Kog'maw........ Why?

JavelinJoe··1 votes·910 views

Why does he need a 5.00 attack speed cap? This just makes him broken. In 1 second with a item 3153 and a item 3085 he deals a total of 15 hits (assuming hurricane hits 2 targets every time) and to each target deals 8% current health each hit as bonus AD damage.

(math is not 100% accurate but it should be generally close to the actual results, it is not my best subject so...)

damage each hit = current health - ((current health) 8% )

ex: { Hp is 2000.

  • first hit = 160 bonus AD damage
  • second hit = 148 bonus AD damage
  • third hit = 135 bonus AD damage
  • fourth hit = 125 bonus AD damage
  • fifth hit = 115 bonus AD damage
  • 15th hit = roughly 1430 bonus AD damage

This is before the active damage of BORK and the bonus 10 damage each hit from hurricane and your general attack damage. This is strictly from the bonuses of BORK's passive.

Time 3 seconds. In that timespan the target will receive roughly 1430 points of AD damage (before armor and other reductions and other AD stats are calculated). This means that the target will take over half their health easily by the 15th hit before additional sources of damage are added. Less than half of the champions have HP levels far greater than that, and most are also a tank or a bruiser. Refrence link

So 3 seconds with 15 hits a second (45 total) and 15 hits equals roughly 1430 bonus AD damage to each target (who for convenience all start with 2000 hp). Making total damage output be somewhere around 4290 bonus AD damage shared by the 3 targets before crits, base AD, and any other bonus AD and Armor pen items. } One more thing, Kog'maw's q reduces Armor and MR so he already deals when you don't have full Armor/MR ratings (assuming you were hit by his q first).

24 Comments

Eedat1 votes

Its really not that big of a deal. Attack moving with 5.0 attack speed is literally impossible without scripts

JavelinJoe1 votes

his kit is made to chase and attack moving targets. e for slows r for ranged slows. plus many attack speed items grant bonus movement speed

Eedat3 votes

You're saying one of the most immobile ADCs in the game is "made to chase". Wut?

JavelinJoe1 votes

immobile is meant to describe their ability to dodge and maneuver not chase primarily (still does but not focusing it). Kog can chase well just not dodge

Eedat2 votes

Kog's chase is horrible. No idea what you are talkig about. You talking about his E that is stupid easy to dodge or walk out of?

JavelinJoe1 votes

it is a massive slow

Mathbalnase2 votes

It is substantial, but in a game where 99% slows exist, and 60%+ slows are not unusual, a 52% slow is not 'massive'.

It also lasts less than one second after leaving its AoE (that is laid down by a very slow-moving skillshot).

JavelinJoe1 votes

I like your point about not being in it so you are not effected by it. And that is true, but I've come to know that slows always suck regardless of how much they slow you. Kog'maw has 2 items that both provide a slow and he scales well with. first : item 3116, but we are talking AD kog'maw here, so, second : item 3022 is much more suited for him. it is 30% slow for 1.5 seconds after each basic attack. sure it is a little off meta build, but we are not going to go full AD in this build where quantity is better than quality.

Mathbalnase1 votes

A) slows don't stack B) Koggy effectively can't even move at all while attacking at 5/s

C) neither of those items is particularly conducive to a build that will reach 5AS while still doing respectable damage Koggy needs approximately +180% AS (after accounting for his Q) to reach that cap, neither of those items provide any, and they aren't exactly big ticket damage items for him, either, especially Mallet (oooh, 35AD, such punch) If he wants to be slowing his targets, he has to give up something big in exchange

kJs1 votes

Have you seen his W active? You can't really attack move between AAs.

360D3GR3SS1 votes

The new kog maw has FAR less % hp damage if you bothered to look up the actual stats on his new W. Attack speed items will also no longer grant movement speed (for the most part).

JavelinJoe1 votes

this. read it. it clearly says that they do. also i was describing BORK's passive not his w's additional damage.

Bârd2 votes

Having bonus movement speed means nothing.

If he is at 5.0 attack speed, HE CANT MOVE WHILE ATTACKING

Mathbalnase1 votes

It's not 15 hits per second per target It's up to 5 hits per second to each of up to 3 targets

And your %currentHP bonus physical damage math is vastly overstated. You can't simply do the math as if BotRK were the only damage source, then add that to all the other sources and get an accurate number. It just doesn't work that way.

JavelinJoe1 votes

True about the second part and i did mean 5 hits in 3 seconds, maybe i worded it poorly. But that was only for the bonus if no other source was added. It is near impossible to add that up with all the variables. I was just stating raw data.

Mathbalnase1 votes

It is complicated, with 'all the variables', but without at least some approximations, the %currenthp values are so far off the mark as to be worthless.

JavelinJoe1 votes

this is actually a less amount of damage than if i included items that gave more AD as well as included base stats and armor pen since this is only the bonus from blade of the ruin king's passive. Not to mention enemy items that boost hp or add armor.

Mathbalnase1 votes

This is not 'only the bonus from BotRK's passive'. This is a vast overestimation of that bonus. Yes, actually doing the full damage math with reasonable approximations works out to more damage, but the BotRK portion of that works out to be much much smaller than that presented here.

JavelinJoe1 votes

I took the current health, multiplied it by the currently 8% from the passive, subtracted it from the current, and repeated with that result as the new current.

Mathbalnase1 votes

A) BotrK passive %currentHP damage is getting nerfed to 6% concurrent to Koggy gaining hypothetical access to 5.0 AS

B) I know how you did your math. I'm saying it's wildly inaccurate. Because it is. It is massively, deceptively, simplified in a manner that results in disproportionate overestimation of the value of BotRK's passive damage.

JavelinJoe1 votes

please explain part B because i still don't understand what you mean

Mathbalnase1 votes

8% current HP damage as an on-hit effect will never deal 160 damage to a target with max HP equal to or less than 2000. This is because the AA damage is applied first, so when the %currentHP damage is calculated, the target's currentHP is always going to be significantly less than 2000.

On subsequent hits, the discrepancy between what you calculated and what will actually happen grows ever larger.

Assume for the moment that an attacker has 160 AD, 0 crit, and no other damage modifiers, against a target with 2kHP and 0 resists. The first application of BotRK will deal about 148. The second application will deal about 122. The third application will deal about 100.

See how much faster that damage falls than what you calculated?

JavelinJoe1 votes

I see, never thought to account for it like that (don't really play many BORK champs). So it isnt that op i guess. But still the damage is their in basics from the ad stat also. But that isnt my argument

Rebonack1 votes

Bork is getting nerfed down to 6% of the target's current HP with the next patch.

Also, due to the way that Koggy's W and R scale, I strongly suspect that raw attack damage will typically supply him with more bang for his buck at the end of the day. His Ult has a 1.5 bonus AD ratio against foes below half HP and a 2.25 for foes below 25%.

While hilarious, hitting the 5.0 attack speed cap may not be the wisest course of action for Koggles.

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