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I repeat: Dumpster Tahm and rework him

Moody P··63 votes·13,792 views

Do not let this champion fester in top lane. He hits almost every single hallmark of a terrible design.

Tahm Kench is the least interactive lane bully and cannot be punished. Even Pantheon and Renekton give leeway for opponents to handle them. When Tahm is open you can either play a ranged champion or spend the rest of your lane under tower. Tahm missing his Q doesn't matter at all; if you try to fight him you are only doing his job of engaging for him.

Tahm cannot be poked out of lane. Even ranged champions have to concede lane priority in order to let him push and spam Klepto on his fat head. His high regen makes sure he rarely dips low on trades and pokes and all inning him is suicide thanks to his ridiculous shield values. This same shield is why Tahm can set up effortless 100-0 tower dives with his jungler and kill you. Simultaneously, your jungle ganking him is a complete waste of time since he takes so ridiculously long to kill even in the early game.

Tahm is horrible late game. This champion is old Nunu on crack and shoved into top lane; he will make YOU useless and completely hate the game you're playing and then become useless himself. Except not really; Tahm maintains a high win rate in the 60%s for the first 25 minutes of the game that still dips to above 50% after 30. The average game is about this long so in the "late game" that most people actually play into he's still a menace.

If you are going to balance Tahm as a top lane then you need to BALANCE him as a top lane. Some suggestions;

  • Passive stack duration nerfed to 4 seconds and a timer is put on the debuff that appears on your champion bar.
  • Q slow buffs reverted.
  • E shield is capped to a % of Tahm's health until rank 3 of the spell.
  • Bonus damage passive put back onto his ultimate.
  • Q+W being free reverted

Of course you could just trash him instead and I wouldn't regard that as a loss. Tahm is one of the worst designs put into this game and shouldn't be viable at all.

66 Comments

Glaricion24 votes

It's top lane, so don't think Riot'll get to it until S10.

Best way to get him reworked, rebalanced, or urgutted is to somehow get people to play Kench mid. Maybe spread the news he has a ~55% WR whilst conveniently failing to mention his <1% pick rate?

zeskgames4 votes

Don't worry, as soon as someone picks him in LCS, Riot will nerf him ASAP.

ShadzMadz22 votes

.....or they can stop balancing the game based off of proplay and make him a support again, its really annoying how champions have to become useless or banished to the toplane because of proplay.

D357R0Y3R6 votes

Who told you that proplay gutted him?

he was a fucking garbage designed support who nullified 99% of league's spells on an adc with W, even if it weren't for pro play such design should not be allowed in this game

Z3Sleeper9 votes

Agreed. It's not purely a pro-play issue, he made solo Q stale too with his mobile Zhonya threat.

It's another case of a new mechanic where they said "We can create a champion that can do this" and instead of looking deeper into "should they do this" they just threw it into the live servers to see if it worked.

Eleshakai5 votes

I've been saying this since launch... devour is as powerful as most champs ults. It should've been Tahm's ult right from the beginning, and had a much higher cooldown. Devour itself isn't a problem - it just shouldn't be a basic ability. Make it his ult, then redesign his kit to have a proper qwe setup that isn't busted AF. Tadaa, balanceable champion.

Imagine if Nami's wave were her E and had a low cooldown. Think how broken she'd be? Or if Soraka's w stood for 'wish' instead...

Zeppelins circus3 votes

{quoted}

I've been saying this since launch... devour is as powerful as most champs ults. It should've been Tahm's ult right from the beginning, and had a much higher cooldown. Devour itself isn't a problem - it just shouldn't be a basic ability. Make it his ult, then redesign his kit to have a proper qwe setup that isn't busted AF. Tadaa, balanceable champion.

Imagine if Nami's wave were her E and had a low cooldown. Think how broken she'd be? Or if Soraka's w stood for 'wish' instead...

To top on that his ult somewhat a trend in that season he was released like TF, pantheon, reksai, taliyah which were popular is some mediocre teleport. Yeah I know it is his "theme". But its really out of place

Eleshakai5 votes

Yep. His teleport is somewhat thematic, but it also makes for a really weird champ kit that is weirdly trying to be offensive and defensive at the same time.

He's also prettymuch the only champ in he game with two skills that are at that 'ult' power-level, and it means everything else about his kit needs to be gutted to nothing or he just completely dictates the meta on his own. If they get rid of the teleport and just focus on devour as his ult, they can probably make a pretty damned compelling kit.

AlienPrimate2 votes

After reading this comment chain I came up with an idea. Make devour his ult and add a significant movement speed buff to it while removing the ability to cast it on enemies. Make his W a moderate cooldown, short ranged teleport that functions exactly as his ult does now. Do something like one screen length teleport with around a 40 second cd at rank 1 and scale it down to around 25 at rank 5.

Eleshakai1 votes

Which defeats the entire purpose of making devour his ult. If he has two ult-strength abilities, his kit needs to suck to make up for it. Give him one ult-strength ability and he can have a real kit.

AlienPrimate2 votes

I wouldn't call a 1 screen length teleport with a moderate cast time that is cancelled by damage an ultimate worthy ability.

Eleshakai2 votes

Then you have literally 0 concept of how powerful strategic movement abilities are and that's okay.

SanKakU2 votes

He's still a support, whoever is telling you that he isn't is lying to you. All they did was make his devour a lot more powerful to enemy champs that don't have a very large amount of HP, while also nerfing the movement speed of him after eating?

AnotherFeeder3 votes

{quoted}

He's still a support, whoever is telling you that he isn't is lying to you. All they did was make his devour a lot more powerful to enemy champs that don't have a very large amount of HP, while also nerfing the movement speed of him after eating?

I haven't seen a support tahm kench all season. Not one.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

As someone that was a huge Tahm player when he first released and for a long time after, I stopped playing him much at all after the CD nerf to his Devour and just stopped completely after his recent changes. I loved being able to stick it to all in engage supports and they destroyed that part of him so now I have zero reason to ever play him in Support.

AnotherFeeder13 votes

I think if they want him to be a support again, they should just remove his ability to eat enemy champions completely. I don't think he needs that mechanic, and it's extremely difficult to balance.

TheSingularity4 votes

The problem then becomes, why pick tahm? That single ability is tahm kench. Everything else is secondary candy sprinkled on top. You don't pick tahm supp for Q/E/R, you pick him to eat team mates out of harms way

AnotherFeeder3 votes

{quoted}

The problem then becomes, why pick tahm? That single ability is tahm kench. Everything else is secondary candy sprinkled on top. You don't pick tahm supp for Q/E/R, you pick him to eat team mates out of harms way

???

I just said... remove his ability to eat enemy champions... not teammates....

TheSingularity2 votes

mb skipped a word.

The thigh guy8 votes

So it’s okay for another champion to do the exact same thing botlane. But not in toplane. Mkay.

DeusVult8 votes

Bot lane is a 2v2 matchup, involving ranged champs in 90+% of games. Ranged champs that can poke Tahm out, especially since he isnt going to level as fast because of split XP. He is also getting way less gold because he is on a support eco, so less health/resists from items because he cannot afford them.

Meanwhile in top lane Tahm into melee matchups as a counterpick is hell. He has kill pressure on you for most of the early to mid game because he has really high base damages and health scaling. His Q hits like a truck, and is either a 2 second slow (70% at rank 5, so level 9) or a 1.5 second stun. And it gets to a 4 second CD, so 2.4 second CD with 40% cdr (which is pretty easy to get to in the mid game as Tahm) So a spammable 70% slow makes it nearly impossible to get away once you are fighting him, and he can eat you to wait for renewed Q CD. People complain about Nasus slow, but that only gets to 70% at rank 3, which Nasus would only get at level 10, or more likely 15, because he doesnt level it first (or second). Even then Nasus W only slows for 70% for 1 second at rank 3 (2 seconds for ranks 4/5) because the slow scales over a duration.

Champions do different things in different lanes. Panth/Renek are bullies in top lane matchups, but are garbage in bot lane 2v2s. Vayne has a weak 2v2 in bot lane, but bullies the hell out of most melee champs in top lane.

floo7 votes

For once I agree with you. If I can blind pick tahm top in autofill and go 7/0, only dying if I overstay and they have to group to kill me, there's something sincerely wrong with that champ. He's ridiculously strong atm.

Laçez1 votes

{quoted}

For once I agree with you. If I can blind pick tahm top in autofill and go 7/0, only dying if I overstay and they have to group to kill me, there's something sincerely wrong with that champ. He's ridiculously strong atm.

Idk why people are downvoting you, it's completely true.

floo1 votes

{quoted}

Idk why people are downvoting you, it's completely true.

I don't know either, things like these aren't acceptable: https://prnt.sc/ny3ogt Mind you, I wasn't camped or anything. Ivern ganked maybe 3 times the entire game, the rest I could solo pressure Irelia even under tower..

Hvsao6 votes

May I introduce you to our lord and savior Pyke?

Laçez5 votes

I don't understand why this is being highlighted now, I'm not saying I support him being in the top lane but him being there has always been a one sided downhill battle when you're against him, I'm confused as to why people stopped playing it and why it is resurfacing now. Even then when I vented my thoughts about interacting with Tahm being an impossible task, I got downvoted & even told that he is a "juggernaut", (which makes everything Ok all of a sudden? I think not). Now it's come back to bite people in the butt & I cannot say I'm surprised.

Zeppelins circus1 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand why this is being highlighted now, I'm not saying I support him being in the top lane but him being there has always been a one sided downhill battle when you're against him, I'm confused as to why people stopped playing it and why it is resurfacing now. Even then when I vented my thoughts about interacting with Tahm being an impossible task, I got downvoted & even told that he is a "juggernaut", (which makes everything Ok all of a sudden? I think not). Now it's come back to bite people in the butt & I cannot say I'm surprised.

Because he is a "juggernaut" that does not need AD items and unlike mundo has actual CC and cannot be countered by executioners calling.

Laçez2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BrKJyW8t,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-06-05T15:46:05.426+0000)

Because he is a "juggernaut" that does not need AD items and unlike mundo has actual CC and cannot be countered by executioners calling.

But that's the thing, he is a support. Much like Shen or Braum. He shouldn't be dealing damage but assisting his team in doing so. I'm completely on your side with how you feel about Tahm & it is ridiculous how Tanks are the ones that are dealing damage & stomping lanes. People are complaining about damage in every area of the game & it is 100% true. Aside from maybe... Yuumi lol

SanKakU1 votes

Because he kills everyone after the latest buffs to devour.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

His Devour got nerfed, wtf are you talking about? It was his Q and E that got buffed.

SanKakU1 votes

At 1000 HP, his level 5 Devour with the old numbers is doing 10 less damage. His passive was also buffed in the early game. He just has way too much early game power now, especially against lower HP targets. Devour is costing 10 less mana than before, and it has minus 8 seconds cooldown level 1, and only plus 4 seconds cooldown at level 5. He was basically buffed everywhere that matters. Winning the early game has a huge impact on the rest of the game.

Akali is SO HOT4 votes

Gets more damage for building tanky btw

MorgManBasher4 votes

Jesus you people are whiney.

He's been played top for barely any time now, stop whining and learn to play against it for a while.

Void Kaiju4 votes

Tahm Kench top is pretty much a skill check. If your are an adaptable player you can win. If not then I'm sure he's your worst nightmare.

People who are used to just getting to go in and win trades or freely all-in any time the enemy laner approaches will get stomped. It's what TK does. People who know how to farm it out and play safe will crush him. He is garbage at taking towers and if he doesn't get to snowball he quickly becomes useless.

He's only "broken" if all you do is play hard all-in champions and expect to just beat everything. Which makes him quite good in the current meta of stick to them till they die toplaners.

I pretty much never lose lane to TK top. Pick a tank. Pick Cho'Gath because he's amazing and has no problems punting Tahm across the map early. Play a champion who can use BoTRK or Liandries Torment. Or pick somebody with good poke. Or somebody whose trades are short enough that TK doesn't get to threestack them and slowly whittle him down. Or somebody who can farm it out and become more useful than him in teamfights (pretty much every champ is more useful than Tahm in teamfights).

You can't expect the exact same strat to work against every champion. He gets major advantages 1v1, it's how he works. But if TK can't get W or stun off on you he doesn't get to win his trades. If your jungler comes he should just be straight up dead. Swap aggro so he doesn't get to use W early in the fight, or wait until he W a minion and abuse the cooldown. If he can't Devour one of you he's stuck in a 1v2 where he is much weaker instead of being able to turn it into 1v1 which he is god at.

Zeppelins circus3 votes

We seen this many times over folks. A support ruining toplane.

Sugar Momma2 votes

I think also nerfing his early game for late game buffs would be appropriate as well.

I tried playing Tahm top and that shit is actually busted. Not even jg pressure stops him early bc his 1 v 2 potential is so high.

5050BS2 votes

This Top lane is too punishing. Hate seeing him top

NHighway2 votes

I think what would help a lot is if his passive him let him only once eat you or stun you then be on a cooldown for 20-30 seconds minimum. It's bad enough you runaway get stunned and eaten but it happens again right after he spits you out. It's terrible.

FiveAneurysms2 votes

Its getting tiring honestly, every champion dumpster cause of proplay is thrown toplane and a cancer mechanic is given to them, stop using our lane as a garbage can for your mistakes please

Invexes1 votes

Tahm used to have so much utility that he made shen look like a purly solo que champion. Seriously devour and an unconditional two man simi-global teleaport.

Defiantly need to free up some of his power budget in a rework

General Esdeath 1 votes

Yeah that's nice and all but we gotta focus on the real issues, like Rammus' teamfight damage

Did you see that shit? He did 300 damage with his ult in that team fight! Fucking broken OP pls nerf tyty7

Lovelle1 votes

I think his debuff duration that he applies should be reduced, it would give the opponent time to actually fight him. They reduced the duration of Trundle's Q debuff by 3 seconds, and it's nowhere near as powerful as Tahm's Q.

The King Diamond1 votes

Nerf that Q cd. 4 seconds without any cdr is fucking ridiculous.

LunarFoxz1 votes

tahm is in a good place as a supp. what they SHOULD do is find a way to nerf top lane/mid tahm

4th3t0s1 votes

On a side note, an adjustment to his passive stacks being consumed either on Q stun or W; getting stunlocked/permaslowed only for him to chunk you with W is bullshit

Kiss My Egg1 votes

And what from that? Even if he is fed, game may be easily lost when team dies. Despite I won top many times, much of these games were lost.

RoakeyDoakey361 votes

One champ: Shen

Q deals %max hp magic damage, meaning health only increases his damage W almost guarantees winning trades, since Tahm has to auto to deal his damage E for great engage and disengage And unlike most top laners, Tahm doesn't get a lvl 6 power spike, due to his ult not made for combat. Plus you can easily follow up with any of his ganks.

Also, since you usually build titanic first against him, you deal mixed damage, meaning he really can't build against you early, and your short Q cooldown will also win long engages. If you're good with Shen and his positioning, you don't even have to engage with your e, and can either leave after dealing half his hp in damage, or reengage and maybe kill him.

Tioym1 votes

Delete him.

ChaosReyn1 votes

Imagine the guy shitty about the Voli rework demanding a rework for Tahm. :P

But in all seriousness, what they need to do is just shift his W back to a more support role, or instead of doubling the cooldown when used on allies, double it when used to take off 1/3 of someone's HP.

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