Lee sin is practically a NULL pick in anything but high elo.

the champion is simply time gated more than anything. lee sin is dysfunctional vs tanks. lee sin is dysfunctional vs supports and hes pretty dysfunctional against anything besides non meta junglers he can abuse with early cheese invades. he really doesn't have much going for him

I think today. and in the past few months and even last couple of seasons. lee sin is quite simply a cheese pick that can snowball vs squishie comps and insta gib people out of stealth . or he simply cannot kill any tank in the jungle. like any of them.

hes quite the regressive pick toward a team. I really do not want to see lee sin on my team. at all. its not about how good a player at that champion. plenty of lee sin mains with decent winrates in high platinum. the champion is simply dysfunctional if the enemy jungler decides to opt into a tank and any sort of mobile champions as carries.

he works too well at abusing bad early game junglers. he cannot team fight to save his life. there is no build lee sin can opt into to so hes worth half a champion in 2+ item point of the game.

rework lee sin to be a fairer early game jungler and make him actually useful past it. people hate lee sin because people are sick and tired of playing 4v5 becuase the champion will literally look like hes inting in team fights even though hes not because he has to do a challenger level of insec to be functional in later stages of the game. he cannot really split push like shaco at least can. another champion that is weaker at team fights but is specifically an assassin that is good at dueling squishies even at later stages and can be quite the annoyance. lee sin cannot scare a janna past mid game with a meta build. hes a shitty ancient kit that is simply frontloaded damage that if it isn't enough hes not good for anything at all.

I really do not play the champion much besides normal games every few months. but am simply sick and tired of being pigeon holed into a 4.5 v 5 in champion select because the enemy team just picked shit that cannot be abused by lee sin early game (tanks).

pro play shouldn't be a consideration because lee sin is there played first. by much higher mechanical players. but also. the game is vision oriented. and lee sin is good at escaping collapses so hes good at getting vision at professional play

thats my many cents on leesin

tldr: lee sin is a novelty that is nice to look at and play but simply doesn't work if the enemy team decides they want it not to.

I didn't come here to just create this thread. I have been pondering at this for a year or two. lee sin is picked alot. so I get to see what he does. I play him sometimes. lee sin doesn't add anything to a team comp. he isn't a good pick champion because there are plenty of much safer option. tanks like rammus and sejuani.

he isn't really the dps damage dealer for obvious reasons

and he gets absolutely destroyed by most assassins in the jungle

again lee sin is a novelty that is based around getting upperhand by Qing people from out of vision and killing them over and over.

you're not bringing the carry potential of a dps. you're not bringing the cc of a tank. the peel of a support. the safety of a mage or the tankiness of a bruiser. or the snowball burst damage of a point and click assassin. hes lee sin. thats really it.

no this isn't pantheon. pantheon is a really guarnteed pick to work in lane against 9/10 matchups that can transition his lead to other lanes. lee sin simply is based on the enemy having no vision at where he decides to go.

am not asking for number changes. rework this mess.

potential =/= real world effectiveness