I was playing some sona today and holy shit

Rexxiee··10 votes·1,397 views

Shes just so awful at trying to do anything aggressive, you have to play as passive as possible since your Q is barely even worth the cast (the mana to damage ratio is awful) and then wait for you to get lvl 11 or 16 and then mash W with your support items for you to be useful.

Meanwhile lulu and nami are like basically straight up better sonas other than like the magical full build lvl 16 secnario that happens once every 30 games in this season.

Like i dont get it why they had to nerf her Q so much, making her Q worth to use means sona plays more aggressively and can interact better with her lane opponent (since she goes into auto range and can be chunked back).

Just revert the nerfs on her Q and maybe her base health aswell, i just dont get the point of overnerfing the champ so hard to the point where the best play is literally avoiding your lane opponents, thats boring for BOTH sides.

46 Comments

bwop7 votes

Sona's Q before the nerf was pretty annoying to play the first ten minutes against since it's unavoidable damage. OP I hope you realize her Q is just a press of a button compared to a lot of other abilities in the game. I think I like her nerfed better than being buffed a little and seeing her in LCS games

Nut on my Butt2 votes

{quoted}

Sona's Q before the nerf was pretty annoying to play the first ten minutes against since it's unavoidable damage. OP I hope you realize her Q is just a press of a button compared to a lot of other abilities in the game. I think I like her nerfed better than being buffed a little and seeing her in LCS games

I don't think you're accounting for the fact that on top of her Q getting nerfed, they later nerfed the base ap from her rune tree and every rune that she uses in it as well.

bwop2 votes

That is a good thing, that way, she has at least some form of counterplay other than being squishy.

Bronze 6 Yasuo2 votes

Sorry but sona isn't gonna get buffed again. You might drop in elo to where you belong now.

Nut on my Butt3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze 6 Yasuo,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BzpLF7lQ,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-12-31T22:30:05.820+0000)

Sorry but sona isn't gonna get buffed again. You might drop in elo to where you belong now.

Nice ad hominem, but I only support when autofilled.

Also never said anything about a buff, she needs rework

Bronze 6 Yasuo1 votes

Rework? She's completely fine!

Daedric Etwahl3 votes

Which is a fair point, but the unavoidable damage on the Q active was the ONLy part of it that wasn't nerfed. It would honestly make more sense if the Q active damage got nerfed but the empowered auto remained strong, but right now it's backwards, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Miku Hime sama3 votes

Her Q active has the lowest base damage of the entire support class... and you're advocating that it be nerfed. You're implying the active is "strong" while the lingering active is weak, but the truth of the matter is that BOTH are weak. Both have been weak going all the way back to her first rework.

Rito is just gutting Sona to satisfy their own biased hatred for the character.

Daedric Etwahl1 votes

Nope. Not advocating for a nerf at all.

Yes, both of them are weak, yet the boards still bitch. Riot balance team even thought she was "oppressive", so they do the logical thing: First nerf everything except her damage, then nerf her damage, but only the part that encourages interacting with lane opponents.

If they were going to nerf the Q ANYWAY, they should have had its real power be in the empowered auto. Instead, they just fire away with ridiculous nerfs without any forethought

Miku Hime sama1 votes

I mean, that's always been Rito's attitude, both towards champion balance in general and also towards Sona specifically.

Rito has this distinct problem where they refuse to nerf the problem points of a champion. They believe repeatedly cutting around the problem, over-gutting every other aspect of a character will somehow miraculously make "weak points" for enemies to exploit. It has never worked, in the end they always finally have to resort to nerfing that problem point, but then they blatantly refuse to revert any of the nth previous nerfs, leaving the character OVER-nerfed. It happened to Lucian, it happened to Yasuo, it happened to Sejuani, it's happening to Sona.

Speaking of, Sona's problem point isn't her damage. She already has the lowest damage of any support, the problem point is her R passive. It's the reason her first rework failed, it's the reason her 2nd rework failed harder, when they gutted her numbers even further to funnel even more of her power budget into level 16. It will never matter what her kit looks like, until Rito stop tunneling 99% of her strength into R ranks.

Furthermore, Rito is extremely wary to nerf Sona's damage any more than it already has. They know Sona has the lowest damage of the support class. They know her Q has the lowest base. They know nerfing it even more, won't reduce Sheen's strength, but they did realize GUTTING her base AD matter-of-factly did gut her affinity with Spellblade. They knew her winrate would nose-dive after that nerf, they knew her winrate would nose-dive after gutting Aery, yet they already queued more Sona nerfs before that even reached Live. They knew they would eventually gut every Sorcery mastery, not because of Sona, but Meddler was allowed to use them as an excuse to gut Sona first anyways.

Now here we are, Sona is at her lowest point in the history of the game, which honestly doesn't even mean much, since she has only ever gone downhill since the beginning of League regardless. She's never received a buff, she's received nerfs every season since 3 and she hasn't existed in professional play since her first rework was just a list of some 30+ simultaneous nerfs and like 1 sole "compensation buff," which still nets a grand total of neg 30+ overall changes in that one patch alone.

Also, since Sona's entire power budget is funneled into level-16 URF-mode, every single nerf she receives that doesn't include the text: "R-passive removed" is essentially two nerfs in 1. She gets a nerf to her early game, her laning phase where she's SUPPOSED to be strong and also a nerf to that non-existent late-game fantasy, where her machine-gun of shooting pathetic air-soft rounds gets multiplicatively weaker by shredding power off every single of her 5-billion casts. A direct result of her failed 2nd rework.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Ok, but that's not an argument. Lots of abilities are unavoidable.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

I think I like her nerfed better than being buffed a little and seeing her in LCS games

Are you joking?

Daedric Etwahl1 votes

To be honest I don't want to see her in LCS games, but that's just for personal reasons.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BzpLF7lQ,comment-id=000100030000,timestamp=2018-01-01T09:51:48.969+0000)

To be honest I don't want to see her in LCS games, but that's just for personal reasons.

You will NEVER see a champ like this one do well in the LCS if it helps you sleep better. Me? Moving on. Tired of this. You can have her.

Daedric Etwahl1 votes

Um, no, I think you misunderstand! Her not being LCS-caliber has no effect on my thoughts of her, and honestly, even if her reworked state is good for us, but still doesn't show up in LCS, that's a-ok for me. No need to be so hostile about a differing opinion.

Miku Hime sama4 votes

{quoted}

since it's unavoidable damage.

Yep, that big scary "unavoidable" 40 points of damage(which factually can miss if she misjudges her range.) Meanwhile:

Where is this misnomer that Sona's THEORETICALLY (although not realistically) "unavoidable" 40 damage is somehow a problem point, when literally all of her closest rivals have TRULY unavoidable damage, with all sporting better bases & scalings and half of them with better effective range than Sona. There's no reasoning to this excuse, it's just an empty fake argument.


You want to make Sona's Q a skillshot? Fine. You want to reason that it'll "improve her skill expression?" So be it. Just stop trying to use it as the fake excuse it is for her current and past states. The only culprit for Sona's unbalanceable state is the fact 99% of her power budget is funneled into leveling up her R to rank 3 for its unblanceable URF-passive.

bwop2 votes

I wasn't even talking about making her q a skill shot...

Miku Hime sama2 votes

There's literally no other way to translate your propaganda. Unless you're one of those extremists who thinks Sona should be League's very first character in the entire history of the game with zero damage abilities.

Isn't it bad enough that she already has the lowest damage potential of the entire support class? That's not even taking her severe mana-gating into consideration.

bwop1 votes

They made her Q cost more mana because she would spam it so much in lane though...

Miku Hime sama1 votes

Cause clearly "spamming" (8-second cooldown is NOT "spamming") a 40-damage, 600 effective-range spell is a problem. Let's just ignore the fact that a basic attack does more damage than Sona's singular damage-spell. Let's ignore the fact Sona already has the 2nd-lowest mana of any Enchanter. Let's ignore the fact her W is already the 2nd-most expensive heal, with the lowest base in the game. Let's ignore the fact Sona is arguably the squishiest character in League.

Rito didn't gut Sona's mana cost cause she was "spamming" her 8-second CD, 40-base, 600-effective range spell. They gutted Sona's mana cost, because Ezreal & Leona were/are problems and the way to fix them is #BetterNerfSona and literally no other reason. If Rito wanted Sona to be a balanceable character, they would delete the passive on her R button, hyper-buff her stats & spell-bases and give her pre-6 hard CC, but apparently that would be way too logical of a thing for Rito to do. Cause Sona isn't allowed to have the same fair treatment as literally every other support in the entire game.

Ahristocats1 votes

making her Q a skillshot would be a first step to make her easier to balance

but it would make the spell so damn uninteresting, just a karma Q 2.0

she just needs a rework and A GOOD rework

Rexxiee3 votes

[{quoted}](name=CrazFight ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BzpLF7lQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-31T22:11:44.054+0000)

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/memes/aKhEcav2-sona-mains-whenever-sonas-winrate-falls-below-60

First im not a support or sona main.

Second, her winrates are below 50% on every single bot lane support and most adc matchups.

Her easiest lane being janna, at 48% win rate, worst being leona at barely above 40%.

The champ is just stupidly weak atm, probably the weakest support in the game atm.

D4M2X03 votes

you WILL get completely destroyed if you pick sona into most matchups as shes been nerfed lower then the depths of hell. its even worse when you get camped. riot literally hate sona, they even disable her from URF constantly to prove it.

sona is only good vs other true supports like janna/lulu/soraka etc, you outdamage them while having sustain and engage power and being able to build full AP.

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

you WILL get completely destroyed if you pick sona into most matchups as shes been nerfed lower then the depths of hell. its even worse when you get camped. riot literally hate sona, they even disable her from URF constantly to prove it.

sona is only good vs other true supports like janna/lulu/soraka etc, you outdamage them while having sustain and engage power and being able to build full AP.

She still has sub 50% win rate against those too.

Janna is her most easy mode lane, and on average janna still has a 52% winrate on sona bot lane.

If she was actually playable then yes naturally she would be very good into her, but shes too overnerfed.

D4M2X01 votes

{quoted}

She still has sub 50% win rate against those too.

Janna is her most easy mode lane, and on average janna still has a 52% winrate on sona bot lane.

If she was actually playable then yes naturally she would be very good into her, but shes too overnerfed.

well i aint played sona in months, if maxing Q is shit you can never go wrong with maxing W. i would only use offensive runes on sona aswell, i dont know what sona's use this pre-season

i just know that sona is the best support vs passive lanes as shes a strong mix of passive/agressive

Daedric Etwahl1 votes

Maxing W gets pretty lousy as well since it is super weak without items but costs so much mana.

Im a more defensive Sona player, I like to remain safe, but Im not totally passive either. Right now my skill order is by level 6 have Rank 3 Q and Rank 1 WE, and then max W, Q, then E.

AirKingNeo2 votes

[deleted]

Ahristocats2 votes

my friend, it's 2018 right now on euw ,

how is that relevant? as relevant as your answer to my post

AirKingNeo1 votes

Good point.

hoyohai1 votes

Hmmm... Still higher than Ryze at least

Miku Hime sama2 votes

Lol, I'd like to point at that the 0.2% ban rate are players banning out their own teammate for hovering her. No sane player would legitimately ban Sona, unless it were to prevent their ally from troll-picking her.

Battlereb453 votes

I’m a sona main and I don’t experience any of that. I play aggressive. I use mana flow band and that helps. But don’t play stupid and you can carry as Sona still. I have games where the enemy is scared of me.

Ahristocats2 votes

there ain't record of any ranked games you did and that since a long time

can't take u seriously

Battlereb451 votes

I have 46% winrate with her this preseason and I don’t know it for normal draft pick. (I don’t play ranked often but I have this preseason a little bit)

Miku Hime sama2 votes

I mean, people have been saying she's awful, but randoms refuse to believe it, attempt to play her themselves only to realize she's awful. I don't feel bad at all saying,"We told you so."

RedCyclone1 votes

Hoping to see some comment from Riot that they went too far with nerfing Sona and that some revert is on the way

Just a revert on the mana cost nerf on Q will do, it's supposed to be her early tool to keep her in the game where she is the weakest but it really hampers how well you can do earlygame when you are gated by Dota mana costs The idea against Sona was that if you traded her and forced her to use W to heal herself/her carry that would be the key to making Sona run OOM faster and not so useful, now all you have to do to be oom in 2 minutes is just play Sona

It's pretty sad when the guy with the most Sona games no longer picks Sona because she is that trash

hoyohai1 votes

I have a question. What's so bad about building tear on Sona? After all, you can upgrade it into Seraph's and shield yourself helping your teammates survive longer, as well as increase your heal and poke. What am I missing?

Rexxiee2 votes

{quoted}

I have a question. What's so bad about building tear on Sona? After all, you can upgrade it into Seraph's and shield yourself helping your teammates survive longer, as well as increase your heal and poke. What am I missing?

Nothing?

Every high elo sona player builds it and did before the last crippling nerfs, its a good item on her.

Now they probably still do but i just think nobody plays sona in high elo anymore because shes just bad atm (specially in high elo), bad meta for her (leona and tank/engage support spam) and overnerfed.

Oxyrotten1 votes

{quoted}

Shes just so awful at trying to do anything aggressive, you have to play as passive as possible since your Q is barely even worth the cast (the mana to damage ratio is awful) and then wait for you to get lvl 11 or 16 and then mash W with your support items for you to be useful.

Meanwhile lulu and nami are like basically straight up better sonas other than like the magical full build lvl 16 secnario that happens once every 30 games in this season.

Like i dont get it why they had to nerf her Q so much, making her Q worth to use means sona plays more aggressively and can interact better with her lane opponent (since she goes into auto range and can be chunked back).

Just revert the nerfs on her Q and maybe her base health aswell, i just dont get the point of overnerfing the champ so hard to the point where the best play is literally avoiding your lane opponents, thats boring for BOTH sides.

Because she is intended to provide sustain not poke.

TheEvilQueen1351 votes

personally i think she would feel fine if they lowered the mana cost on her w at least. her q and w costs are a lot rn, one needs to be lowered

Revali1 votes

I think sona players tend to forget you can both be an apcarry and an enchanter with ridiculous utility getting the best of both worlds

unlike most of the said class their damage falls off (unless you're bard)

being both tends to be an issue for sona as she's moving farther from her mage state and more into the other role it's probably people having a hard time adjusting to that.

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