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Okay so the amount of special exceptions being added the game is getting to be too much.

hashinshin··4 votes·1,638 views

Just from this patch:

**Casting Lunar Rush on targets that have the Moonlight debuff will reset Lunar Rush's cooldown, even if Diana is interrupted out of her dash **

*Oh, so when Irelia gets knocked out of her Q and doesn't get the reset on a minion, or Pantheon gets knocked out and doesn't get the stun, Jax doesn't get the damage, Shyvana doesn't do her damage and all of them fail to gap close THAT'S OKAY... but Diana is this special flower that needs to be protected? Why? Because she's weak right now? What happens when she's not weak? Does she keep this exception? Is it time we admit that knockback cancelling gap closers is too strong and that they need to keep their effects even it knocked back? Riot recently changed over season 4 all gap closers to no longer have any effect if cancelled and as a result melee have gotten directly weaker against teams that include Thresh, Alistar, Tristana, etc. But now Diana is some special snowflake that needs to not be punished by this? * *How about you go back and change ALL gap closers to ignore knockbacks. Knockbacks shouldn't be cancelling the damage, they merely knockback. I paid for and used my mana and cooldowns to do damage or stun or otherwise. You used your knockback to... knock me back. Better yet, how about some special rules for all gap closers akin to Vi/Zac's? Cancel a gap closer with a knockback and it goes on 50% reduced cooldown. That seems fair for all cases. *

**Idol of Durand's taunt is no longer reducible by tenacity **

*I don't even know where to begin with this one. Is it fair that iron elixer makes it so you can ignore enough of Sion's E so you can no longer be forced to take a Q stun? Is it fair that you can Lucian/Kalista away out of Sion's Q? Is it fair that you can cancel Pantheon's stun with a knockback? Is it fair that Irelia can get elixer of iron and just chain Q on to Twisted Fate? Why is Galio a special snowflake? More over, ONCE AGAIN once Galio is powerful do we remove his special snowflake rule? Or does Galio just form a hard counter against champions like Irelia just because you didn't like that merc treads let people escape his taunt? And why this change exactly? Ranged champions at the edge can just walk out before it explodes and yet you choose to target the melee champions with tenacity? (And yes, it'll be melee with tenacity and ranged without.) *

How about this, all champions now ignore melee champion's effects if Riot doesn't like it. Irelia's tenacity makes it really hard for Sion to fight her, so his E should just ignore it. Zac's escape move makes it pretty much impossible for Shyvana to land significant damage so lets just make Shyvana's autoattacks cancel Zac's escape. Yasuo's knockups ignore Irelia's tenacity and give him a hella good advantage late game so lets just make Irelia ignore them.... unless Irelia is advantaged against Yasuo then she shouldn't ignore them... unless... unlesss... error, error, erroe, erre, err3##, errrrr@@@@------errr-r

EXCEPTIONS ARE BAD, MKAY. Champions are balanced on what they have. Irelia has below average stats and no tankiness but she has tenacity. So if you ignore her tenacity she becomes weak, unless she's not balanced on her tenacity and she gets it for free? But the only reason she wouldn't be balanced on her tenacity is that if so many people ignored it that she'd HAVE to be balanced on not having it. EXCEPT THEN she gets free winrate against champions that can't ignore tenacity. See also: Champions with free healing deficiency.

17 Comments

360D3GR3SS9 votes

Except these are actually REALLY vital changes to them as champions. Both of these changes are warranted.

shppy7 votes

A) The description for Diana's says 'casting' on a target with Moonlight resets it, not 'hitting' the target. Conceptually that wording matches up with the whole 'dash-interruption doesn't negate the reset' thing, as casting comes before the dash even starts.

B) Galio's taunt not being reduced by tenacity is not any real exception, it's basically being turned into a 'taunt field', akin to the many slow-fields and soraka's silence-field, none of which are reduced by tenacity. Considering Galio's taunt already possessed the behavior of 'anyone in or entering this AoE during this time gets taunted' (just like other cc fields), it makes perfect sense that it's getting modified to constantly keep the cc applied as long as targets are within range regardless of tenacity (just like other cc fields).

hashinshin1 votes

A) The description for Diana's says 'casting' on a target with Moonlight resets it, not 'hitting' the target. Conceptually that wording matches up with the whole 'dash-interruption doesn't negate the reset' thing, as casting comes before the dash even starts.

B) Galio's taunt not being reduced by tenacity is not any real exception, it's basically being turned into a 'taunt field', akin to the many slow-fields and soraka's silence-field, none of which are reduced by tenacity. Considering Galio's taunt already possessed the behavior of 'anyone in or entering this AoE during this time gets taunted' (just like other cc fields), it makes perfect sense that it's getting modified to constantly keep the cc applied as long as targets are within range regardless of tenacity (just like other cc fields).

The tooltip for EVERY ABILITY IN THE GAME THAT'S A GAP CLOSER says "deals X damage, moves you closer."

Siachi2 votes

ACTIVE: Diana becomes the living embodiment of the vengeful moon, rushing at an enemy and dealing magic damage to it.

When used to dash to an enemy afflicted with Moonlight, Lunar Rush's cooldown is refreshed and the Moonlight debuff is consumed. All other enemies will have the Moonlight debuff removed regardless of whether they were the target of Lunar Rush.

Taken directly from the wiki (Minus some formatting stuff).

And that's about all I have to add... carry on.

Centuros3 votes

Diana STILL doesn't get the damage, so you cannot compare it to Jax in the slightest (or, rather, it compares perfectly).

SmokingPuffin2 votes

Casting Lunar Rush on targets that have the Moonlight debuff will reset Lunar Rush's cooldown, even if Diana is interrupted out of her dash Idol of Durand's taunt is no longer reducible by tenacity

This reminds me of DotA patch notes. Not sure if that's good or bad.

FiendOfOne1 votes

The difference is that their entire kits are based around these things. Their entire kit. If Diana loses her ult reset, she becomes useless and loses literally all playability until it's back. Galio's primary purpose and everything he contributes to a team is based around his ult. This isn't about them being weak or strong, it's about them being functional.

hashinshin1 votes

The difference is that their entire kits are based around these things. Their entire kit. If Diana loses her ult reset, she becomes useless and loses literally all playability until it's back. Galio's primary purpose and everything he contributes to a team is based around his ult. This isn't about them being weak or strong, it's about them being functional.

And Jax's kit works perfectly when he gets forced out of melee and his gap closer goes on CD? Both are melee, both are out of melee, both have their gap closer on CD. What's the difference?

FiendOfOne2 votes

Because Jax still has other options. He still has DODGE ALL THE THINGS, has innate tankiness, and his cooldowns are MUCH lower (leapstrike at 6 seconds vs. Lunar Rush at 15 seconds - except you can max leap strike at 10 (13 is more likely), whereas you can't max Lunar Rush until 16). Jax is also a fighter that benefits from longer engages, whereas Diana is JUMP IN MURDER RUN AWAY. It's an assassin vs. a fighter.

They're entirely different kits, playstyles, and foci. Not just 'they're melee.'

81AZ1 votes

Galio's change makes no sense to me either. It really looks like something out of Dota. If they called it a "taunt field" like the previous poster said, fine. But just going "oh tenacity doesn't work on it haha" is horrible. If Amumu becomes too weak, will they make his ult unaffected too? What about Udyr, he needs bear to close the gap, shall we make his stun not affected by tenacity also?

hashinshin1 votes

Diana has both higher health and substantially more armor than Jax. What innate tankiness from Jax?

Sightless661 votes

That's cherry picking from an argument if ever I've seen it. Maybe respond to the other things he wrote, the more important parts?

hashinshin1 votes

That's cherry picking from an argument if ever I've seen it. Maybe respond to the other things he wrote, the more important parts?

Okay, if Jax is out of range he does nothing, neither does Diana.

Jax has counter strike, Diana has a shield. Diana also has ~10 more armor, and ~100 more HP baseline.

Waht exactly is the cut off for cooldowns? If Irelia hasn't level Q it's 14 CD, should she get it reset then if it gets cancelled? What if she maxes it to 6 seconds CD, no longer cancelled? Zac's E is a 24 second CD at rank 1, should it get the knockup still if it gets cancelled? Shyvana's ult has a 100 second CD, should she maintain the damage if it gets knocked back?

What's the cut off here?

Hayaishi1 votes

I don't understand the Galio change honestly, makes no sense to allow him and ignore tenacity.

Sightless661 votes

Yasuo's knockups ignore Irelia's tenacity

No they don't. Yasuo's Q is a suspension, not a knockup. It is effectively a stun that looks like a knockup so that Yasuo can ult off of it. Nami's bubble is the same thing.

Is it fair that iron elixer makes it so you can ignore enough of Sion's E so you can no longer be forced to take a Q stun? Is it fair that you can Lucian/Kalista away out of Sion's Q? Is it fair that you can cancel Pantheon's stun with a knockback? Is it fair that Irelia can get elixer of iron and just chain Q on to Twisted Fate?

Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes.

As for these complaints you have, exceptions are fine if the champion has a unique circumstance justifying them. For Diana and Galio, given the degree to which they get countered by general mechanics, exceptions are acceptable. Hell, for Diana it isn't even really an exception. It's just a change to getting a reset on cast.

7ha7guy7771 votes

knock ups aren't reduced by tenacity. it is not listed under the crowd control types that tenacity items reduce.

Sightless661 votes

I'm aware. The point is that Yasuo and Nami do not have typical knockups on their Qs.

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