Isn't she like supposed to be a hyper carry?
Source: http://champion.gg/champion/Jinx
No reason that a hyper carry should have a higher win rate during their supposed "weak point"
searchman1533 votesI honestly think jinx is a mid game hyper carry. Meaning, she won't win games in under 20 minutes, and games over 40 can be difficult. The lack of mobility is part of the reason she can fall off late game and her ability to push towers is pretty much all there after 2 items.
KONO RUBICK DA3 votesI honestly think jinx is a mid game hyper carry. Meaning, she won't win games in under 20 minutes, and games over 40 can be difficult. The lack of mobility is part of the reason she can fall off late game and her ability to push towers is pretty much all there after 2 items.
yea falling off, that's why she has 51% win rate at 40 min
Sire Hippington29 votesher winrate at 40 min is lower than her average winrate and the lowest of her powercurve, so yes, she does fall off. Her overall powerlevel is just so high that she still stays above 50%, but compared to what jinx does early in the game, she's not as potent lategame, mostly because she has no escape and isn't particulary bursty/tanky or tank-shreding. She relys more on good peeling and teamcoordination later on.
KONO RUBICK DA3 votes[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E1jiRlwR,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-10-27T15:39:30.861+0000)
her winrate at 40 min is lower than her average winrate and the lowest of her powercurve, so yes, she does fall off. Her overall powerlevel is just so high that she still stays above 50%, but compared to what jinx does early in the game, she's not as potent lategame, mostly because she has no escape and isn't particulary bursty/tanky or tank-shreding. She relys more on good peeling and teamcoordination later on.
she does fall off, but not hardly enough to balance her, 51% win rate means that she still wins more than 1/2 of her game in late game.
as an adc who can be a lane bully, has power spike in mid game, having this late game simply makes her unbalanced
Sire Hippington10 votesi never said anything about her beeing balanced, just that her powercurve is far from an lategame hypercarry, and the question is what she should be. Apparently, most people think she's suppose to be an hypercarry cause of her As steroid and aoe-crits, but currently, she's less of an hypercarry than graves(based on powercurve, not raw power level)
as an adc who can be a lane bully, has power spike in mid game, having this late game simply makes her unbalanced
You sound like you want her lategame to be nerfed haveing her as lanebully+midgame adc, most peaople want her laneing to be nerfed so she's a mid-lategame hypercarry, This makes it hard to pin down where exactly to nerf her to get her right, as it is apparently unclear what powercurve she should have.
metaworldpeace105 votesI honestly think jinx is a mid game hyper carry. Meaning, she won't win games in under 20 minutes, and games over 40 can be difficult. The lack of mobility is part of the reason she can fall off late game and her ability to push towers is pretty much all there after 2 items
That's exactly my point. Why should a champion, specifically an ADC, who is designed to a late game team fight carry, allowed to have a stronger power spike than Lucian for example? Also, she does NOT by ANY means fall off late game. Having AOE crit rockets + aoe execute ult are some of the best team fighting and killing tools an ADC needs. Jinx has arguably the best teamfight out of any ADC.
Drugoth2 votesIt seems a constant sore spot about her is her aoe crits from her rockets. As it stands right now, if she crits her target then the entire splash field is considered a critical. Why not just tune it back by forcing each entity hit by the critical to have its own critical roll instead of the entire thing being a critical. This could also be used to tune down GPs barrels.
FastAsHeck3 votesinconsistency and 
issues. Imagine throwing rockets that don't crit the actual target but crit the nearby enemy, then the next one crits your target but not enemies nearby. it would be too messy. plus, if you shoot 2 rockets and one of them crits and the other does not, or if the first one crits one guy and the second one crits the other guy, there is hardly a difference.
Drive By Max14 votesBecause games in which she wins sooner means that she was much more fed. And then most teams that get to 40+ minutes tend to coordinate better.
metaworldpeace1011 votesBecause games in which she wins sooner means that she was much more fed. And then most teams that get to 40+ minutes tend to coordinate better.
Any champion can get "fed" early in the game, but very few can hard carry like Jinx can. There is no reason that a hyper carry should have a strong, reliable early game like Jinx.
Cynical Rain10 votes...perhaps the real question concerns the validity of the site's results...
freeformline4 votesThat's hilarious. I would assume it would be a result of their MMR rising to a point that other people can play against them effectively, so they have to learn new tactics to be successful at the higher skill level.
Gorgannan6 votesI'd imagine it's that they climb higher as a one trick pony. Most "mains" you play better than you actually are, so when you go up against someone of equal skill with the game as you have with your champ, it becomes harder to carry. Anyone who knows how to play vs. you reduces your "main" advantage, and then it becomes obvious that you climbed on your mastery of one champ.
kile1471 votesA lot of champs have a weird drop like that in the higher tiers of champion skill. I can't find any good pattern or explanation for it since it doesn't exist on champs like Jinx and Azir (pretty straightforward rise in win rates), but if you look at Veigar and Mundo they have very similar win rate vs games played graphs, just shifted slightly due to general power level differences. What do Veigar and Mundo have in common with each other but not with Jinx and Azir? No freaking clue.
AhhShucks1 votesA couple years between their development.
kile1478 voteshttp://champion.gg/champion/Galio/Top This is my favorite though.
LordForrest3 votesWtf, how is that even possible? Its like the more games you play as Galio the worse you get. Seriously?
kile1477 votesConfirmed: Maining Galio actually makes you worse at the game. If someone claims to be a Galio main dodge immediately.
LordForrest2 votesThis makes me sad, because i like Galio. I don't main him, but i do like to play him and i actually do good with him. Also to all the haters who only say hes good as a counterpick in mid or against a heavy ap team, i laugh at you.
kile14711 votesWell it might be fine if you play him only occasionally, his low skill winrate isn't too shabby. Just try not to learn anything about the champ or how he works while playing him.
LordForrest3 votesLOL, i am screwed then
Divinate1 votesBut maybe thats the problem though - maybe the people with a few games played are only picking him against a leblanc/ other ap caster, while the ones who play 125 games are picking him no matter what, even when he doesnt have the upper hand, and when he doesnt have the upper hand, hes straight up out classed...
Baron of Bread2 votesHe is probably just an extremely niche pick for top lane. If you use him more than 3 times a week then you are probably using him when it isn't a great idea.
RocketRelm4 votesA lot of champs have a weird drop like that in the higher tiers of champion skill. I can't find any good pattern or explanation for it since it doesn't exist on champs like Jinx and Azir (pretty straightforward rise in win rates), but if you look at Veigar and Mundo they have very similar win rate vs games played graphs, just shifted slightly due to general power level differences. What do Veigar and Mundo have in common with each other but not with Jinx and Azir? No freaking clue.
… the color purple as a primary theme?
Sire Hippington2 votesdidn't look at every single one, but usually the champs that have such wiered winrate/gamelayed graphs are unpopular and thus their is insufficient data for a statisticall analysis.
Gallio top for example has a wierd graph, though only ~2000games with gallio top went into data for that site, ~75% of those games were by newbs, so only 500games of experienced Gallios went in for data, thats far from a relevant samplesize.
Aditionally, diehard mains, especially of unpopular champs, usually pick those champs no matter what, so often into bad matchups or teamcomps that don't fit(wich could apply to mundo and Veigar, both are not that unpopular, and both have quite some counters/setups that give them a really hard time)
1374345 votesYou are assuming that the Jinx in the 40 minute game is doing just as well as the Jinx in the 25 min game. The shorter game means that the Jinx was more likely fed, or that your team was doing better overall (and thus more likely to win). A 40 minute game suggest the Jinx was not particularity fed compared to the enemy, or if they were they were struggling to carry their team.
Just because Jinx is a hyper carry doesn't mean she is unstoppable late game. Bad positioning/good enemy focus can easily get her killed and with long games that can mean a minute + death timer. Being fed helps you end sooner, but as the game drags on the gap between the fed person and everyone else narrows (with the exception of the handful of champions with infinitely scaling mechanics) as you reach a power ceiling with your personal gold (since you can only have 6 items max + consumable + trinket).
Sire Hippington6 votesthe problem is that aparently, jinx gets fed early in 55% of the short games, while she feeds her opponent 45% off the time. Which for a hypercarry shouldn't be the case. She has a higher earlygame winrate than graves, cait or draven, who are laebullys... Hypercarrys should more often than not not be fed early on, they should rely on their strong lategame scaleing to come back from behind, or pull ahead from even. However, 51% lategame is a rather low winrate for an hypercarry, so she might have an identity crisis....
T RexHasTinyArms2 votesExcept that's not what a 55% win rate at 25 min means. It means that OF GAMES THAT END AT 25 min and have a jinx in them she wins 55%. A lot of comps w/ hyper carries will out scale the enemy and be less likely to surrender at 25, so to surrender as a Jinx team at 25, they probably have to be way further behind than the team that has the enemy team surrender at 25 bc they have already been out scaled by the hyper carry and can't catch up. Numbers don't exist w/out context, and this is one of those things that it is easy to make it say something it doesn't if you don't understand the context/variables that factor into it.
LaowPing1 votes^This. If it's 25 minutes, you're losing, and you see a Lee Sin on the other team, you think, "Oh, he's gonna fall off. it's fine." If you see a Nasus, you think "Fuck, this is only going to get worse." Jinx is entire dependant on her team. If he team does well well, you have other champions to worry about, letting her scale more as the game goes on cause she gets to do her own thing. People are more likely to surrender when they lose to a late game comp, regardless of whether or not Jinx was the one causing them to do well.
metaworldpeace103 votesYou are assuming that the Jinx in the 40 minute game is doing just as well as the Jinx in the 25 min game. The shorter game means that the Jinx was more likely fed, or that your team was doing better overall (and thus more likely to win). A 40 minute game suggest the Jinx was not particularity fed compared to the enemy, or if they were they were struggling to carry their team.
Just because Jinx is a hyper carry doesn't mean she is unstoppable late game. Bad positioning/good enemy focus can easily get her killed and with long games that can mean a minute + death timer. Being fed helps you end sooner, but as the game drags on the gap between the fed person and everyone else narrows (with the exception of the handful of champions with infinitely scaling mechanics) as you reach a power ceiling with your personal gold (since you can only have 6 items max + consumable + trinket).
I understand your point, but I'll respectively disagree. Take Jax for example. He's a late game hyper carry, who also has the tools necessary to solo carry a game (albeit he's melee), but you don't see his winrate topping out at 55% pre 25 minutes. Why you ask? Because, even if he gets fed during the early game, he still needs 2-3 items to even start to spike hard, whereas Jinx can start spiking as soon as IE is completed. Jax has to wait until levels 11-13 to really show his mid-late game power. Jinx has to hit between a levels 6-8 to spike hard, resulting in a more drastic power curve and allowing her to finish games quicker.
There is no question that you can kill Jinx late game, I never said she was "unstoppable" I'm merely pointing out that her role as a "late game hyper carry" is falsified by the fact that she can spike as early as level 6 and attain her "late game power" 3-4 levels earlier than other hyper carries. She's a problem and needs changes. I'm not sure how the marksman update will affect her, but if she's too strong after the update, she needs some moderate nerfs to keep her power in check
NemeBro5 votesBecause teams in Yolo Q don't know how to peel and don't want to peel. They are busy trying to carry (because they are obviously the only ones who can), so fuck Jinx.
iainB854 votesWell, with her passive she snowballs extremely hard. That could be why -- if Jinx gets ahead early game, she can snowball it to an early victory much harder than a lot of other ADC.
Late game, if she hasn't snowballed, she is much easier to catch out of position and lose the game as she doesn't have the best escape.
brad3 voteschampion.gg is not a reliable source of information
Mathbalnase4 votesWould you mind explaining why? (edit: and what alternatives, if any, you might suggest to be superior?)
FastAsHeck2 votesno third party site is ever 100% reliable
Mathbalnase3 votesHave you seen Riot's champion pages? Not even Riot's information is '100% reliable'. All we should be looking for is 'reliable enough'.
The Yetii Rider2 votesJinx wins games because of her insane objective control. Her kit definitely lends itself to being strong if she has a full build, but her ability to rush turrets down is much more dangerous in the early game when the enemy team is less coordinated to defend lanes.
If Jinx gets even a slight lead or a good gank, she can turn that into two towers and a dragon with ease, which can lead to early concedes.
metaworldpeace101 votesJinx wins games because of her insane objective control. Her kit definitely lends itself to being strong if she has a full build, but her ability to rush turrets down is much more dangerous in the early game when the enemy team is less coordinated to defend lanes.
If Jinx gets even a slight lead or a good gank, she can turn that into two towers and a dragon with ease, which can lead to early concedes.
Exactly. Her ability to turn an early game skirmish into a tower or 2 plus dragon gives immense power to her and her team. I'm fine with her being able to take objectives quick and effectively, but what's her trade off? She doesn't sacrifice any damage that's for sure. Maybe her lack of having a dash in her kit? I don't know, but it's obvious and apparent that she does not adequately pay in weakness for her strength.
Gubaguy2 votesits called falling off, most champions have a point where they stop being as useful.
Cept for rengar, who only gets more and mroe and more BS as the game progreesses.
Gorgannan2 votesShe is a hypercarry, but she's also insanely high risk late game. Even Kog can build Triforce and get tankier. It's the same as Vayne. She wins a lot early, because if she gets ahead, people will give up.
It's not her damage that falls off, it's her survivability vs. Garen Zed and Malphite.
But your point stands. She's insanely strong mid game. They should make her W cast faster and reduce the AS of her Q or make the AoE crits deal reduced damage, like Yasuo.
Yeseum2 votesbecause at 40 mins tristana takes over
T RexHasTinyArms2 votesProbably bc games people are losing w/ a hyper carry they are willing to stall and try to get a good fight late game w/ the hyper carry. I know there are games we were behind at 20-25 min and sometimes by a decent amount, but my team and I didn't want to surrender bc we knew that we could out scale the enemy and maybe win. If a jinx gets really fed in lane and is 5-10 min ahead of where she should be in terms of build then at 25 min most teams will realize that within 5 min there will be a late game hyper carry (40 min build at 30 if they're really fed) and just surrender bc the team can't out scale and a hyper carry opponent is doing well so it's probably a loss. Thus, she has a low surrender rate when behind at 20-30 min, and a high surrender rate from opponents when significantly ahead at 20-30 min.
If you look at reasons for it rather than just numbers it actually makes sense and should be this way (although the gap may be too big if for instance she is having too easy a time getting fed early so enemy surrender rate is too high). Ice cream sales and drowning deaths increase together as well, it doesn't mean they are the reason the other is happening, they both go up because in summer people buy ice cream and also go swimming/to the lake or beach more (Jinx isn't winning more games at 25 min bc she is stronger then, but because she is stronger late so people don't surrender when behind and do when she is ahead).
LionelLeon1 votes"Hyper carries shouldn't have a strong early"
all have a strong early and a strong late.
I Miss Cannon6 votesHOW IS LUCIAN A HYPERCARRY
LordForrest4 votesHow is anybody he listed a hypercarry except vayne?
