This is a pretty good indicator that your design was a failure

SwiftKitten88·Dec 3, 2018·37 votes·12,273 views

i mean it doesn't really take a genius to know w/e happened was a failure when u look at that..

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/akali/all

70 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerDec 3, 201819 votes

It shows that people whine and complain about things that aren’t a threat because buzzwords like “overloaded” and “true stealth” get thrown around when they’re just made up.

AlzonDec 3, 201837 votes

No, it’s really just because people don’t like playing against it. Negative experiences. Buzzwords are thrown around after the fact to “commiserate” with other players who either don’t want to or haven’t learned how to find a weak point in the champion’s design and exploit it. Even in some of these cases, it leads to a negative experience, like waiting for dual stacked passives to wear off outside of engage range (and thus EXP range) for the entire duration of a slow push.

ModWulf HelhammerDec 3, 20189 votes

There’s some negative experience, sure.

But I guarantee you that the vast majority of those bans come from a player who heard from a friend somewhere that Akali has “true stealth” and some other bs like “she takes no damage from towers” (or things like “you have to stay out of exp range against Irelia”) so now they fear ban her even though there is absolutely now reason to, because unless you are in high elo, Akali straight up sucks.

SwiftKitten88Dec 3, 201820 votes

{quoted}

There’s some negative experience, sure.

But I guarantee you that the vast majority of those bans come from a player who heard from a friend somewhere that Akali has “true stealth” and some other bs like “she takes no damage from towers” (or things like “you have to stay out of exp range against Irelia”) so now they fear ban her even though there is absolutely now reason to, because unless you are in high elo, Akali straight up sucks.

LOL no, as a person who dealt with this myself when nid was banned out even when she had a 38% after 6.23 winrate because people didn't realize she got gutted.. it only took like 2-3 patches for them to get the message that she wasn't worth the ban.

It's been nearly 6 months since then..

also I'm not even the one banning her... i would much rather deal with Akali than champions like. Irelia Pyke Udyr Jax Yasuo Shaco Leblanc

but this is the kind of thing you would expect to see the same patch cycle or maybe 2-3 patches after it... not SIX MONTHS LATER.

ModWulf HelhammerDec 3, 20186 votes

When people keep repeating again and again “Akali is broken”, “toxic design”, “true stealth” and other such lies, nothing’s going to make it to those fearful players.

There’s a decent number of people here on the boards that want her straight up gutted, and they won’t stop complaining about her till she is. Which means that the perception to those who don’t investigate statistics or learn for themselves is that she is still “broken”, and they still fear ban her.

With Nidalee, people said she was gutted, which made public perception go that way and they stopped banning her.

Icy Hot ShotoDec 3, 201817 votes

Except, she technically does have true stealth. Unless you're someone with skill shots, you're not hitting her unless you manage to hit her within the window of chance she gives you. And that's if you even get that chance to hit her. Heck, she can even prevent tower aggro just by pressing w and doing one spell then just standing there because she just went invisible before the tower even shot.

She IS broken. No champion should be allowed to sit under the enemy tower to prevent their enemy from walking forward for minions, just because they managed to get ahead by one kill. Every other champion has to sit outside turret range, Akali just has to use her shroud and now you can't even walk forward to hit minions under tower.

SwiftKitten88Dec 4, 201825 votes

{quoted}

When people keep repeating again and again “Akali is broken”, “toxic design”, “true stealth” and other such lies, nothing’s going to make it to those fearful players.

There’s a decent number of people here on the boards that want her straight up gutted, and they won’t stop complaining about her till she is. Which means that the perception to those who don’t investigate statistics or learn for themselves is that she is still “broken”, and they still fear ban her.

With Nidalee, people said she was gutted, which made public perception go that way and they stopped banning her.

see this is why im not trying to be a mod on this forum,, because clearly they want their mods to suck up to them.

i loved league.. i played it for 6 years.. and i know what dramatic improvements riot has made.. but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that "everything is fine" when its NOT. its doesn't matter how many improvements Riot makes if the actual GAME we play is shit

if any other champion had this win rate people would be SCREAMING for buffs.. but NO ONE wants to deal with her.

its like Shaco TahmKench Yasuo Zed

it doesn't MATTER if they have counterplay.. its doesn't MATTER if they are "Strong or "Weak"

what MATTERS is NO ONE WANTS TO BLOODY FACE IT.

https://youtu.be/mvUQ8LMVIQA?t=203

THAT is where riot is FAILING

THAT is why league is NOT FUN.

because even if 120 champions are perfectly fine... if u break 20 of them.. and u get 3 of those 20 in every single game... u have RUINED league

Arìes WíndDec 4, 20185 votes

[deleted]

SwiftKitten88Dec 4, 201812 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arìes Wínd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvsNVZ4U,comment-id=0001000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-12-04T02:29:53.093+0000)

News flash nobody care what you little snowflake want to face or not.

and i don't give a shit what u think either? if i cared about what people thought, do you honestly think i would be in a place this toxic?

i come here to point out thing that need to change because they need to be said, not because i give a rats ass about what people think. i play this game to have fun... if the game isn't fun.. i don't play it.

i post with evidence... and based on logic and reason. i don't need your "OPINION", nor do i want it. i only care about the opinions of people who can make logical arguments based on facts and proof. not people living tin their own world thinking everything is fine when the game is burning to ashes around them

i posted a video showing one of their supposed "pillars of design" which is that champions should be fair and fun to face.

and anyone who has played this game with half a functioning brain cell could tell this isn't the case right now

which is why riot has lost well over half their playerbase since season 4.

burst damage tacked onto everything like items like item 3147 item 3095 and "runes" has brought about a meta where people die in less than a second.

and maybe some of the REMAINING league players are ok with this. im not

if you pissed off 60% of the players and make them quit... you cant suddenly go "well that's a good change because 100% of players that play the game liked it"

when its only 100% because the change was so awful that everyone else quit. and therefore are no longer bothering to voice their opinion

i WANT the game to be fun again. that's the entire point of playing games... to have fun.. if your not doing that when your playing a game... you're wasting your time.

i have spent over 2000 hours playing this game over nearly 6 season, well over 1000 games on my main Nidalee .

i can form my own opinion based on data, and my experiences..

if u want to have an actual discussion why don't you bring some data.. back it up with arguments, and we can talk about what is and what is not an issue.

right now you're acting like a 12 year old. and like i don't value the opinions of people who cant use factual evidence.

notMineskiexoDec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

which is why riot has lost well over half thier playerbase since season 4.

if you pissed off 60% of the players and make them quit... you cant suddenly go "well that's a good change because 100% of players that play the game liked

Where the fuck did you get these numbers from. Because i’ve never seen someone give out actual numbers of the player base since s4

And 60% of the players getting angry? Damn never knew that the west had a player base of over 400 million people

I also like how none of your points consider how the other big 2 regions play the game and their philosophy on what "fun" is.

NepgearDesuDec 4, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Damn never knew that the west had a player base of over 400 million people

Riot Games stated themself that: in 2014, they had around 67 million players each month; in 2016, they had around 100 million players each month.

Website www.inc.com stated in December 2016 that Riot Games had made around $1.6 billion revenue in a year. Website www.pcgamesn.com states that the company's revenue for August 2018 had dropped by 21% as compared to August 2017.

Assuming that all of these are true (no reason not to be, I suppose); making the hypothesis that Riot Games' recent cash grabs and dirty tactics (Worlds pass for example) are an attempt at restoring their revenues; that the number of monthly players increased at a steady rate during 2017 (not likely, but hell! This is a high estimate!); that a 21% loss in revenue, over such a massive playerbase, is about equivalent to a 21% loss in number of players. We can imagine that Riot Games had around 115 million monthly players in 2017; and lost 21% of these, down to about 91 million monthly players. Website www.unrankedsmurfs.com indicates that, in 2017, roughly 25% of these were playing on servers based in America (10% on NA).

So your hypothesis of 400 million western players makes no sense whatsoever. Even 40 million doesn't compute in the least. Get back to your cavern!

As for this loss in revenue, either the company did lose a lot of players, or some their biggest spenders were replaced by people with less interest in cosmetic bits on a distant server. Less US players for more Chinese players? I don't know how much the latter are spending in online games on average, but the average salary being lower makes me think it it less profitable to sell skins there. Well, perhaps! I have little data.

Not that it makes any more sense to state that Riot Games lost half its customers since season 4. That just can't be anything other than BS however I look at it.

notMineskiexoDec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

So your hypothesis of 400 million western players makes no sense whatsoever. Even 40 million doesn't compute in the least. Get back to your cavern!

That’s not even a hyposthesis. I threw out a random number because he was throwing out random numbers

But if you want some numbers here’s some

Taking Numbers In from op.gg and Chinese sites

Ranked Server Population Korea 2,249,606 Europe West 2,010,943 North America 1,232,157 Vietnam 1,164,877 Europe Nordic & East 1,110,123 Brazil 952,249 Philippines 832,277 Turkey 574,592 Taiwan 449,640 Latin America North 435,771 Latin America South 405,618 Russia 147,030 Oceania 144,718 Singapore 79,194 Japan 73,476 Thailand 68,427 Indonesia 35,390

(These numbers were taken from Op.gg. This means that the bronze player population was not taken into account.)

When it comes to China taking the top 3 servers I can estimate they have a ranked population of 15 Million players. This does not take in the fact that I have no clue what the population of the super ranked server is. ( pls release more info on this)

With these numbers i can say with confidence that a Leat 60% of the community is made of Chinese players.

Also if you didn’t know skins are cheaper in china than in the west

NepgearDesuDec 5, 20181 votes

Last time the two most powerful countries on the planet tried answering the other's stupidity with their own, we missed the third world war by a hair's breadth. I'm not one to criticise such choices as what's good and what's bad, but these mad ramblings don't help enlighten the debate.

As for these numbers: yes, and? You can't do anything with those: you don't know how many Chinese play LoL, nor what proportion of them plays ranked as it can be different from one region to another (different cultures, in China social relationships seem more important than in e.g. the US, and a rank in a popular game can certainly be part of social recognition). You're just taking a wild guess. I can do the same and state that 90% of LoL players are Chinese, or 10%; I can't prove it and you can't disprove it with this little info.

Skins being cheaper likely comes from a lower average income among Chinese players than among e.g. US ones. Could explain part of RG's decrease in revenue if they lost NA players to gain Chinese ones, or something. Having no real data to support that, though, I can only say that this doesn't seem too unreasonable, as I stated in my earlier post.

SwiftKitten88Dec 4, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Not that it makes any more sense to state that Riot Games lost half its customers since season 4. That just can't be anything other than BS however I look at it.

it was more he start of season 6 that made riot start to lose players.

and losing half thier playerbase doesn mean thir playerbase went down by 50%. riot has been spending a lot of time and energy trying to turn this game into a much faster player 1 shot game. which certainly alienates a lot of existing players.. but there ARE player who enjoy this

obviously riot stopped posting data on it. So we cant know for sure (which by itself is a pretty big clue) but in simpler numbers... if u have 10 people and u lose five... but u gain 2

you still LOST half your players... u just gained 2 more. pretty much every single person who i knew in seasons 3-7 has quit league, about 90% of my friends/ relatives/ coworkers who used to play it no longer do.

now again we dont have data on this.. but i find it reasonable to assume based on the what seems to be a rapid growth in other countries who like faster place games. and an overall very small increase to players. that league is losing a LOT of players.

again all we can do is estimate, and i really like how u are using the data we have to back up your arguments. which is why i took the time to respond.. but i think its fairly safe to assume that based on all the new players who joined especially in asia, but with barely any increase and a great loss of revenue.. that out of the players who were playing in season 4-5.. well over half of them are gone..

im not saying we have half the amount of players we did in season 4-5.

but well over half the players who played in season 4-5.. have decided to leave. I feel that is a very safe assumption... if not an underestimate

NepgearDesuDec 4, 20181 votes

Riot Games' revenue increased non-stop from season 1 to season 8. Season 9 seemingly was the first time it dropped, even if by a fifth (which would make it a four-year low the website said).

As for a loss of customers, you have no proof. No data, hint, clue, nothing other than a few acquaintances who called it quits. "A few", because we're talking about tens of millions of people there, not hundreds. Our personal experiences weigh strictly nothing unless we take time to gather thousands of people from all obediences and each precisely records their own experience. Which won't happen in the foreseeable future. Also, the turnover rate among customers is irrelevant (if not beneficial to RG) if one quitter is replaced by another player spending the same. I'm not saying you're wrong; you just have no valid reason to be right. You need more data than just your acquaintances' leaving to make any reasonable guess.

SwiftKitten88Dec 5, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Riot Games' revenue increased non-stop from season 1 to season 8. Season 9 seemingly was the first time it dropped, even if by a fifth (which would make it a four-year low the website said).

As for a loss of customers, you have no proof. No data, hint, clue, nothing other than a few acquaintances who called it quits. "A few", because we're talking about tens of millions of people there, not hundreds. Our personal experiences weigh strictly nothing unless we take time to gather thousands of people from all obediences and each precisely records their own experience. Which won't happen in the foreseeable future. Also, the turnover rate among customers is irrelevant (if not beneficial to RG) if one quitter is replaced by another player spending the same. I'm not saying you're wrong; you just have no valid reason to be right. You need more data than just your acquaintances' leaving to make any reasonable guess.

i would like to pit you your statement that "turnover is good for riot game" no its not.. this isn't a store at a mall, people don't "leave" after they buy something.

this is a game.. a game people play for FUN.

and yeah there is going to be some turnover of course from people starting a family.. getting a job, taking class limiting thier free time for "fun"

but u don't want to ACTIVELY alienate player to try to grab DIFFERENT player.

your not trying to "get someone out of the store so someone else can buy something"

becuase every single one of those players who quit league will tell others.. "yeah i used to play that game, it was fun but it's trash now"

in early season people wer actively bringing their friends in.. riot didn't even have to advertise.

take a look at riot channel now.. try to look at how much if it is "advertisment" there is a LOT of advertisment tring to "bring new people" into the game. because NO ONE is "recommending" this game.

because they alienated their old player base

if u want to gain more player.. you IMPROVE the game.. you take what people like and u add more of it.

what u DON'T do is ignore what your existing playerbase wants and fuck them over so u can try to grab an entirely different playerbase. and thats is what riot is trying to do.. forcing faster paced game for the asain market and thier "new cafe" style play.

this is the same thing blizzard did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJy6bJ_RxXg

will people buy diablo immortal... proably yeah... but will its CURRENT players buy it?? NO

HibekiDec 4, 20189 votes

Obviously they do bcause otherwise akali wouldnt have a 60% banrate smh

DrCyanideDec 4, 201813 votes

You're forgetting - the negative experiences get refreshed.

Players have heard their friends cry about "That's so OP!" since they started playing the game. They know that those statement are more often than not due to not understanding the kit, and is why that friend started playing Tryndamere/Yi/Nasus/whoever only to complain about them sucking a few games later, but then knowing how to play against them and moving on to complaining about something else.

Yet that hasn't happened here.

Very few people permaban the same champion for life, because there's a cycle. Eventually some new frustration comes around, or they get irritated by some other champ and think "maybe Yasuo/Akali/Irelia/Blitzcrank/whoever isn't so bad as I remember" and they ban someone else. After a few times of this their former ban gets picked by the enemy team, and it's this game that will re-influence the player's opinion of Yasuo/Akali/Irelia/Blitzcrank/whoever. If the experience isn't as frustrating to play against, then the champion might stay off their ban list.

However if a champion is just as frustrating to play against as they remembered then it's back on the ban list.

What you're seeing in ban rates isn't buzzwords or ban what my friend says, it's frustration with a kit. That will stay around for a good long while.

EDIT: Good to see Riot recognizes this in the patch notes!

We're exploring deeper changes to Akali to address the frustration she causes for opponents independent of whether she's strong or weak.

(emphasis added)

Tr4shB4NSYST3MDec 4, 20186 votes

This 100%, I have beaten akalis before and lost to good akalis, but the kit with all its sustain and safety and the damn W actually being ridiculously stronger than her old W, is just absolute aids to play against if the player is competent with akali. I can completely understand why her banrate is and hopefully will remain high.

Haha hell Ive seen akali's get ridiculous scores on aram, oh but assassins are "bad at teamfighting."

It is hilarious to me that the rework has an easier to hate kit than old akali (b/c ppl sure hated her then too)

ZardoDec 4, 20185 votes

This is why fizz always winds up back on my permaban list

Moody PDec 3, 20188 votes

Akali has a high skill curve so why is a low win rate a problem?

NetorareDec 4, 20185 votes

The problem with akali and yas will always be their "defensive abilities". As i said, CertainlyT does a good job when it comes to offensive abilities but the defensive ones he makes are pure bullshit and shouldn't be in the game. Those are not defensive abilities they are pure bullshit. How about make the fucking pink ward detect that bullshit akali when she is in her shroud so she finally has counterplay.

GravesingerDec 4, 20184 votes

43% winrate indicates that the champion is getting counterplayed pretty hard.

AlzonDec 3, 20184 votes

hehexd

ΗuaweiDec 4, 20183 votes

Akali already feels kinda irrelevant unless you're highly skilled with her, execute your combos to near perfection and can get ahead early.

If you can't meet all this criteria you will fail spetacularly and stealth doesn't really help you against aoe burst mages.

Akali's winrate will soon be comparable and lower than Sejuani's

SEKAIDec 4, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ákali exe,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvsNVZ4U,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-04T02:46:43.443+0000)

Akali already feels kinda irrelevant unless you're highly skilled with her, execute your combos to near perfection and can get ahead early.

If you can't meet all this criteria you will fail spetacularly and stealth doesn't really help you against aoe burst mages.

Akali's winrate will soon be comparable and lower than Sejuani's

And that's because her W has eaten up SO MUCH BUDGET that the rest of her kits have to be nuked from orbit because of it. Because it's basically outright invincibility against any champ that doesn't have spammable AoE, fuck the ability doesn't even have a cost despite its supreme power; it is clearly way over-budgeted for a basic ability by design, not to mention in practice the outcome is also hilariously binary either completely broken or entirely useless depending on which champ she goes up to (and the latter category is only a handful at best in comparison to the former).

And yes, both the W itself and how it at the same time gimps the rest of the kit by itself both are a definitive example a bad design, as per the theme of OP (original post).

....

And this is not even mentioning some of the other more secondary yet still questionable designs in current Akali such as the E being Lee Q on steroids while also on the side having the functionalities similar to Lee W but somewhat better due to no ward requirements, the double-dipping (triple-dipping actually) MS buffs on top of already having like 4 dashes, and stuff like that.

Akali's kit design is quite the big issue throughout.

ΗuaweiDec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

And that's because her W has eaten up SO MUCH BUDGET that the rest of her kits have to be nuked from orbit because of it. Because it's basically outright invincibility against any champ that doesn't have spammable AoE, fuck the ability doesn't even have a cost despite its supreme power; it is clearly way over-budgeted for a basic ability by design, not to mention in practice the outcome is also hilariously binary either completely broken or entirely useless depending on which champ she goes up to (and the latter category is only a handful at best in comparison to the former).

And yes, both the W itself and how it at the same time gimps the rest of the kit by itself both are a definitive example a bad design, as per the theme of OP (original post).

....

And this is not even mentioning some of the other more secondary yet still questionable designs in current Akali such as the E being Lee Q on steroids while also on the side having the functionalities similar to Lee W but somewhat better due to no ward requirements, the double-dipping (triple-dipping actually) MS buffs on top of already having like 4 dashes, and stuff like that.

Akali's kit design is quite the big issue throughout.

Akali's E throws you back quite some distance in comparison to Lee's Q. If you intend to jump to a target with it and miss it then you're in a much worse position that lee would be if he missed his Q. You practically can't chase your target anymore and are out of a fight. The upside ofc is that you can also use it to escape or trigger your passive.

Akali's damage is delayed. There's no denying that to do damage with her ult you need to wait for like 3 seconds and even then it's possible that you will only manage to kill only 1 target with your full rotation but other assasins like talon for example, kayn and khazix can be getting quadra kills with their skills.

Yasuo's windwall and Zoe's sleep bubble and W are much worse offenders than akali's stealth because at least akali doesn't block any ults or skillshots.

And you know what. It's like people complaining about Katarina in the older times. But you can't really complain about katarina if you take 0 CC in your team then she pentas you.

If you see akali then pick at least one champion that can hit her while in W and buy Anti-heal to gimp her healing considerably.

Sure. Akali is not the best design but the community's response is overblown in my opinion. I personally am not that invested in akali and after the nerf in this patch ill simply move on to other champs who are very strong for the moment like Karthus and Zyra.

Now tell me why Karthus Karthus can do 1000~ damage to everyone with a global skill that never misses or needs to be aimed and get DH stacks and we can talk about akali Akali

NepgearDesuDec 4, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ákali exe,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvsNVZ4U,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-12-04T11:18:46.683+0000)

Now tell me why Karthus can do 1000~ damage to everyone with a global skill that never misses or needs to be aimed and get DH stacks and we can talk about akali

Dark Harvest is another example of frustrating, stupid design that could legitimately be removed from the game, or re-reworked. Let us not skew the debate by bringing up interactions that have little to do with a champion's own kit, which you seemed to be discussing first and foremost.

Karthus' global skill that never misses is an ultimate with a long cooldown time, on a character that's so slow and papier mâché that their innate is "when I die I can still attack for a whole 7 seconds". A Karthus you can slow down, silence, kite; his Q can be avoided, his E's range isn't exactly massive. He doesn't have any sort of dash or teleportation, so if he's coming to you, you'll see him. There are a number of things you can do to make him a reasonable threat.

An Akali you can -- shit, the shroud. I suppose you can wait for her delayed burst that she has over five seconds of practical invulnerability to unleash, while shooting in the dark or trying to get away from her numerous dashes and slow. Granted, she won't be obscured if you walk away, but that does mean forfeiting any sort of counter play and preferring the run. For the Akali, at worst it's a zero-sum game. If she can cast her shroud, then you cannot have the initiative in a fight. I believe that this is what pains me most when against her: whatever I do, it is she who sets the tempo of the fight. Karthus is pretty much the opposite.

I can't ban snuff in ARAM, but even if the player doesn't know what they're doing it's just absurd to have a threat appear, disappear, appear, disappear during a fight without being able to do much to get rid of it. I feel mostly powerless, and I'd like to be playing, not idly waiting for the other player to attack me so I can have a split-second to -- miss.

ΗuaweiDec 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Dark Harvest is another example of frustrating, stupid design that could legitimately be removed from the game, or re-reworked. Let us not skew the debate by bringing up interactions that have little to do with a champion's own kit, which you seemed to be discussing first and foremost.

Karthus' global skill that never misses is an ultimate with a long cooldown time, on a character that's so slow and papier mâché that their innate is "when I die I can still attack for a whole 7 seconds". A Karthus you can slow down, silence, kite; his Q can be avoided, his E's range isn't exactly massive. He doesn't have any sort of dash or teleportation, so if he's coming to you, you'll see him. There are a number of things you can do to make him a reasonable threat.

An Akali you can -- shit, the shroud. I suppose you can wait for her delayed burst that she has over five seconds of practical invulnerability to unleash, while shooting in the dark or trying to get away from her numerous dashes and slow. Granted, she won't be obscured if you walk away, but that does mean forfeiting any sort of counter play and preferring the run. For the Akali, at worst it's a zero-sum game. If she can cast her shroud, then you cannot have the initiative in a fight. I believe that this is what pains me most when against her: whatever I do, it is she who sets the tempo of the fight. Karthus is pretty much the opposite.

I can't ban snuff in ARAM, but even if the player doesn't know what they're doing it's just absurd to have a threat appear, disappear, appear, disappear during a fight without being able to do much to get rid of it. I feel mostly powerless, and I'd like to be playing, not idly waiting for the other player to attack me so I can have a split-second to -- miss.

Long cooldown time....

Presence of Mind + Ultimate Hunter + 40% CD.... you can cast it around every 40-60 seconds... very long cooldown

[slayer-jinx-catface]

NepgearDesuDec 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Let us not skew the debate by bringing up interactions that have little to do with a champion's own kit, which you seemed to be discussing first and foremost.

Beside that and the fact that you almost addressed exactly one point of my argumentation, is there anything I can do for you?

Spank the FoxDec 4, 20183 votes

Low elos don’t need to ban Akali, she outplays herself.

Also, are you really making an argument old Akali was fine? Lmfao. You can see her ban rate was almost identical to current banrate when she was last good. After her E nerfs not proc’ing Q again, she plummeted in pickrate & winrate

RexxieeDec 4, 20182 votes

The thing about akali is that you cannot lane against her as like 90% of the champs in the game.

She has to do a mistake for you to be able to do anything, the lane is on her hands not yours, shes the one that has to lose it rather you winning it.

Shes really useless after like mid game but she can still carry by splitting and getting fed off laning phase, its just that its such a terrible experience to play against her that most ppl would rather ban it, and honestly if i had to lane against akali or play against it as an squishy more than twice in a day i'd start banning her too.

ΗuaweiDec 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

The thing about akali is that you cannot lane against her as like 90% of the champs in the game.

She has to do a mistake for you to be able to do anything, the lane is on her hands not yours, shes the one that has to lose it rather you winning it.

Shes really useless after like mid game but she can still carry by splitting and getting fed off laning phase, its just that its such a terrible experience to play against her that most ppl would rather ban it, and honestly if i had to lane against akali or play against it as an squishy more than twice in a day i'd start banning her too.

So akali can get 1-2 kills in lane while a jungler like Kayn can get x3 the kills in the same amount of time, snowball and win the game while it takes a lot of time to use your R as an execute.

Cassiopeia Gragas Kennen Zoe Orianna Riven Aatrox

and i can keep thinking champions that can hit her while in shroud, these are just at the top of my head

RexxieeDec 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ákali exe,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvsNVZ4U,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-12-04T02:48:23.967+0000)

So akali can get 1-2 kills in lane while a jungler like Kayn can get x3 the kills in the same amount of time, snowball and win the game while it takes a lot of time to use your R as an execute.

and i can keep thinking champions that can hit her while in shroud, these are just at the top of my head

Have you actually ever played against an half decent akali? or played AS akali?

Akali will dumpster every single champion in the game in trades while she has her shroud up (and smart akalis will only comit into a trade when they have it up obviously, other than Q pokes), as long as if she isnt bad in the game.

If you're losing trades to any champion while having shroud up as akali you're doing something seriously wrong (like not using ur passive, missing Qs, walking out of the shroud for no reason or something else).

ΗuaweiDec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Have you actually ever played against an half decent akali? or played AS akali?

Akali will dumpster every single champion in the game in trades while she has her shroud up (and smart akalis will only comit into a trade when they have it up obviously, other than Q pokes), as long as if she isnt bad in the game.

If you're losing trades to any champion while having shroud up as akali you're doing something seriously wrong (like not using ur passive, missing Qs, walking out of the shroud for no reason or something else).

Alright. Pick akali and ill pick Orianna that i don't even know how to play and let's see if you'll win me

3ternalkarmaDec 4, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ákali exe,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvsNVZ4U,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-04T03:06:50.198+0000)

Alright. Pick akali and ill pick Orianna that i don't even know how to play and let's see if you'll win me

ever heard of Professor Akali? he even admits that akali has no bad matchup and she can win every single one... its up to akali if she wins lane her opponent doesnt matter at all

ΗuaweiDec 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Not a Neeko Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvsNVZ4U,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-04T10:19:43.140+0000)

ever heard of Professor Akali? he even admits that akali has no bad matchup and she can win every single one... its up to akali if she wins lane her opponent doesnt matter at all

So you're telling me that a champion is only meant to be played by a very very small percentage of the playerbase to have a decent winrate?

3ternalkarmaDec 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ákali exe,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvsNVZ4U,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-04T11:06:12.777+0000)

So you're telling me that a champion is only meant to be played by a very very small percentage of the playerbase to have a decent winrate?

doesn't make it any less cancer to play against whether its a good akali or a bad one.... good ones make you RQ by 5 minutes bad ones make you RQ when they complete gunblade

Hominus NocturnaDec 4, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ákali exe,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvsNVZ4U,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-04T11:06:12.777+0000)

So you're telling me that a champion is only meant to be played by a very very small percentage of the playerbase to have a decent winrate?

Yeah just like Shaco

HawtDec 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

i mean it doesn't really take a genius to know w/e happened was a failure when u look at that..

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/akali/all

Do you have a kitten or a cat lover?

SwiftKitten88Dec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Do you have a kitten or a cat lover?

not sure how that's relevant to this particular thread.

but yes i love cats. no i do not own one at the moment. (no pets allowed here) [sg-janna] but as soon as i get find a place that allows cats i and going to get one my favorite animal is a cheetah. and as the "fastest land animal" they are "swift kittens", hence why i originally picked this name.

it also ties into nidalee because she can turn into a kitty. and she is very agile compared to most champions... ( or at least she was when i started playing her.. i can hardly really say that anymore.. not with champs like Akali Irelia Kayn ...

hell i cant even catch up to a Pyke with my 30% speed boost passive and pounce even if i land my spear to grant true sight of him to follow him through stealth, because he can still just use the long dash at the end up get over walls way to thick for me to pounce over.. and even if i can.. he sets up a stun path to block me from doing so.

Le TongueDec 4, 20181 votes

Maybe you can consider adopting a cat <3 The ones that are bred always find homes but there's so many lonely cats in adoption shelters that sleep alone every night and just want to cuddle up to a hooman :)

Pierce The VealDec 4, 20181 votes

Didn’t even need to see the post to know it was about akali.

As an ex akali main, I am pissed. Akali feels so clunky to play, even clunkier than post mini rework. I swear I was terrified of the rework, but the rework just made her so wonky and unfun to play as or against, less mobile but somehow still more cancerous.

The champion’s skill floor due to a non polished wonky kit is high, and playing against her, even though you win more often than not, feels like crap.

The rework, I would say, was a failure. I want pre mini rework akali back.

ArfBarkBoofDec 4, 20182 votes

Welcome to how I feel about trying to learn the new Aatrox. Sure, he may get played more and all that jazz, but his kit is the very definition of clunk when it comes to the delays on his Q and E. Akali's no different with her E having the jump back beforehand but she's still capable of insane amounts of burst.

GravesingerDec 4, 20181 votes

What're you talking about? New Aatrox is smooth like butter, baby. His abilities are combo city, the whole kit works together in a super-fluid way, it's great. E + Q = Electric Slide of Doom.

ArfBarkBoofDec 4, 20181 votes

Agree to disagree, I don't find him that smooth but then again I'm used to silly stuff like Wreck-um-Tom.

Pierce The VealDec 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Welcome to how I feel about trying to learn the new Aatrox. Sure, he may get played more and all that jazz, but his kit is the very definition of clunk when it comes to the delays on his Q and E. Akali's no different with her E having the jump back beforehand but she's still capable of insane amounts of burst.

Yeah I feel you on aatrox. But akali’s burst is still far more delayed than many mages and assassins now. She’s just infuriating to play against and only really fun to play if you haven’t tried the old akali. The Akali mains subreddit is clamoring to get her reverted.

EleshakaiDec 4, 20181 votes

That doesn't mean the DESIGN was a failure, but it might mean BALANCE isn't ideal.

SwiftKitten88Dec 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

That doesn't mean the DESIGN was a failure, but it might mean BALANCE isn't ideal.

well it could mean design was a failure too. i mean sure they can probably fix akali by making her W cost 40 energy and not GIVE 40 energy and put the energy refresh on her passive.

and although i admit they did code it very well, there was absolute no need to make the "obscured" it flat out didn't need to exist. they just stuck it there for no reason... she would have been perfectly fine without it...

if your kit dones't need to it function... it should have it.

this goes for all added effects to skills

if a champion doesn NEED a slow.. dont give them a slot... if they dont NEED a root.. done give them the root.

if they dont NEED true damage.. or armor pen.. dont give it to them.

i mean certain things like grievous wounds on skills is ok,

for example.. Varus E has grevious wounds, as does Katarina ulti.

thats something that give the skill useful situations but doesn't break the champion.

i mean sure there are exceptions.. im not going to say this is "end all be all"

but if you are designing a rework.. u dont need to tack on entra things because "well wouldn't it be cool if X", maybe it would be.. yeah but does she need it? no.. you can add things to a skill if its necessary to add it.

the design philosophy of.. "lets do X" just because we can. isn't a good one. thats why every single rework and new champion since season 7 has been completely fucking overloaded. because they keep tacking on stuff they don't need to to the skills

EleshakaiDec 4, 20181 votes

Oh no, I'm not saying that her design IS good(although, I personally like it)... all I'm saying is that there is no correlation between win rate and quality of design. Win rate is a measure of BALANCE not DESIGN.