Why remove Soto on PBE

Dreadlocks·Nov 2, 2015·1 votes·621 views

I already feel handicapped on my main rengar on pbe with all his core items getting reworked [nerf against him -tiamat is okay change-] this just makes things worse...

21 Comments

TrebbiNov 2, 20151 votes

What you mean there are alot more pure AD + cooldown items now.

DreadlocksNov 2, 20151 votes

I don't need more lw tiamat and youmuuz are all I needed, now lw isn't good on assassin's and youmuuz doesn't have crit. Those 3 items were core, now losing the strength of lw there is no ad item that comes close to its job to supplement except maybe black cleaver which costs 3500 now and does a worse job in terms of assassinating than lw for 2300g

Meep ManNov 2, 20151 votes

Considering Ravenous Hydra and other items Rengar builds are getting more AD and a lot of items getting critical strike as a stat, I think the kitty will be just fine.

DreadlocksNov 2, 20151 votes

Hydra cost more Gold lw got nerfed for assassin's youmuuz cost more and lost crit for 30ad

Sir ArmaMalumNov 2, 20151 votes

Look at the marksman changes and the AD items changes. The effective damage 'ceiling' of adc and by extension a lot of AD casters like Rengar is increasing a lot item-wise. Do you really want to add SotO onto that?

Not to mention SotO is generally much more niche than Mejai's simply because adc's and high damage fighter like Fiora and Yi are high priority targets on top of that and will consequently be focused a lot more in teamfights.

DreadlocksNov 2, 20151 votes

Explain? Youmuuz tiamat lw was a cheap buy for a lot of damage, the items rengar needs to buy now to get half of that effectiveness are way more expensive..

Sir ArmaMalumNov 2, 20151 votes

Rengar specifically sure, but imagine SotO on say new Caitlyn, Lucian or Graves. That's my point there. Between the other new items and their respective kit changes adc's are allowing them to operate at a much higher power capacity in a game, meaning it'll be much more reliability get to 20 stacks on SotO (Which, by the very nature of SotO, is intended to be an edge case) between effects like new phantom dancer, runaan's and others.

That's the thing about item changes, it affects the entire roster and it'll hit certain champs harder than others.

DreadlocksNov 2, 20151 votes

Yeah but, with the change to Last Whisper, assassins arn't going to have as easy of a time assassinating the ADC as before, especially given all the new updates to ADCs with their ability changes and masteries that give them health for criting.

I know it sounds like im jumping to conclusions, I'm just telling you my experience playing on the PBE with Rengar now, vs currently on live. Its a struggle.

SmitemuffinNov 2, 20151 votes

Are ADCs buying armor now???

Sir ArmaMalumNov 2, 20152 votes

Nah he means last whisper (and the new build items) only ignoring bonus armor instead of base armor, which actually affected adc's slightly.

DreadlocksNov 2, 20151 votes

This^ current LW ignores 35% total armor, now like he said, just bonus.

Sir ArmaMalumNov 2, 20151 votes

So don't build last whisper and build more flat AD? Not only that but items like Death's Dance, Mortal reminder, and Giant Slayer give AD casters more options against the rest of the team and not just the one squishy.

Look, at the end of the day what you're going for is Nuke Rengar. A strategy that involves ulting, jumping on a squishy and killing them faster than they can do literally anything. That is NOT a healthy thing to allow. So yes, it;s going to be more difficult to pull off because you should be picking them off as they're out of position and have to actually chase them a little.

DreadlocksNov 2, 20151 votes

Chase them a little, okay, so let me as an assassin with no defensive items, chase down an ADC that has full damage, just like me, but is ranged. No man this is not okay lol.

Sir ArmaMalumNov 2, 20151 votes

You're Rengar, if you have trouble chasing that's not an issue with the champ.
between Death's dance alone lack of defensive items is not an excuse. Not to mention items and effects that help you chase like chilling smite, Cutlass and others.

If they burn flash and get away? Okay fin, you get a flash out of it and you can use that to your advantage while it's on cooldown. And not to mention you're also completely skirting around the idea of one-shot Renger being healthy.

DreadlocksNov 2, 20151 votes

If i have trouble chasing its not an issue with the champ.. Bro, unless rengar has a bush he cant chase well. That being said if i ulti someone like tristana and i dont instagib, she ulti's me away, autos me to death, and if she needs to she can kite with her Leap.

Aside from that Cutless isnt a 1 shot item for rengar.

edit: The difference between your thoughts and mine are this. You want the ADC's and Assassins to fight man to man on equal terf, when I clearly see the ADC has an advantage in that scenario. Assassins are meant to counter ADCs, their struggle is finding a way to their target safely, getting the job done, and getting out if possible. Not staying there and fighting like a bruiser.

TL;DR If your argument is that Assassins should need to fight ADCs as if they were bruisers, we are never goin to see eye to eye.

TrylobyteNov 2, 20151 votes

Soto was removed because, unlike Mejai's, Soto was 100% reliant on you already destroying your enemy. The people who build Soto generally have no safety so getting any kind of value out of it is nearly impossible unless you're already so far ahead that you could let your dog play the game and it wouldn't matter. Mejai's is different since it finds use on long-range mages like Lux or Xerath or supports like Janna who can safely stack it slowly over the course of a match. Soto also has a lot more competitors in the preseason with all the new, better AD items out there. In short, it's removed because it's a noob-trap and redundant.

DreadlocksNov 2, 20151 votes

I disagree, at least on someone like Rengar, it fits exactly what he needs to do. Risk/Reward every time he ulti's You could buy this item early w.o being ahead and just make good use of the ult and thus get fed. It was a cheap snowball item that fit Rengar's play-style perfectly, and with the nerf to LW for assassins, i don't understand why this was removed too.

TrylobyteNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I disagree, at least on someone like Rengar, it fits exactly what he needs to do. Risk/Reward every time he ulti's You could buy this item early w.o being ahead and just make good use of the ult and thus get fed. It was a cheap snowball item that fit Rengar's play-style perfectly, and with the nerf to LW for assassins, i don't understand why this was removed too.

Problem with that line of thinking is sure, it's good if you can do that, but with Soto you can't die while doing it. And you're highly likely to when you're facing a competent team. So in the end you wind up losing as many if not more stacks as you gain because you jump in, assassinate someone, then instantly get blown up yourself. And sometimes without successfully assassinating the target if the enemy team is on point. This goes back to my point about Soto really only being good if you're so far ahead these concerns don't matter, or if the enemy team is just horribly bad.

DreadlocksNov 2, 20151 votes

Is this from your experience? Because I main rengar and lots of other rengar mains also get soto.

TrylobyteNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Is this from your experience? Because I main rengar and lots of other rengar mains also get soto.

It's from looking at the stats. It's been picked in... 25 games this week by Rengar. Supporting my theory, it's one of the least popular items (It is, in fact, THE least popular independent item) but has one of the highest winrates when purchased. It's something you get when you're stomping.

DreadlocksNov 2, 20151 votes

And people like Dekar and Pridestalkerr pick it up religiously.