Taric is a toxic champion and his rework is terrible

Moody P··7 votes·3,387 views

Taric time and time again shows up at the forefront of every terrible support-oriented meta. Ardent, funnel, tank meta - you name it and he's right up at the top, every time, as one of the worst enablers of obnoxious hyper carries taking over the game way sooner than they're supposed.

Nothing about this character is thought out very well and the sheer gold value he brings through shields and heals combined with his frankly unfair ultimate makes it so that any meta he can be decent in is automatically a meta in which he's top tier in.

I have played Taric off and on since well before the rework, back to my beginning in season 4. I maintain good winrates on him for every season I've played him in. I can tell you with certainty that this rework is less healthy than the original kit; an ultimate like Tarics is basically the reason that damage creep needed to happen; because you lose automatically if you can't obliterate Tarics MVP(s) before the invulnerability pops. Except he has a multitude of tools to make it very difficult to do that, two of which are targeted and one of which covers a massive AOE so as to be very difficult to dodge.

It's time to admit that Taric is a problem champion. He doesn't need to be reverted but his kit needs a massive power down.

37 Comments

Warpes10 votes

did.. did you really just ACTUALLY make a taric is unhealthy thread??

[zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-brand-facepalm]

IAmTheLego9 votes

"It's time to admit that Taric is a problem champion." Says the guy who who worships ct champions (and probably humps them too in dreams) like they are gods or some shit. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

So a unique ulti like Taric's is all of a sudden unhealthy? It's a utility spell which happens to be telegraphed rather than instant and doesn't last that long and with a high cooldown (even with ultimate hunter and 45% cdr, it's still long cooldown). It is useless af if the team doesn't make use of it which in most cases on pretty much all elos...yeah, co-ordination isn't that wow unless you're a pro which you get the privilege to get a head set and talk to each other while we're stuck ping spamming or duo with only 1 person.

Taric is a type of champion specifically for long team fights, and hell, thanks to the damn damage creep, he either has to cast it early so it can be in effect (which can lose precious time of it duration) and even when built tanky can tend to melt fast.

Taric is a champion who is supposed to stick to the team at all times to protect them, that's no different than other champions like Braum and Leona. That's why Blitzcrank, Thresh and even Pyke can counter him well since they can pull him in and kill him before he can react and ulti, leaving the enemy team vulnerable.

Unless its cooldown is 30 seconds, does massive aoe damage like Neeko ulti, and also heals and shields all at the same time, then that's when "Taric is a toxic champion" becomes a valid point. Which it doesn't. Let me know when riot is stupid enough to change his ulti into this.

Moody P2 votes

"If it doesn't do damage its not toxic."

Right, glad you summed up why I ignore most of you

IAmTheLego2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-04-14T20:05:02.384+0000)

"If it doesn't do damage its not toxic."

Right, glad you summed up why I ignore most of you

Oh so this slight line and you ignore the point I make to validate it on why taric's ulti is not much of a big issue?

I said it before and I'll say it again. You're unbelievable. I read your shit and made my argument. So how about you read my shit and make your own argument?

Too much effort I should say. I'm surprised you're not perma banned from boards for sounding like an idiot. Yet again...it's probably unfair anyway.

You're my little comedy gold.

Fire Blaustoise1 votes

Oh so this slight line and you ignore the point I make to validate it on why taric's ulti is not much of a big issue?

your point can be summed up by

Unless its cooldown is 30 seconds, does massive aoe damage like Neeko ulti, and also heals and shields all at the same time, then that's when "Taric is a toxic champion" becomes a valid point. Which it doesn't.

basically if it dosnt make damage its healthy. its dumb.

IAmTheLego1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-14T22:11:08.290+0000)

your point can be summed up by

basically if it dosnt make damage its healthy. its dumb.

It's a utility spell. Designed to PROTECT allies.

What exactly is your point? You think Taric's R is toxic solely because it blocks out damage or something?

Fire Blaustoise1 votes

My point is low elo players dont understand what's strong unless it deal damage.

And no, i dont think his R is an issue... his other spells are unhealthy and too strong.

The thigh guy6 votes

Everything Taric does is highly telegraphed and has delays on it. Champion is fine.

Fire Blaustoise2 votes

maybe his kit seems fine in your elo, but when reaching a decent rank you will change your mind

The thigh guy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-04-14T22:09:20.079+0000)

maybe his kit seems fine in your elo, but when reaching a decent rank you will change your mind

Highly telegraphed. You get an hour to dodge and disengage whatever he does.

0 Hogapu1 votes

Guess i have an hour to ignore the MasterYi summoner 6 item 3124 under taric's ult.

Champion in itself sounds fair, but in reality he isn't.

The thigh guy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MTFN Azor ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-15T08:04:42.205+0000)

Guess i have an hour to ignore the MasterYi summoner 6 item 3124 under taric's ult.

Champion in itself sounds fair, but in reality he isn't.

Champion synergy does not account for a single champions power

I can say gnar is broken as fuck, because jarvan can ult on someone and then they can’t avoid the gnar stun. That doesn’t make me correct.

Twitch/cass allows cass the absolute strongest level 1-9 in the game. That’s not broken.

0 Hogapu1 votes

Yet the issue with Taric is how he synergises. I believe he is fine as a champion, but Taric is too strong when paired with other champions. And this is the issue.

We definitely should consider champion sinergy in a champion power wtf, that is how Xayah/Rakan are designed. it is ridiculous to skip it.

NemeBro1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-15T14:47:24.471+0000)

Champion synergy does not account for a single champions power

I can say gnar is broken as fuck, because jarvan can ult on someone and then they can’t avoid the gnar stun. That doesn’t make me correct.

Twitch/cass allows cass the absolute strongest level 1-9 in the game. That’s not broken.

Taric is a champion whose value comes not from himself, but from how strong his synergy with other champions is. He is a utility tank who provides little force himself, but is an extremely powerful force multiplier.

And you think that how well he synergizes wiith hypercarries and enables them to dominate games doesn't account for his power?

You should frankly never post on the boards. You don't know anything about this game.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

Taric is a champion whose value comes not from himself, but from how strong his synergy with other champions is. He is a utility tank who provides little force himself, but is an extremely powerful force multiplier.

And you think that how well he synergizes wiith hypercarries and enables them to dominate games doesn't account for his power?

You should frankly never post on the boards. You don't know anything about this game.

Way to ignore every point made dude.

So what your saying is Rakan should be gutted further, because his winrate when paired with xayah is sky high?

Nami should be nerfed because her win rate when paired with Lucien is sky high?

Alistar should be gutted because he makes kalista a playable champion?

Your entire argument falls apart as soon as it comes under any scrutiny. Maybe you shouldn’t be the one posting. XD

Frosted Tips4 votes

Surprised that someone would actually argue the rework was a failure, but still understand the original version was also not the best. I agree he needs to be changed and not reverted.

Ahri Baka4 votes

He doesn't need changes He is one of the Balanced champions in the game His Ultimate is not broken , it IS AN ULTIMATE !

Fire Blaustoise2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitsune Kawaii,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-14T17:04:43.943+0000)

He doesn't need changes He is one of the Balanced champions in the game Her Ultimate is not broken , it IS AN ULTIMATE !

Karthus ultimate isnt broken, IT IS AN ULTIMATE [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Oleandervine3 votes

This is the highest tier shitpost I've seen you do. I mean, you make some really absurd claims like 70% of time, but this one takes the cake.

Moody P1 votes

Noticing that nobody has actually argued against the OP, only insults or vaguely listing Tarics kit and then saying that its an argument . noticing that none of you actually play Taric and I do, also noticing the ranks of everyone posting here

thats OK, I guess I'll keep collecting my Taric LP for another season

Oleandervine3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-04-15T16:33:04.740+0000)

Noticing that nobody has actually argued against the OP, only insults or vaguely listing Tarics kit and then saying that its an argument . noticing that none of you actually play Taric and I do, also noticing the ranks of everyone posting here

thats OK, I guess I'll keep collecting my Taric LP for another season

Ok then, let's break this down, shall we?

Taric's heals cost a shitload of mana. More mana than he can sustain before building anything other than a Glacial Shroud. His heals are far, far, FAR from efficient, and are mainly there to allow him to spam his passive once he gets a healthy mana supply.

His shield is a shield based on the recipient's %Max HP. It starts at 8, and tops at 12. It's also one of his abilities that you max next to last. Therefore, squishy targets get smaller shields. It's not even remotely close to a Janna shield or Karma shield. It's more of an afterthought active for clutch saves and to designate a Bastion target.

His Dazzle is the meat of his kit, but relies heavily on your ally being exactly where you need them, and not fleeing so you can land your stuns to help them. If they're on top of you, not so much of an issue, but chances are people will want to kill your squishy friend first.

His R is telegraphed and delayed, and lasts a moderately short time. It is a game changer at times, but not without its shortcomings. It's entirely possible to kill Taric or his ally before the invulnerability even hits them. Considering the burst in the game, this isn't hard to do. If he does manage to land it, you have to simply back off until it wears off. Or you can CC people hit by it, since they're not immune to CC.

Taric's base HP is also fairly low for a tank, and he really needs a few items under his belt to really be durable. This can be his downfall early game, because he REALLY needs to be building mana too, not only for his mana guzzling Q, but also so he can effectively use his passive. His rework is probably one of the healthiest reworks Riot has ever done, because there were incredibly few things that had to be fixed post launch, and he's remained very stable since then. There are a lot of Achilles' heels built into his kit, and a lot of windows of opportunity where you can either drive him to blow his mana to save his allies, or bait out his ultimate. Your assessment that he's toxic and broken is not only absurd, it's indicative of someone who hasn't actually played Taric, because if you did, you'd be HIGHLY AWARE of his weaknesses and weak points. Of course, his largest weakness is being CC'd from a range. This is INCREDIBLY easy to do in this current meta, where Morgana and Zyra are top performing supports who can easily tear him to pieces since he's not really going to be building MR. This meta isn't particularly favorable to Taric outside of highly organized teams that can coordinate things and fill in the gaps in his weak moments.

Taric is not a problem, and if you disagree, please by all means show your work. You've made some boldly absurd statements without anything to actually back them up.

Moody P2 votes

I like that I said listing Tarics kit is not an argument and then you proceeded to list his kit. lol.

Fighting to outlast Tarics mana bar is not a healthy representation of gameplay; Sona is a horrible design for the same reason. Neither is "burst them or lose," which, in every meta that he shows up in and becomes either the biggest issue or the second biggest issue behind Lulu or Tahm, makes him almost automatically win teamfight. Hoping the Taric player screws up is not sufficient counterplay; not every champion can freely disengage against multiple invulnerable enemies. JFL if you actually get baited and waste your ult. Tarics E and passive are the only reasonable parts of his kit, marred by the fact that he quickly turns into one of the biggest stat balls in the game when he can mindlessly shit out healing and shielding without having to worry about missing any of it.

His only weakness is being out ranged; this is a weakness I'm acutely familiar with. It's hardly a sufficient weakness when your kit is this loaded and it's not a relevant weakness in any situation where Taric is broken.

Taric not being in a favored meta in soloQ does not mean his design is good. All poorly designed champions have dry spells.

NemeBro1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T10:46:44.146+0000)

I like that I said listing Tarics kit is not an argument and then you proceeded to list his kit. lol.

Fighting to outlast Tarics mana bar is not a healthy representation of gameplay; Sona is a horrible design for the same reason. Neither is "burst them or lose," which, in every meta that he shows up in and becomes either the biggest issue or the second biggest issue behind Lulu or Tahm, makes him almost automatically win teamfight. Hoping the Taric player screws up is not sufficient counterplay; not every champion can freely disengage against multiple invulnerable enemies. JFL if you actually get baited and waste your ult. Tarics E and passive are the only reasonable parts of his kit, marred by the fact that he quickly turns into one of the biggest stat balls in the game when he can mindlessly shit out healing and shielding without having to worry about missing any of it.

His only weakness is being out ranged; this is a weakness I'm acutely familiar with. It's hardly a sufficient weakness when your kit is this loaded and it's not a relevant weakness in any situation where Taric is broken.

Taric not being in a favored meta in soloQ does not mean his design is good. All poorly designed champions have dry spells.

BUT HE DOESN'T DO DAMAGE!

Stars Shaper1 votes

Thresh and Blitz abusing the hook hitbox since day 1 for entire seasons is fine but god forbids a Tank/Enchanter to be good at his job.

Oleandervine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T10:46:44.146+0000)

I like that I said listing Tarics kit is not an argument and then you proceeded to list his kit. lol.

Fighting to outlast Tarics mana bar is not a healthy representation of gameplay; Sona is a horrible design for the same reason. Neither is "burst them or lose," which, in every meta that he shows up in and becomes either the biggest issue or the second biggest issue behind Lulu or Tahm, makes him almost automatically win teamfight. Hoping the Taric player screws up is not sufficient counterplay; not every champion can freely disengage against multiple invulnerable enemies. JFL if you actually get baited and waste your ult. Tarics E and passive are the only reasonable parts of his kit, marred by the fact that he quickly turns into one of the biggest stat balls in the game when he can mindlessly shit out healing and shielding without having to worry about missing any of it.

His only weakness is being out ranged; this is a weakness I'm acutely familiar with. It's hardly a sufficient weakness when your kit is this loaded and it's not a relevant weakness in any situation where Taric is broken.

Taric not being in a favored meta in soloQ does not mean his design is good. All poorly designed champions have dry spells.

Lol ok.

Moody P: KIT IS BUSTED! REVERT! DON'T TALK ABOUT KIT IF YOU WANT TO FITE ME THO.

Moody P1 votes

You don't have to revert

can't even read the op lol

0 Hogapu2 votes

I believe his ultimate is the only issue. His basic spells are fine imho, but have been nerfed (in mana cost and in cooldowns) which turned him into a "ult master yi bot", or something that negates any engage better than janna does

I believe he should lose some power out of his ult. Something like a flat % damage reduction and/or flat tenacity increase to allies, with the same AoE, with compensation buffs onto his kit.

DartExplosion101 votes

[{quoted}](name=MTFN Azor ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BXxQfXGt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-14T16:56:47.337+0000)

I believe his ultimate is the only issue. His basic spells are fine imho, but have been nerfed (in mana cost and in cooldowns) which turned him into a "ult master yi bot", or something that negates any engage better than janna does

I believe he should lose some power out of his ult. Something like a flat % damage reduction and/or flat tenacity increase to allies, with the same AoE, with compensation buffs onto his kit.

could also be a good time to introduce true damage reduction

Death by Glamour2 votes

His overall kit is fine, its just his ult.

But I do love how it is always the support that gets blamed and nerfed because damage is to high.

Quáx2 votes

Right because the original Taric was soooooooooo much better.....

Fire Blaustoise1 votes

He doesn't need to be reverted but his kit needs a massive power down.

TengenToppaGnar1 votes

{quoted}

Right because the original Taric was soooooooooo much better.....

Its a toss-up. Old Taric was a shit-ton tankier ignoring the Ultimate and Passives on the rework, and could deal damage like a god thanks to the Roid his old ultimate gave him. But otherwise, was often considered a joke since he reminded everyone of the autistic kid in class. Granted a ranged, targeted STUN, pretty much guaranteed deletion since you couldn't just "Flash/Dash/Dodge" out of range/line-of-fire.

Daddy ReTaric1 votes

People whine about Taric because of funneling and Sona/Taric comp bot lane. His ultimate and how his E work make it possible in most of the case. He could get changed but honestly I don't know how.

Fire Blaustoise1 votes

yeah, most issue with funneling come from supports (taric and lulu).

Fire Blaustoise1 votes

It's time to admit that Taric is a problem champion.

Yeah.

Nothing about this character is thought out very well and the sheer gold value he brings through shields and heals combined with his frankly unfair ultimate makes it so that any meta he can be decent in is automatically a meta in which he's top tier in.

I disagree tho. I think the ultimate is what is interesting and the most fair sh*t in his kit. His shield like most shield is stupid, unfair and no interactive (still waiting for counter shield, riot think Aatrox is enough lmao). Providing shield without doing anything, this board this its healthy.

"If it doesn't do damage its not toxic/healthy."

its legit the logic of this board and reddit, good luck to make them reason.

KFCeytron1 votes

The metas you mentioned all revolve around team play. Ardent meta means buffing the carry into a hypercarry. Funnel meta means protecting the carry so they scale into it faster. Tank meta isn't as cut-and-dry, but the general purpose of a tank is to protect your team from damage by absorbing it yourself, with the expectation that you won't deal much damage yourself and you're relying on your team to do this (which is why you helped them survive). Champions that excel in these roles - like Taric - are harder to point the finger at because they rely on someone else doing the flashy things. Do they make it easier for those allies to do those flashy things? Yes, sometimes even too much easier, and power is power whether it's a resetting dash or a shield on someone with a resetting dash.

If the champions Taric helps get nerfed, that is also a power-down for Taric, and vice versa. If the combination is too powerful, should he get nerfed, or should they? I don't know.

I loved playing old Taric. He could actually accomplish things himself if he got into melee range and had enough mana and CDR to power his combo. He was also not a meme of himself.

More from Gameplay

More by Moody P