division, they won't be able to see normal gains because they do not reach the mmr they need to for diamond 4 division.

Why did riot remove d5 then u ask? Don't ask me, i legit do not understand the reason for this, but hey they did, and now everyone is mad, because they didn't even explain it proberly which kinda sucks and was a lazy job from riots side, so only a few actually now know about it why this is being caused etc

Starcraft243verApr 11, 20193 votes

Hem, if you win 65% of your games and you get +15/-20, you are climbing.

0,65 x 15 - 0,35 x 20 = 2,75 > 0

Now the reason you need a good winrate to get through D4 is this :

https://i.imgur.com/T1BPnbT.png

3% of the player base is D4. 0,5% of the player base is D3.

Even if only half the D4 players deserve to climb, you just can't fit 1.5% of the player base in a 0,5% spot.

It just doesnt make sens.

Z3SleeperApr 11, 20192 votes

D4 is and always will be a cesspool of players who either barely made Diamond or got boosted to Diamond and both those types of players holding teammates down at least once a game every four weeks to prevent decay.

5StackUltOneShotApr 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

D4 is and always will be a cesspool of players who either barely made Diamond or got boosted to Diamond and both those types of players holding teammates down at least once a game every four weeks to prevent decay.

As a D4 player since season 6 I approve

RagnaveilApr 11, 20191 votes

That number in D3 would go up if Diamond wasn't full of boosters and people who make it to diamond and quit and just play games to maintain rank. I was at 63 lp and now im at 0, because heaven forbid I don't get a single match where someone isn't clearly out of their league and I'm not forced to dodge because someone first times jg and picks Kindred or picks Hec and goes 0/5 like every other jg Hec i've gotten in Dia since his buff.

ThingamajigApr 11, 20192 votes

winning 60% of your games in gold-plat to get to diamond then you get a 40% win rate for 20 games in diamond winning barely enough to not get demoted the system starts thinking you are boosted you start winning less than you are losing

the system is fine but you are lacking context on those numbers

usul1202Apr 11, 20191 votes

I hit d4 with a 60% win rate, and am currently receiving +20-15ish (think it mighta been 14).

SkýcrowApr 11, 20191 votes

WInrate does not matter. Your mmr won't get a boost, because you win alot of games. It's always the same gain. Also lp in generall catches up to the mmr, which means if u get around 18Lp you are around your actuall mmr gain per game from a win. If you get over 18Lp. You start to catch up towards your mmr. (let's write it super simple so that you can understand "20 lp x5 = 100LP + 2 wins = 1extra division) But the average mmr gain equals 8wins + for a entire division. this formula basically means, whenever you get 20+Lp you are increasing faster Lp wise, than mmr wise. This is why having a 80% wr does not matter.

You will already super fast climb with 80% wr, because you basically win 8 out of 10games. But that doesn't mean that you suddenly should get increased mmr gains for no reason. I can win all games in bronze silver and gold if i want, does that mean the system should give me all of a sudden double mmr gains, so that i get a lucky winstreak into diamond, hit 90% actual winrate, and have a mmr that skyrocked to master elo for no reason? no. That would fuck up the entire system. Your mmr gain is not influenced by winrate. it's always a fix value that only differs very very slightly, which is almost not noticeable.

(also the posts here are starting to be slightly annoying, it seems like you guys just simply do not understand riots mmr system, which shouldnt be that hard to figure out if u think logically a bit about it...)

Ulquiorra0123Apr 12, 20191 votes

Listen, Diamond LP gain is going to be lower than Bronze LP gain because you should have to put in the same effort the people above you have put in to climb. Those people have hundreds of games, maintain a 60%+ win rate, so either put in that same amount of effort and win rate, or don't climb. It just seems like people forget its supposed to be difficult to climb from the top 2% to the top 1%...