Riot is buffing and buffing assassins to obscene levels just because supports are really broken and can invalidate them, and this is terrible for the game.
Because supports and assassins arent the 2 only classes in the game.
Can we just stop this and nerf supports already? It would both reduce powercreep and make assassins competitive in 1 go, now you're adding even more broken shit like stormrazor for ad assassins...
Boltonator63 votesSo supports AND Assassins are OP but you only want to nerf supports...
[zombie-brand-mindblown]
Lol, so many elitists downvoting me, it’s amazing...
Edge of Daybreak36 votesAssassins are being buffed to retarded levels because supports are already there riot needs to tone down supports so this stops. Supports need to be decent but as of now they essentially nullify everything you do with little effort. A 16/0 assassin is the same as an 0/16 assassin in the eyes of supports. It's gonna reach the point where if the support isnt there you are dead no matter what and if they are you have no reason to care about the assassin.
Boltonator14 votesAssassins are being buffed to retarded levels because supports are already there riot needs to tone down supports so this stops. Supports need to be decent but as of now they essentially nullify everything you do with little effort. A 16/0 assassin is the same as an 0/16 assassin in the eyes of supports.
I believe the sole job of a support is to protect the ADC from assassins, it is their job description and, as such, have tools designed to make assassins lives miserable.
A 4-0 Zed vs a 4-0 ADC with a support with their head in the game will result in a dead assassin and, potentially, a flame war on the opposing side.
A 4-0 Zed vs an 0-4 ADC will more than likely result in the ADC being shredded despite the supports efforts to save their adc.
See where I’m going with this? You’re trying to 2v1 an even matchup score-wise when your chances of success aren’t even remotely close to achievable without some sort of handicap in your favor...or if the enemy support isn’t paying attention.
In addition, the OP is asking solely for nerfs to supports which, outside of removing their CC/shields (a result which would outright nullify even playing support in the first place) you will rarely have the edge in a 2v1 as an assassin against an ADC/Support with even scores/builds.
Edge of Daybreak12 votesFirst i'm gonna put this separately but most assassin players don't expect to just hard 2v1 that something the boards claims. We just can't post anything here so we don't bother to say anything about it.
As for your examples the adc in both situations isn't what's going to determine zeds success. it's purely up to the support. Assassins may have the tools to wreck ADC's but now that people have learned to never leave the adc alone there isnt much you can do but hope you are massively better than them.
In a 5v5 you as the assassin have one job. kill priority targets. the problem is the support doesnt need to burn as many spells to stop you as you do to succeed. Lulu and janna being a glaring issue imo can stop multiple assailants with relative ease. If you are alone then it just becomes all the easier. Most new adcs have tools to save themselves already but now supports are also running around with a lot more power which essentially erased assassins from competitive.
I am bringing up competitive because a lot of the current assassin changes are to make it so they exist in pro. As for solo they are obviously fine even a little dumb but as a guy who primarily plays assassins with a mix of support every now and then in my opinion supports are able to do too much for too little.
We arent asking for riot to remove their cc and shields we just want some toning down. Watching a support just spam shields on people with no regard to whether it's needed or not is a little obnoxious in my opinion.
AMYS GRAVE6 votesFirst i'm gonna put this separately but most assassin players don't expect to just hard 2v1 that something the boards claims.
Ok then, so ...
In a 5v5 you as the assassin have one job. kill priority targets. the problem is the support doesnt need to burn as many spells to stop you as you do to succeed. ... [clip] ... Most new adcs have tools to save themselves already but now supports are also running around with a lot more power which essentially erased assassins from competitive.
The adc is focusing you, and the support is blocking you, but that situation you described isn't a 2v1? You've just created a 4v3 for your team on the other side of the fight if the adc and the support are both dealing with you.... You lament that the boards claim you are expecting to be able to 2v1 and you say that isn't the case, then immediately describe a situation where you're acting helpless because two people are working to stop just you in a teamfight. Make up your mind, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Edge of Daybreak3 votesOk then, so ...
The adc is focusing you, and the support is blocking you, but that situation you described isn't a 2v1? You've just created a 4v3 for your team on the other side of the fight if the adc and the support are both dealing with you.... You lament that the boards claim you are expecting to be able to 2v1 and you say that isn't the case, then immediately describe a situation where you're acting helpless because two people are working to stop just you in a teamfight. Make up your mind, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
I literally said nothing about the adc focusing you just grabbed that out of thin air and honestly you are proving my point you just put words in my post that are not there and used it to strawman
AMYS GRAVE4 votesI'm not strawmanning you, you said it right here -
Most new adcs have tools to save themselves already but now supports are also running around with a lot more power which essentially erased assassins from competitive.
That's a direct quote where you say ADCs are peeling you themselves AND the supports are busy peeling you, so two people are focused on peeling just you off their adc.
Edge of Daybreak1 votesI'm not strawmanning you, you said it right here -
That's a direct quote where you say ADCs are peeling you themselves AND the supports are busy peeling you, so two people are focused on peeling just you off their adc.
That's not anywhere close to the adc is focusing you and you know it because it's common knowledge of what people mean when they say someone is focusing you and that translates to actually attackng you. I said that that adc's have their own defensive tools that in no way defaults to peel. In that situation it would just be you and the adc. How does the adc being able to save themselves from death in a purely 1v1 situation equate to they are killing you in a 1v2 with the support? That's a straight up strawman.
AMYS GRAVE2 votesIf you didn't mean to say what i quoted you as saying then that's not the same thing as me making a strawman argument. I directly quoted exactly what you said so if you didn't mean that then you have to elaborate.
The Yetii Rider3 votesThe entire point of a shield is to counter burst, though.
Ryusaether1 votesOk so make it last 2-3 sec (that's fairly enough for a burst, am ai right?) or make then decay early after cast so that timing is actually important and opponents have a window for counterplay if you missplay it, and not leave supports as shieldbots who spam their E (it's almost always E) with 45% CDr (which they find in EVERY SINGLE SUPP ITEM) and like 0.5s downtime where the one who needs to be shielded just has to back literally half a second, without counting self peel.
Assassins were already (in)famous in soloQ in this last period, I haven't been playing mages with the new patch but it seems that the effects of the nerfs are showing and I think they are trying to force midlane interactions by nerfing mana and basically telling you "duh, here, you can take manaflow band to get more mana, but have to hit champs" which is KINDA fine (though I don't like forced playstyles) but should give better rewards. Why should I go for an interactive laning phase against someone who can blow me up lvl 3 (almost every assassin has that factor, sure you can bully them early but hehe now you will easily run OoM)? Don't get me wrong, I liked going for trades with Viktor against the likes of Zed and Fizz, trying to get them low before lvl 3 so they couldn't all-in me, but I have to affort a 1250g back now, how can I stay in lane for that long considering poke, clear and possible enemy ganks to force my back or just straight up kill me? I would like it if they accompanied these mana nerfs (I too don't like people carelessly spamming abilities and never going OoM, and find it boring to just powerfarm, that's why I moved top) with decent AP buffs so that you will use less but more impactful abilities, thus punishing you for bad use but rewarding you for hitting them. And no, spellbinder going +20 AP and reducing extra stacks AP by 20 as well (thus being more reliable) isn't enough because that item is really situational and few champs buy it (however the new active MS looks REALLY neat on some champs, like some battle mages).
The Yetii Rider1 votesMages were already strong. You don't need to buff mages as compensation while you nerf them.
Assassins are stronger early. Yes. They are also stronger 1v1. Yes. There is no issue with that. Mages are better in 1v2 or 1v3 situations.
Supports have very low base movement speed. If you reduce the duration of the shield that basically means they can't even leave anyone's side to go ward, they HAVE to be right next to the person they need to protect at any given moment.
Ryusaether1 votesMages were strong but for annoying reasons like uninteractive waveclear and roam and utility, nothing more than that. Since they want to push other roles to be able to carry in different stages of the game and to push mages botlane, I'm all up to nerf their ability to spam spells even further, but increase the rewards for using them in interactive trades, and more AP would do this and make them someone you could revolve around to deal damage lategame that is not just your adc (sure mages already do that now, but it doesn't happen that often).
And I'm fine with assassins being stronger in 1v1, just don't like the reasoning in pushing mages to duel them in this state.
Supports have low MS, though ADCs have to Kite so they will run and stop everytime and the major offenders (hello 
) have built in MS or MS boosts to help them reposition, and their shields aren't actually that low in range.
Emo Twink4 votesI believe the sole job of a support is to protect the ADC from assassins, it is their job description and, as such, have tools designed to make assassins lives miserable.
A 4-0 Zed vs a 4-0 ADC with a support with their head in the game will result in a dead assassin and, potentially, a flame war on the opposing side.
A 4-0 Zed vs an 0-4 ADC will more than likely result in the ADC being shredded despite the supports efforts to save their adc.
See where I’m going with this? You’re trying to 2v1 an even matchup score-wise when your chances of success aren’t even remotely close to achievable without some sort of handicap in your favor...or if the enemy support isn’t paying attention.
In addition, the OP is asking solely for nerfs to supports which, outside of removing their CC/shields (a result which would outright nullify even playing support in the first place) you will rarely have the edge in a 2v1 as an assassin against an ADC/Support with even scores/builds.
People just hate that supports counter assassins. Assassins arent always meant to be good since theyre meant to catch people out of position etc.
remakoro22 votesYou never played support, right? When 0/16 "assassin" jumps out you might as well just whoop his dumb ass urself. When 16/0 assassin jump on your adc you fucking pray that one Q that assassin will land before CC will take place wont kill him so dead he will fucking DC. You run around your adc with "little effort" cuz if you get away for more than 300 units there is a good chance random Kha will just fuck him up before you can say "AH". You walk away for one second to ward nearest brush and lose 90% of your HP with just AA and some basic ability hitting you, and you are happiest person on the rift. cuz you dont know how you even stayed alive. That shit should have been fatal. Yea dude. 0/16 and 16/0 assassin totally the same thing. Im not even talking about differences in mechanics those two are bound to have. Differences that make it laughable to deal with first one and grueling to fight the second one.
Xonra2 votesNo they are being buffed to retarded levels for a lot more reasons than just supports. Supports have nothing to do with waveclear mid, and that is why mages were hit (a bit too hard it feels as it is SUPER easy to go oom in half the time). Sure, shields suck and all blah blah, but people are using Supports as the scapegoat.
I can promise you are going to have an entirely new set of issues that fixes nothing you think it needs to if you nerf supports. All you are going to have is longer queue times and unstoppable assassins, no mages, and adcs getting completely shit on.
Edge of Daybreak2 votesYes mages are a part of the problem too but riot is trying to address that right now. Assassins having to actually take risk is an issue in pro which is what most of all of these changes have been based around as well as the ease of stopping them due to a combination of delays and melee ranges. Most supports defining factors are for the most part low to no counterplay and very powerful effects attached to that. Assassins may have little counterplay as well however outside of kat you arent going to see an on par assassin having nearly as much affect in a fight as a support will. As they can affect multiple champions while you usually an only do anything meaningful to one. Now in some cases you could say yeah that champion who is single target is probably going to have a lot more affect thatn a champion with AOE. Unfortunately this isnt the case right now with what assassisn bring to a team vs what mages and supports.
You cant promise that at all unless you can literally show me a vision of the future or the change they make is something blatantly obvious like the lee sin rework they proposed. We have nerfed supports as a class quite a few times in the past. This has never resulted in supports vanishing. We have nerfed mages a lot more than supports. We went from having assassins in pro to almost never having assassins in pro despite consistent assassin buffs and consistent mage nerfs. The power of assassins is basically a sliding scale where the closer you are to bronze the more dominant the closer you are to pro the more non-existent.
Steel Blossom5 votesSo supports AND Assassins are OP but you only want to nerf supports...
[zombie-brand-mindblown]
Man, I can see that you don't even play ranked and all, but is it really that hard to understand that we need to nerf supports first so that assassins can be nerfed without them collectively dropping to sub-20% winrate overnight?
Also, I find it funny that you would say a support should play solely around keeping an ADC alive. Look at this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaPNLRNy3Jk , and see what Tabe is attempting to do. THIS is a support, a team utility that is versatile between offense and defense. If you want to be passive and make reactionary plays 100% of the time, you might as well uninstall League and go watch paint dry on a wall.
Boltonator10 votes[{quoted}](name=Steel Blossom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2nOTjlj,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-05-02T03:39:23.213+0000)
Man, I can see that you don't even play ranked and all, but is it really that hard to understand that we need to nerf supports first so that assassins can be nerfed without them collectively dropping to sub-20% winrate overnight?
Also, I find it funny that you would say a support should play solely around keeping an ADC alive. Look at this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaPNLRNy3Jk , and see what Tabe is attempting to do. THIS is a support, a team utility that is versatile between offense and defense. If you want to be passive and make reactionary plays 100% of the time, you might as well uninstall League and go watch paint dry on a wall.
So because I don’t play ranked that immediately invalidates anything I might say? How very elitist of you...
All I was addressing was the fact that he said both supports and assassins are op yet he only called for the head of the support.
Then again I’m just a support main who doesn’t play ranked so everything I say must immediately be downvoted to purgatory. You are the primary reason I don’t do ranked- I would rather not associate myself with Neanderthals who think their birthday should be a national holiday and that their words can turn water into wine.
[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Xonra3 votes"How very elitist of you..." Welcome to the boards, where anyone with zero valid arguments will just insult your rank, because if they tried to come up with any semblance of a counter point it would show how little THEY actually know about the game.
You'd be surprised how little knowledge even some of my diamond friends have, but they love shit talking. People think mechanics 100% = game knowledge and just mock people.
It would be like someone talking about chess being trash talked because they "don't even play ranked chess" by some guy played a few ranked matches of chess and mostly played Candy Land and somehow that qualifies them to trash talk people.
Zone of Endless20 votesbut but but if they nerfed support no one would play them :^)))))))))))))))))))
remakoro6 votesIf i playe as for example. Use every ability and item at my disposal 
and wont be able to save my target in 1 vs 2 ANYWAY. Yea i will stop playing support.
Which still happens btw. When people get killed in less than 1s and you cant even react. And even if you do animation times or projectile speed wont allow you to actually prevent it. At best - avenge if you have another person nearby.
Whats the point of playing support if you are simply taking up valuable slot? I can just take APC on bot. And after sucking %#&! for half the game i will be perfectly able to kill almost anyone on the map myself.
As people actially did a lot 
before it turned into - pick enchanter or get fucked.
Handy Sandy 3 votesIf i playe as
Whats the point of playing support if you are simply taking up valuable slot? I can just take APC on bot. And after sucking %#&! for half the game i will be perfectly able to kill almost anyone on the map myself. As people actially did a lot
you're ass at support then
remakoro4 votesAnd at least 3/4 of players much assier at that than me. (im being really humble here). You can start thinking what that means.
Azeranth1 votes[{quoted}](name=Zone of Endless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2nOTjlj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-02T02:29:54.981+0000)
but but but if they nerfed support no one would play them :^)))))))))))))))))))
I hate this belef. I main support, I love it, because I play real support like Alistar, Leona, Thresh, and BLitz. Janna and Lulu mains can go eat a dick, nerf sheild supports.
Xonra2 votesI like how 3 of the 4 "real supports" you named were not even supposed to be supports when they were released, and the 2 "eat a dick" shield supports actually were.
Grats there genius.
Azeranth1 votesWell, perhaps Riot will start realizing that healthy and enjoyable supports are nothing like the ones they designed
Xonra1 votesOr maybe YOU will start realizing the game isn't just balanced and created around you, and what you enjoy and find "healthy" isn't the same for everyone else and everything else.
You are clearly biased, and that's okay, until you start trying to claim it to be a factual statement from your own opinion.
Azeranth1 votesMy opinion isn't formed from the aether. I have a littany of reasons both objective observations and personal experience. Being a belief doesn't dismiss out of hand what I have to say, you're ignoring the reasons behind what I believe
ChaddyFantome1 votesI hate this belef. I main support, I love it, because I play real support like Alistar, Leona, Thresh, and BLitz. Janna and Lulu mains can go eat a dick, nerf sheild supports.
I can stunlock people with braindead chain CC for a free kill I is REAL support!!!
u cereal?
Azeranth1 votesI can stunlock people with braindead chain CC for a free kill I is REAL support!!!
u cereal?
Yeah I'm serious, because I actually have to land that. Oh and fun fact, all those champions have engage, you know what they don't have? disengage. Its a high risk high reward playstyle, that relies on landing difficult comboes and skill shots. I'm sorry your too slow to dodge them, or too oblivious to outposition them, but if the Thresh, Ali, Leona, or Blitz is on you, its cause you made a mistake, and they didn't
Xonra2 votesI mean, yeah. If you weren't able to do your job as a class, while assassins shit on everyone, people would stop playing support.
You are trying to be funny cause you people are salty you can't 100-0 people (as if it is all supports lol) and throw a hissy fit.
God forbid supports be able to actually support and not just be ward bots.
Zone of Endless2 votesI mean, yeah. If you weren't able to do your job as a class, while assassins shit on everyone, people would stop playing support.
You are trying to be funny cause you people are salty you can't 100-0 people (as if it is all supports lol) and throw a hissy fit.
God forbid supports be able to actually support and not just be ward bots.
I'm mocking the fact that riot buffed the fuck out of support to make more people play them.
Kilanost1 votes[{quoted}](name=Zone of Endless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2nOTjlj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-02T02:29:54.981+0000)
but but but if they nerfed support no one would play them :^)))))))))))))))))))
Nerf support? Sure why not. At the end of the day the supports can still say "support nerfs suck but at least I'm not a jungler."
Athenes Lulu1 votesthen eventually it will become so unpopular that people will "forget" to know how to play against them
and it would be a good thing for dedicated support mains instead of autofilled people :^)
BeastOfCaerbanog17 votesAssassins aren't meant to have "always win" situation vs adc + support. If you go into such 1v2, then you gotta aceept the risk and it's a game of skill who kills whom.
Also shields being OP? Shields stop you from making a kill, but they don't kill you. And if adc is killing your ass while shields save his, that's you being a poor assassin. Because as one you are equipped with solid escape tools, it's what defines the role. Failure to use them correctly is on you.
If anything it's the cc that screwes assassins over. But usually that means no shield. If a support has both shields and cc, you can be sure at least one of them (if not both) will suck. For example taric's cc that needs 1.5s wait or karma's root that takes even longer channel.
Lulu's the one with reasonable shielding and cc, but she's squishy. Maybe instead of going for the obvious adc, try doing a fast hard dive on squishy support, then immediately retreat and return to matter of lone adc once your skills are back off cooldowns?
Heckin Support5 votesAssassins aren't meant to have "always win" situation vs adc + support. If you go into such 1v2, then you gotta aceept the risk and it's a game of skill who kills whom.
Yah, I was under the impression that it's the supports job to invalidate someone jumping onto the ADC. If an assassin jumps on an ADC while the support is there (2v1) the fight should lean towards and favor the ADC/Support.
Legad12 votes"Oh i was used to kill everyone... bursting them down in all-in and stay alive... now i can't 1V2 1V3 1V4 1V5 (kat if ur listening to me...) that's support fault... NERF THEM..."
Yep nerf ur counter... never that ur own character is a bit too powerfull initially...
edit : "and u should also just erase exhaust as a damage reducer ! cause that's coutering assassin too..." edit 2 : "you should also suppress wards... wards are annoying for assassins..."
Late For Tea7 votesbecause supports are really broken and can invalidate them
Can we just stop this and nerf supports already?
People should stop saying this. Supports are a very diverse role of champions, and only a handful can reliably stop assassins. Unless you're one of those people who complain that cc stops assassins, in that case most champions have some form of cc and will therefore invalidate assassins. If you have a problem with certain supports, name them. Don't act like all supports are the same.
shekinai5 votesOr try to play support... They are really hard to main for real... and be efficient with a team fail is a challenge.
IainG105 votesAlso, as a support, you have to rely on your team to do anything except remain alive. Your push is non-existent, your tower damage is pitiful (unless you are a tank with Demolish, but even then....), you cannot solo drake/Baron, and unless you are REALLY ahead, you cannot 1v1 anything except maybe the enemy support....
xelaker5 votesassassins started it....
The Yetii Rider5 votesIf supports can't stop assassins from killing adcs, what are they supposed to do? What is the role of a support other than keeping the marksman alive during burst combos?
Bisaknosp4 votesdumb if riot nerfs supports they also need to nerf assassins you are already playing grey screen simulator if you are ad without janna/lulu
Nøctμrne4 votesThis is why I'll sometimes focus a support first in every fight, as a Nocturne main I have to decide who I want to one shot, I'd rather bully the support and kill them. They are far easier to kill than an ADC with a support, as the ADC can't support the support. But it just depends on what the matchup is.
In general I find lulu and Janna to be on the extreme end of abusing most assassins because of how powerful they become with ardent.
3 Tears3 votesRiot is buffing and buffing assassins to obscene levels just because supports are really broken and can invalidate them, and this is terrible for the game.
Because supports and assassins arent the 2 only classes in the game.
Can we just stop this and nerf supports already? It would both reduce powercreep and make assassins competitive in 1 go, now you're adding even more broken shit like stormrazor for ad assassins...
The Burst War, it will last until the fall of Anivia's wall
Häxel1 voteswell while the revert of last whisper is an assassin buff, adding stormrazor isn't realy it. You get attackspeed and a guaranteed crit: Which assassin does want these stats? Yes, probably no one cause you kill with your spells and maybe one auto so the attackspeed is realy worthless. If i want an empowered autoattack on rengar i would go trinity force.
GayFluffyUnicorn4 votesU do realize ghostblade used to give attackspeed? Albeit the active but it was core on every AD assassin and allowed them to splitpush in lategame where their teamfight is bad. This item will 100% get picked up by assassins. Guaranteed crit in your burst combo+AS for additional AAs+splitpush is there.
