"I am a champion who wants mana as a resource because:"

Uiru··5 votes·766 views

This list is currently empty. (Piss off, Ryze.)

Someone apparently thought that mages being able to buy one item to neutralize their mana problems was a bad thing. This is ludicrous because of the insane number of champions who don't have to buy an item at all to manage their resource, either because their resource is a joke or they don't have one at all. Imagine if Akali, Zed, or Lee Sin started with 100 energy and needed to spend 800something gold to get 200. The tears would be fully stacked instantly.

As things are, ap mages cannot harass their manaless opponents because they will have to back almost immediately, even after Chalice. They get to harass you all day without issue, and a lot of them get sustain so anything that does land is laughed off. Or you go oom knocking them to half and then by the time you can start scraping minions off your tower they've healed enough of it back to survive a tower dive.

Are mana champions stronger than manaless? No, and not because they're mana champions. If all mages suddenly had no mana to deal with, Zed would still stomp them in lane. There is simply no tradeoff for having mana as a resource anymore; you aren't stronger, you aren't tankier, you don't have more cc. You used to be forced to spend money that manaless champs got to spend on damage items buying one item to mitigate your resource issues, now you have to build two or more full ones just to keep up.

Mages were in a crappy spot BEFORE mana regen got nerfed across the board. Yeah mages get great items eventually, they have to. Who wants to be a mage in this game? Nobody with any sense, that's who.

Random ideas:

  1. Make mana do something other than gate. Damage bonus % or damage reduction % the more maximum mana you have. This makes building actual mana desireable on more than just Ryze. Have these kick in only when your ap is higher than your bonus ad so adcs don't fluke into them with tf (they need to be building mage versions for the mage effects).
  2. Make mage autos based on ap. I don't know why this already isn't done. Give them a max mana bonus too so they can do something while oom, which is going to be often if nothing is done. No reason for adcs to be able to do this and not apcs, especially since we don't want them casting spells ever. Most mages have modest range anyway so even with strong autos they're going to put themselves at risk doing it.
  3. Mana regen aura near towers. Makes taking towers even more of a good idea, while allowing mana gated champs to stay in lane longer against the free harass and waveclear of their opponents.
  4. Mana return based on damage done, across the board. Skillshot reliant ap mages should get more, as a reward for proper aiming.
  5. Mage autos now double mana regen for a few seconds on champs and towers. (AP > bonus AD for this effect too.)
  6. Unnerf mana regen. :p Let us go back to being forced to buy one item just to stay in lane when everybody else gets to have fun right away. That was working fine for everyone (other than people who whine about how good mage items are without understanding why, of course, but these people should not be making decisions).

Or we can just shunt out an entire class of champs for no reason. That works too. ~Uiru

15 Comments

Drunk Rummate3 votes

I don't struggle with managing my mana. Have you tried buying mana potions? Morellonomicon gives great mana regen but there's a period between level 6-13 where you can go oom very easily without potions.

Mana gating for this season is good because it prevents mages like Ziggs and Xerath from clearing waves to infinity. Games got stalled because they never ran out of mana by spamming two basic spells to instantly clear their minion wave. Now if you use more than 1 spell per wave you run out of mana fairly quickly, which brings a sense of urgency to the stalling team unless they have secure control over their blue buff.

It also stopped a lot of mages from building 40% CDR and becoming somewhat oppressive due to nonstop casting w/ infinite mana from athenes.

Uiru1 votes

If Ziggs and Xerath's waveclear is a problem, I can think of a better way to deal with it than fucking over all mages, many of whom might not have quite that level of waveclear.

And yes, I have been buying mana potions. They're pretty underwhelming, though.

Game doesn't seem to have a problem with adcs' nonstop autos. ~Uiru

Epilogue of Life2 votes

Lol meanwhile lategame Zed runs out of energy under 3 seconds, and you mages get to spam for like half a minute before having to worry about dat mana. Energy is really a early game kind of thing, since the amount of spamming required in teamfights makes you run out extremely fast..and even early game, you'd run out of energy for 2 seconds, and that's when the enemy engages you and takes 80% of your HP away.

Uiru1 votes

And early game is when you don't need to be making trips back to base just so you can defend yourself from their free tower dives. If you're leaving lane three times to their two you're giving them significant push/roam potential, based entirely on the fact that you have a meaningful resource to manage and they don't. ~Uiru

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Yea, like how Nasus gets shit on by Akali early game but 1v5s after 40 mins....nobody complained about nasus being UP

deadlychuck1 votes

lol at least zed can kill a 4k health 200armor tank with a full burst.

Epilogue of Life1 votes
  • I just saw a 480 armor Sion the other day with over 4k health...
Kowe The Ewok1 votes

While mana costs aren't that limituing I agree with one point:

There is no trade-off for not having mana anymore. Energy used to have high cost (Shen E..) or long cooldown (Garen). But every since the release of Lee and further releases of champions like Rengar or Zed Energy has become a hoax. These champions are ever dominant even after several nerfs (well at least Lee and Rengar, for somewhat reason Zed is the new lovechild of Riot and stays broken as heck for ages).

The trade off for having not to worry about mana was lost long ago. The should reduce the max energy so people actually have to sacrifice some runes for their infinite sustain.

Junkο1 votes

Rengar doesn't use energy. And Lee and Zed being used as an excuse to say that energy has no trade-offs NOW while Lee has existed since Season 1 and Zed was released in Season 2 is just dumb and stupid. You people are just being mad that you can't buy Athene and get another CDR item to instantly clear waves and get tons of cs without effort what's so ever. Also Shen never had a problem until his E hitbox got nerfed to hell. It used to be so big that it was IMPOSSIBLE to miss an E and stun everyone unless you tried. And his E energy return was really really high. Akali was released 3 weeks after Shen and had WORSE energy problems(that she still has and i don't like playing her cause of them).

for somewhat reason Zed is the new lovechild of Riot and stays broken as heck for age

You mentioned LEE SIN and you declare Zed the love child. LEE SIN HAS BEEN OVERLOADED FOR 5 FUCKING SEASONS ARE YOU SERIOUS? Let's not even forget the fact that Zed was nerfed twice on release, Lee sin has been BUFFED and then received nothing but love taps.

Also no i shouldn't have to spent 3k IP for an advantage in game, runes already have too big of an impact we don't need more.

Junkο1 votes

Akali is REALLY energy hungry. The only spell that gives her energy back is on a huge CD and it also eats most of the energy it was supposed to give back, and her W eats a ton also. Her R gives the illusion of 0 energy costs, but they are actually terrible. Don't even get me started on Shen or Kennen. Zed W energy reg should be toned down though (at least early game) Kat E(her only escape that she uses to go in) and ult are also on a fairly high cooldown if you can't proc your passive, which against a good player you won't. Garen has terribly high cooldowns and is fairly weak atm. Riven needs to be reworked. Rengar also has fairly high cooldowns on most of his spells, the problem is that he has WAY too many passives including CDR while also building CDR items and having empowered spells with separate CDs. All health based champions (Aatrox, Vladimir, Morde, Zac, Mundo) are thrash tier because their in built mechanics to counter their health costs are really problematic to deal with so they aren't allowed to be viable.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

There is simply no tradeoff for having mana as a resource anymore; you aren't stronger, you aren't tankier, you don't have more cc.

The tradeoff you're supposed to get with mana is that you can operate at full power for longer before burning out, but you have a long term cost to pay when you do so. You mentioned Zed -- if he spams his stuff he's out of energy in 1.5 rotations. Even a really mana hungry champion like Orianna gets about 5 rotations of her stuff before going oom.

Or we can just shunt out an entire class of champs for no reason. That works too.

Mana champions are currently doing quite well. It's fairly common to see a game with 10 mana champs in it.

Uiru1 votes

I used the word "mages" a lot for a reason.

Also I've been playing Orianna for first wins in bots (busy these days) and she runs out of mana superfast, even with Athene's. ~Uiru

ImHerVoice1 votes

welcome to riots balancing. Resources don't exist in this game. Only how many times you can press a key until you finger falls off. I'm glad to see mana nerfs. Means all the wave clears can't clear and harass. They actually have th choose. AS for champions like broken zed.. he's always been broken so whats the difference now? Simple, riot fiinally balancing out wave clear mages.

deadlychuck1 votes

If they did what your idea 2 suggest then there would literally be no reason for AP and AD to exist separately in the game. The only difference would be one is green and the other is orange.

futuresight231 votes

I imagine Zac might be a champ that would be ok with mana as it would give him an excuse to rush Rod of Ages without getting called a noob.

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