Kleptomancy ruins an important balance aspect: income rate

The Ecdysiast··6 votes·3,135 views

Before you downvote, consider this: for it to benefit a champion more than any other keystone option, it by its nature must be overpowered.

Why would a champion take Electrocute, Arcane Comet, or Press the Attack? The answer is pretty obvious-- to have more damage, because more damage means more kills, more kills means more gold, more gold means you get stronger more quickly than the opponent and can win the game earlier, when having that lead matters most.

And in general those who take damage keystones are the champions with relatively strong early damage, the ones who are rewarded for being aggressive earlier.

Now, why would you take Kleptomancy? There are three reasons which must be met for it to be your best choice:

  • You scale well with items-- making you a late-game champion.
  • Your early damage is so weak that bringing a damage keystone wouldn't supplement it enough to reliably get you early kills, especially against an early-game champion with a similar damage rune.
  • You are not an on-hit/sustained damage champion. Because though they do also scale with items, they're better off bringing either Lethal Tempo-- to amplify their strength once they're around half build and beyond, or Fleet Footwork-- to help them survive the early game and kite with more ease come time for teamfights. Or for non-marksmen, Conqeuror since it provides a similar damage boost to tempo.

So you're best off biding your time and playing safely until you have items, mainly from farming. As a caveat, your power spike doesn't come until far later in a match. That's how it's balanced out. In exchange for the risk you could lose early if you aren't cautious enough, you get a better chance at winning as the game gets further along.

But Kleptomancy allows you to bypass the very aspect of your playstyle that makes it balanced-- the over-time nature of income. It's perfectly fine to get a reward for reaching 4-6 items when the enemy has had ample opportunity to capitalize on your weakness. But Kleptomancy brings you to that point much sooner than you're supposed to be there.

Subsequently, if they're to keep Kleptomancy in the game then you have to be nerfed to compensate (as with Gangplank), or held back from needed adjustments because you reach late game items far sooner than the actual late game (as with Ezreal). Which is very, very odd...

Because outside of the recently-removed cheese strat of abusing support items at top, Gangplank and Ezreal are the only champions it's been the best option for. (You might count Illaoi, but as of the introduction of Conqeuror it's been outperforming Klepto on her by quite a lot). So that's only 2, maybe 3 out of 143 champions who are best off with this rune. In my opinion, far from enough to justify its existence.


I think it should be removed from the game, and replaced with a different rune suitable for the Inspiration tree but unrelated to income. Perhaps something to do with experience. Maybe something like, if you're in the proximity of an ally who doesn't also have this rune, you gain full experience from minions they kill. Supports could bring it to hit two and six a level sooner and partially supplement their lack of income with levels.

10 Comments

Illabethe4 votes

Um...... Then what about Draven Gangplank TwistedFate ? All three have inherent gold income in their kits. Yet their kits are nothing to laugh at either.

Draven gets ONE kill after farming a few minion stacks..... it changes an entire game. He launches into 1v5 territory. TF in good hands can 2 shot anyone not in a safe spot at the time he arbitrarily ults, and has extremely high damage ratios. GP has Crit back, and can literally 1 shot with Q.

P.S. Illaoi has still been a Klepto. Conquerer is chosen less than 13%, and is 2% less successful than Klepto

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Um...... Then what about Draven Gangplank TwistedFate ? All three have inherent gold income in their kits. Yet their kits are nothing to laugh at either.

Draven gets ONE kill after farming a few minion stacks..... it changes an entire game. He launches into 1v5 territory. TF in good hands can 2 shot anyone not in a safe spot at the time he arbitrarily ults, and has extremely high damage ratios. GP has Crit back, and can literally 1 shot with Q.

Because that aspect of their kits was designed to fit in said kits. Gangplank gets that supplemental income because reliance on items and weakness in the early game is even heftier than most. Twisted fate likewise has low damage and range for a mage.

Draven is a case where this get-to-late aspect was always the whole intent behind his kit. He's strong early and is punished harshly if he doesn't abuse that. That's why he falls off so much harder than other ADCs late game.

Gangplank... can't 1-shot with Q like you're claiming. Because his old crit build relied on Infinity Edge being extremely powerful without attack speed. So now it's much worse for him than before. And in fact since Stormrazer was changed his win rate has taken a nose dive.

Illabethe1 votes
  1. The kits do fine without the gold. They DO NOT NEED IT.

  2. Make all the excuses you want. I've seen late game Dravens hurt more than any other adc.

  3. News Flash: GP is BACK to his old build, and IE has 10 more AD, costs 200g less. His Q can literally crit 1700 and apply on hit effects. Yes. it can 1 hit. If an adc gets near him, he will 1 shot them.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

  1. The kits do fine without the gold. They DO NOT NEED IT.

  2. Make all the excuses you want. I've seen late game Dravens hurt more than any other adc.

  3. News Flash: GP is BACK to his old build, and IE has 10 more AD, costs 200g less. His Q can literally crit 1700 and apply on hit effects. Yes. it can 1 hit. If an adc gets near him, he will 1 shot them.

  1. The kits have always had the gold and yet the champions have been balanced. So evidently they do need it.

  2. Biased personal observation has nothing to do with the statistical facts. Just because you don't know how to buy armor or don't know how to play an assassin doesn't mean other people don't.

  3. Really? What's your source? Because you're literally lying. On both points.

You'd have a point with your original comment if GP hadn't gotten a nerf to his parrrley gold because of Klepto, but he did. If you wanted to say klepto is fine then it wouldn't have had that adverse effect on a champion with his own income ability.

Saezio1 votes

Prior to conqueror tons of toplaners used to pick it, especially in high elo. Jax, fiora for example. Sona support also is very good with it. Viktor top used to get it as well

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Prior to conqueror tons of toplaners used to pick it, especially in high elo. Jax, fiora for example. Sona support also is very good with it. Viktor top used to get it as well

Jax and Fiora doesn't really equate to "tons". And the fact of the matter is conqueror exists now. The only reason they took klepto was exactly because they're hypercarries and wanted items earlier. I included Conqueror in my post specifically because several champs who might've taken klepto before stopped doing so when a rune was made specifically for them.

Viktor top, who was fixed so he couldn't go top, is another that can't be used as an example. Since he was only abusing it and a tank build. That only supports my point that it isn't healthy for the game.

Sona doesn't bring it. She's another that has a better option. The thing about Klepto is that it doesn't actually change your play style, it just hinders you if it isn't your best option.

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Bt8LLyi6,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-22T11:52:39.539+0000)

Before you downvote, consider this: for it to benefit a champion more than any other keystone option, it by its nature must be overpowered.

Overpowered is not sufficiently defined here. Do you mean it's more powerful than its other options for that champion? Because that's completely intentional, expected, and healthy for the game.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Overpowered is not sufficiently defined here. Do you mean it's more powerful than its other options for that champion? Because that's completely intentional, expected, and healthy for the game.

Sure it is... when it doesn't result in that champion being nerfed to accommodate the rune/item.

Yes, a champion having a best build path is intentional. But you can't say spellthief+klepto top or runeglaive mid Ezreal were expected and healthy with that reasoning, either.

Here, overpowered is defined as something that gives a champion too much power. That's kind of self-explanatory. It happens quite often, a champion getting nerfed because they want to keep an item or rune in its current state.... only to then nerf the item/rune and forget to revert the changes to that particular champion:

Cinderhulk Sejuani, Sated Xin Zhao, Runeglaive Ezreal, Stopwatch Ryze, Courage of the Colossus Poppy, just off of the top of my head.

Klepto Gangplank and Ezreal are just the latest in a long list.

iiGazeii1 votes

There's a pretty simple solution to this problem: Make Kleptomancy put the gold you get in a bank. You can't spend it. It's locked up. Instead of just autoattacks landed on champions, it would also add a small portion of the gold you get from CS and takedowns. When you die, you'd lose a chunk of gold out of your bank.

All that gold would sit there for a certain amount of time (e.g., 20 minutes), with that time going down when you get a kill (think Magical Footwear). Once that timer expires, you get to cash in all the gold you stored with Kleptomancy.

This version would still give gold acceleration, but it wouldn't be until the mid/late game that you actually got that gold. It wouldn't let these champions with a weak early game accelerate past their weak stage - it would only make their powerful stage even stronger. By having the timer get lower with kills, it encourages and rewards you for being aggressive and skilled with a faster payout.

Kleptomancy users would be rewarded not for playing extremely safe and just farming, but for actively engaging with their enemy and trying to get as much gold as they can, CSing properly, and getting kills.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

There's a pretty simple solution to this problem: Make Kleptomancy put the gold you get in a bank. You can't spend it. It's locked up. Instead of just autoattacks landed on champions, it would also add a small portion of the gold you get from CS and takedowns. When you die, you'd lose a chunk of gold out of your bank.

All that gold would sit there for a certain amount of time (e.g., 20 minutes), with that time going down when you get a kill (think Magical Footwear). Once that timer expires, you get to cash in all the gold you stored with Kleptomancy.

This version would still give gold acceleration, but it wouldn't be until the mid/late game that you actually got that gold. It wouldn't let these champions with a weak early game accelerate past their weak stage - it would only make their powerful stage even stronger. By having the timer get lower with kills, it encourages and rewards you for being aggressive and skilled with a faster payout.

Kleptomancy users would be rewarded not for playing extremely safe and just farming, but for actively engaging with their enemy and trying to get as much gold as they can, CSing properly, and getting kills.

That's a actually a fantastic idea. I don't agree that kills should reduce the timer, though. Maybe it'd be better for kills to reduce the amount you lose on death. Then there's still incentive, but it doesn't get accelerated in any way.

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