Let's talk crowd control

Pierce The Veal·Dec 22, 2015·4 votes·1,261 views

Every champion has it. Multiple items have it. But let's be honest to ourselves, there's too damn much of it. One slow is chained by another, allowing you to get hit by mutliple stuns, snares, and knockups. And furthermore, now that flash gets locked up by cc (so you can't spam flash and get out between crowd control) League has just gotten really annoying. I would honestly prefer the "instantly get deleted" of old to today's "get locked up for 5 years without a chance to escape on your own." So what can we do about it?

39 Comments

Mecha MaIphiteDec 22, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Every champion has it.

MasterYi Nidalee Mordekaiser item 3070

Pierce The VealDec 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Just build deadman's, randuins, rylai's, frozen heart, or frost queen's claim.

RalanrDec 23, 20152 votes

They don't naturally have it though.

Lights And MagicDec 22, 20156 votes

{quoted}

You forgot Katarina But death is the best cc. And also Ezreal Corki Lucian Sivir

If you really hate cc that much play Irelia and build item 3111 and item 3140 with summoner 1 or just Morgana

AlakalzamDec 22, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lights And Magic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvVhIg2m,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-12-22T21:58:01.358+0000)

You forgot But death is the best cc. And also

Doesn't corki's big jump leave behind a trail that slows enemies? Granted, not the best cc, but, yeah....it sucks.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lights And Magic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvVhIg2m,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-12-22T21:58:01.358+0000)

You forgot But death is the best cc. And also

If you really hate cc that much play and build and with or just

Good example, those are champions that A) shouldn't have cc especially in the case of katarina, who's never played because of the amount of cc today B) are basically out of range of a lot of cc. Might get cc'ed eventually, but they have quite a but of wiggle room. Anyone who's melee and is cc'ed is dead by the time people reach the cc'ed carry.

Lights And MagicDec 23, 20151 votes

Gangplank Irelia Olaf

(and for slows) MasterYi Evelynn

Also remember that death is the best cc

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lights And Magic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvVhIg2m,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2015-12-23T23:03:26.367+0000)

(and for slows)

Also remember that death is the best cc

CC is the best leadup to death.

LeadpaintchipsDec 22, 20151 votes

have to agree, there's a lot of cc out there, making those champions that are screwed by it (hello Kat) just not worth picking.

Pierce The VealDec 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

have to agree, there's a lot of cc out there, making those champions that are screwed by it (hello Kat) just not worth picking.

yeah it's sort of ridiculous

LeadpaintchipsDec 23, 20151 votes

Even if it's a small % of the total champions that do have CC (and a even less amount of hard CC), there's just such a large pool to grab from that with only 3 bans per side, you can't play these champs. Even if both sides had 5 champs to ban, it still wouldn't be enough, because you also have to consider the flavor bans.

MunchCrunchLunchDec 22, 20151 votes

its pretty much true. i often get teams with 3-4 and even 5 people that can cc-slow. perma slow for days while they just pray on you lol. you cant do anything about it. qss 90 second cooldowns.

Pierce The VealDec 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

its pretty much true. i often get teams with 3-4 and even 5 people that can cc-slow. perma slow for days while they just pray on you lol. you cant do anything about it. qss 90 second cooldowns.

Cleanse+qss doesn't cut it.

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

We can make Stormrider's surge give 100% slow reduction when triggered. Kinda like what Riot is doing on the PBE.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

We can make Stormrider's surge give 100% slow reduction when triggered. Kinda like what Riot is doing on the PBE.

Yeah, it's also why that will be my go to mastery for a long time. But hard cc is way more common than just slows. So that won't help.

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

CC is one of the main strengths of a tank (even their durability means nothing if they can't utilize it). Making it easier to shrug off makes tanks pointless and kinda sends, "league of mobility" on full drive.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

CC is one of the main strengths of a tank (even their durability means nothing if they can't utilize it). Making it easier to shrug off makes tanks pointless and kinda sends, "league of mobility" on full drive.

Knockups cannot be reduced.

It's not the fact that it's easier to shrug off, it's that 3 champions in concert can keep you locked up for 10-20 second. Brand alone has a 2 second stun on a 3.6 second cooldown when he builds cc.

I'm saying that maybe cc being so readily available on such a short cooldwon to a significant amount of champions is actually a bad thing. I mean sure "muh league of mobility," but even during the league of mobility, cc was really strong, in the league of cc, nothing beats cc. Not damage, not mobility, and not even tankiness.

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

I may be incorrect, but Brand has to interact with his passive to stun someone correct?

Tanks usually have a CC button instead of a combo that rewards CC.

As for champions that are shut down completely by CC to the point that they are unviable (like Kat) well the problem isn't in the prevalence of their counter, but their inherent design.

If Kat or Yi are in a game with no CC, they will dominate if they have half and understanding on how to play their champion. Kat is a resourceless (possibly the only resourceless) Mage who gets resets on her abilities with kills. Does that sound balanced on its own? Not to me, but hard CC makes it feel balanced.

Honestly I think Kat should be in the Mage rework that's been rumored.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I may be incorrect, but Brand has to interact with his passive to stun someone correct?

Tanks usually have a CC button instead of a combo that rewards CC.

As for champions that are shut down completely by CC to the point that they are unviable (like Kat) well the problem isn't in the prevalence of their counter, but their inherent design.

If Kat or Yi are in a game with no CC, they will dominate if they have half and understanding on how to play their champion. Kat is a resourceless (possibly the only resourceless) Mage who gets resets on her abilities with kills. Does that sound balanced on its own? Not to me, but hard CC makes it feel balanced.

Honestly I think Kat should be in the Mage rework that's been rumored.

I have no problem with any of what you said.

My problem is that champion A can use cc, then champion B, then champion C. And this entire combo will be back up by the time the cc ends.

Brand "having to combo" is true, but the fact that he can press e then q means he's doesn't even need to try his hardest, let alone when he buys rylais. After that you'll be stunned 2 seconds out of 3.6 unless he really messes up.

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

My problem is that champion A can use cc, then champion B, then champion C. And this entire combo will be back up by the time the cc ends.

Teamwork OP.

Should you really punish a team for comboing their abilities together or making it less viable?

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Teamwork OP.

Should you really punish a team for comboing their abilities together or making it less viable?

Maybe you should when one person clicking an ability means everyone can land their abilities without trying to keep the guy locked down for much longer than any champion can resist.

If anything, reducing the effect of chained cc would encourage people to space out their cc by like 0.1 second, requiring more skillful teamplay.

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

When that guy is DrMundo who has a tendency to run away and heal everything back, I disagree. It's hard enough to get people to work together in soloQ.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

When that guy is who has a tendency to run away and heal everything back, I disagree. It's hard enough to get people to work together in soloQ.

Well then Riot would have to say a team that can't work together doesn't deserve to be highly ranked.

And chain cc would still work, just not as well. Previously you could actually queue up flash or abilities in the middle of chain cc to barely escape. Now almost all cc acts like a silence to mobility spells and doesn't even allow them to be queued up for an escape.

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

When it's soloQ it isn't really a team. People have enough problems working together, but they should be rewarded for working together and at higher elos they will be more encouraged to work together because it's what got them there.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

When it's soloQ it isn't really a team. People have enough problems working together, but they should be rewarded for working together and at higher elos they will be more encouraged to work together because it's what got them there.

When workig together means that someone has no chance to fight back or escape, I think that may be a bit of a problem.

At the very least they should remove the mobility silence that goes on during cc. It doesn't even allow queueing up of escapes, which is silly considering the fact that a "team" should be able to handle one person trying to escape.

If you further disagree, then it just means that you're against a single player being able to do anythig on their own, or even utilize their own skill.

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

Considering how much I don't like Bursting from full to zero, I cannot say you analysis of me is accurate.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Considering how much I don't like Bursting from full to zero, I cannot say you analysis of me is accurate.

I didn't analyze you,

I'm just saying that at some point the individual needs to have a chance to fight back or run away. His chance should be small, but if he's good enough he should be able to.

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

I apologize. Really I just think that people need to pick their fights carefully and should be punished heavily for mistaking their fights.

But obviously I'm biased. I'm a tank main and I enjoy being able to hold someone down for my team to ruin. If I can't do my job because they bought enough tenacity items to get away (because Carries who are fed have no excuse to not have those items) then I officially become useless because I can't gather the focus of the enemy team.

AbyssphereDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Knockups cannot be reduced.

It's not the fact that it's easier to shrug off, it's that 3 champions in concert can keep you locked up for 10-20 second. Brand alone has a 2 second stun on a 3.6 second cooldown when he builds cc.

I'm saying that maybe cc being so readily available on such a short cooldwon to a significant amount of champions is actually a bad thing. I mean sure "muh league of mobility," but even during the league of mobility, cc was really strong, in the league of cc, nothing beats cc. Not damage, not mobility, and not even tankiness.

There's always been this amount of CC, though. The newest champions aren't comparitively CC heavy.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There's always been this amount of CC, though. The newest champions aren't comparitively CC heavy.

It's become an increasingly big problem with the reduction of tenacity and the increased difficulty of reaching tenacity in the mastery trees.

And the hard cc also now prevents mobility spels from being queued up, unlike before where you could escape between the 4 stun/snares/cc they were throwing out at you.

OH MAN NOT GOODDec 23, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

QSS. Get good, bro.

Joking aside, adding more tenacity items would probably help. Also, making QSS have charges would be great for those tryhard Rivens like me that always get screwed over by point and click cc :3

QSS has what, a 90 second cooldown? I mean, everyone's saying just build QSS everywhere, but unless you like the upgrade it's not a very good item, considering you're gonna get cc locked immediately after it.

Tenacity is really needed with the current state of the game.

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

On tanks sure, not on carries.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

On tanks sure, not on carries.

Well no shit.

Who's QSS good on besides ADC's?

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

That's not tenacity, that's a cleanse.

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That's not tenacity, that's a cleanse.

And? So what if it's a cleanse? CC can be reapplied right after it, and it only upgrades into an AD lifesteal item. It's alos only up once every 90 second. It's not solving any problems.

RalanrDec 23, 20151 votes

item 3102 also blocks spells.

Tenacity just lowers the duration of CC, it doesn't outright remove it or block it.

CC sucks, but dying sucks a lot more (and if you're playing a carry, there's not much of a difference). The best way to deal with CC is to try and avoid it (which in some cases is "impossible" because you walked into Annie 's point and click range).

Pierce The VealDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

also blocks spells.

Tenacity just lowers the duration of CC, it doesn't outright remove it or block it.

CC sucks, but dying sucks a lot more (and if you're playing a carry, there's not much of a difference). The best way to deal with CC is to try and avoid it (which in some cases is "impossible" because you walked into 's point and click range).

The problem moreso isn't an individual cc (except in the case of Morgana), the problem is that you can be cc'ed for over 6 seconds if any competent team chains it, without the chance to fight back.

That point and click range? Yeah a lot of champions don't outrange that.