Nerf redemption/locket again or buff other support items.

option paralysis·Apr 22, 2017·58 votes·2,547 views

I'm fucking tired of building these 2 items. Every support, doesn't make a difference which, just build fuckin' and you're good. I'd like if I could try ardent first or maybe even athene's or god forbid some other ap items, but I simply can't. You lose teamfights for sure if the enemy supp has a 500 hp aoe heal and a 500 hp aoe shield. They're just too strong and they messed up the whole support itemization. I mean when you see building it too, you know things are fucked up.

45 Comments

SpecterVonBarenApr 22, 201715 votes

The problem is that supports have to build their gold item and sightstone first and then have to get boots because lanning phase is over by the time they get all that and by then the best items to get are teamfight items. The other support items are much better suited for lanning phase when you're only with your carry and they could help you make a difference in a 2v2 fight but by the time you can buy them lanning phase is over.

DeusVultApr 23, 20176 votes

^this

the other support items are "good" but by the time you are able to afford them, its ~20 minutes, at which point being able to shield/heal 5 people at once is far more gold efficient than item 3109 item 3060 item 3222 item 3050 item 3504

item 3190 item 3107 are stronger only because they can consistently hit 5 people on your team, making them impactful as a first major buy for supports

Champion SkinApr 23, 20173 votes

item 3050 is potentially absurdly strong and good giving your ADC up to 50% increased AA DPS (75% if they have IE) but that does require the ADC to have 50% crit chance or less

And it's stats and build path is quite horrible (not many champions want that combination of stats) and it is just way too unreliable

It Hertz When IPApr 23, 20171 votes

If they made the boost grant increased % physical damage, even if it was only 15%, that'd still be better than crit bonus on an ADC already at 80+% crit. It would also let me shift binding to the jungler/toplaner once my ADC's fed enough to not need it.

Weasel KenseiApr 23, 20171 votes

You have no control over when the stacks "pop" so the value of the passive is wasted every time you cant go all in with it.

It wasnt too bad before the marksman update, but they build more crit now making it stat inefficient and the aforementioned RNG passive that you cant always take advantage of isnt reliable enough compared to pretty much any other option.

Ironically its built less often than the Zekes item it replaced.

HeroquetApr 23, 20172 votes

Didn't see any play even in the previous arpen fiesta. The build path must have been designed to be somewhat useful to either enchanters or tanky supports... so half-assed for both.

Right now it's only useful if you're Sona / Soraka VS a full ad team. You got some stats that will be used (and it's still barely cost effective before the active).

And having the active proc on something like... a fed renekton makes some fine youtube material.

Still needs to be changed.

MuzétApr 22, 20174 votes

Na they should buff other support item. Ardent Censer is niche and more relevant early than late game. Zeke isn't build at all. Mikael..; I don't even want to talk about it. Athene's even tho Karma/Sona should build it they don't.

option paralysisApr 22, 20173 votes

holy shit, I forgot that zekes exists. lol and mikaels has 20% heals and shields power but you never see it anyway.

QuickenedBladeApr 22, 20172 votes

mikaels is good in high elo

i rush it or ardent depending on comps

MuzétApr 22, 20171 votes

You usually never see it because people seems to prefer dmg more than CC. Furthermore the stats are lacking a bit.

KrinuApr 22, 20173 votes

Mikael's is great on Soraka. Extra healing, decent passives.

MuzétApr 23, 20171 votes

The passive is far from decent until you have enough Mana Regen (Harmony the chalice one) The extra healing ok. But nothing more since item 3123 is dominating.

Champion SkinApr 23, 20171 votes

Ehh... % health regen is pretty bad on Soraka (I think she is one of the champions with the worst HP regen in the game) since Riot gutted Soraka's health regen wanting her to have to land Q to gain back her health

And since % health regen works of base health it is quite weak on champions with low base HP regen (though of course it is still something just not much)

So even with mana regen it isn't great.....

HeroquetApr 23, 20171 votes

I agree the harmony passive is a unstated big nerf on every mikael user (because the +100% lost mana regen was used for more heals, and quite effective ones at that).

But +20% heal translates to + 120 AP in lvl 5 W and lvl 3 R for Soraka, while boosting the AP ratios, so it's still much better than building 2 NLR.

MuzétApr 23, 20171 votes

Well the harmony passive increase HP regen according to MP Regen. Usually it starts getting useful when you have 2 or 3 Mana Regen item.

Yeah HPRegen sucks a lot on raka and that's why I've got a rune page just for her with HP Regen in it.

SilverjustApr 22, 20171 votes

I recently read somwhere an idea for athenes, that works with stacks that you have to proc by damaging enemies to get the bonus heal

MuzétApr 23, 20172 votes

Dunno about it, but they should just make it uncapped, increase premitigation or increase a bit AP/MR

Champion SkinApr 23, 20171 votes

Well item 3050 is really weird...

It has so much power... (on average it gives 50% (75% if the ADC have IE) increased AA damage and the ADC have 50% or less crit) but it's build path (and stats) are quite awkward and it is so unreliable that is a horrible item (almost all of time... maybe somebody got it to work but I wouldn't count on it)

So good but also so bad... what is up with this item....

item 3222 ... the active is potentially quite powerful and good.... but the stats/cost should probably be looked at...

HeroquetApr 23, 20171 votes

As always with riot and the niche support items, many are designed to be somewhat effective for both tanky and enchanters supports. Zeke bring a little bit of tankyness with a little bit of mana / AP, Redeption gives both HP and +heal / shield, Athene gives MR and AP, Mikael mregen / MR...

Half assed.

Weasel KenseiApr 23, 20171 votes

item 3050 was released before the marksman update.

Most ADCs only built 2 crit items, item 3031 and either item 3087 or item 3046 and there were a few other items that had crit also like item 3142 . Yeah, Ghostblade had crit at one point.

At anyrate most ADCs hit a maximum of 50% crit with 2 items. That was enough. Zekes was actualy decent back then, then season 6 came and by the end of the first month or so it was gone. ADCs where hitting 60% crit almost as fast as the supports could finish the item. Made it less gold effcient to buy into wasted stats on the passive cause of lost crit.

It may actually see some play however in some Xayah Rakan comps. But honestly there are better items to build almost always, but it has its most potential there.

StoryDuckApr 23, 20173 votes

You...never play support do you?

Zeke is good for many ADCs they just are not played often atm. Jinx, Kog'maw, and MF are all great candidates for Zeke.

Mikael is still a strong item for Soraka and Janna.

Athene is terrible on Sona support. Karma likes it enough but the real powerhouse that synchronizes with Athene? Nami, by far Nami is the best support for this item. Every W bounces between damage, heal, damage or heal, damage, heal. You always get to proc it.

Cling ClingApr 23, 20171 votes

I've actually considered buying this item. However, with only six slots I can't support it without having a percentage heal boost. I'm currently using item 3107 item 3190 item 3504

MuzétApr 23, 20171 votes

https://snag.gy/HSxyjw.jpg I never played support :)

Zeke isn't good atm. Adc are exceding the 50% most of the time. Maybe except Kog (who is good atm).

Mikael is strong for Janna not for Raka. The passive isn't enough for her to keep up with the given stats.

Nami I get your point but I don't think that it won't be worth it compared to a heavy oriented AP item like Rabadon.

SpoofghoulApr 22, 20173 votes

Have u got any clue m8

The other support items are just as broken right now if not more

They just don't have equally high game changing ''high moments'' redemption/locket are a bit more directly impactful in team fights

But i have had games where i healed for over 100k with censor and athene, tell me how that isn't broken

ClementineApr 22, 20179 votes

Athene's is broken? Zeke's is broken? Ohmwrecker is broken? Mikaels is broken?? Banner of Command is broken?

you have no clue what you're talking about lol

TotalJerkApr 23, 20173 votes

Athene's is basically a mid lane item again. The "support" mids are the only ones building it. The problem is that the passive requires you to do damage, and to do damage you need AP, but none of the top tier support items give any AP.

ClementineApr 23, 20172 votes

cool what about the other ones

SpoofghoulApr 23, 20171 votes

I totally said zekes, ohmwrecker, banner and mikaels were broken . . .

Nice straw man bro

I was pointing at censor & athene, since athene uses damage done before resistances 2 basic attacks from a support fill it up pretty much, or 1 ability like braum Q for example or janna Q

Anyway every support can use those items if they grab stoneborn

just try it with brand and heimerdinger for example, get your rylais, permaslow and spamheal

it's disgusting how much you heal

It's a tad more balanced on other supports but still disgusting if you know what you are doing You can perma earth rune your opponent with a frozen mallet or rylais they are perma slowed and your adc heals for days when attacking them

And while the other ''support items'' arent that great nobody builds them anyways but that has, for some of them, to do with more reasons then just the items being shit

you can even make a case for banner/ohmwrecker that they are not purely support items but can also be utilized by other roles and they are partly shitty because of weak towers

Zekes is just garbage because its just a hodge podge of stats that nobody really can make the bets use out of, and the active is so unreliable

But mikeals is ok, it has a powerful active which allows for a cleanse + speedboost thats pretty strong imo The stats arent so bad either. I think people just miss the old burst heal it gave which didn't really require your adc to be anything more then a potato for it to be useful. The speedboost is arguably more potent because the repositioning allows for better safety to prevent more damage then the heal could ever heal

Overal i think a lot of support items are too regen focused. They could do better then that imo Nobody needs 500% mana regen They could put more armor or mr or hp instead

StarboyˇApr 23, 20172 votes

And I'm sick of buying sightstone every game

Chromatic EagleApr 23, 20171 votes

Why?

Im A Jayce GodApr 23, 20172 votes

item 3060 is my favorite item because you can make your own army it feels like, but its too weak to use :(

MorgManBasherApr 23, 20172 votes

It's like you like being useless on support. lol The moment they nerf those items and never buff the others are the moment I'll only play Mage supports.

k wìxApr 22, 20171 votes

I know its an unpopular opinion, but I honestly think both of the items are overrated. They are fantastic, don't get me wrong, but I don't think they are that busted.

DarkRitualApr 23, 20172 votes

It's more that other support items are just terrible in comparison.

RequiemsfireApr 23, 20171 votes

Except other support items are crumby/situational or simply unreliable.

Troll for TrumpApr 23, 20171 votes

They're buffing support items on PBE right now though..

chipndip1Apr 23, 20171 votes

More people have to care. League of Locket's always fucking broken shall continue until then.

SanKakUApr 23, 20171 votes

I think players are making the assumption that Redemption is super powerful because it's purchased so much. The reason players buy it so much isn't because of it's power, but because it's a foolproof item to buy. If you have healing or shielding for allies, it is viable. The average player doesn't bother to consider what's best in specific situations, they only care about what's good enough all of the time. That's why items like Redemption are so popular.