@Riot, Can we add depth to Sona?

Heckin Support·Aug 12, 2015·21 votes·12,687 views

http://apollo-na-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/1424967873563/SonaPlez.jpg

Even though Sona has had her tiny rework, I feel as if nothing was really fixed from this. Her identity stayed the same. She's an annoying poke supports with a tiny bit of sustain, and a teamfight changing ultimate.

Sona is one of my favorite champions. I find her to be a very unique champion who can fit very well with wombo team comps, and can fit well with almost any adc. That said, I still feel like her playstyle is a bit stale. I want to feel satisfaction, which I do when I land a great ultimate, but other than that in teamfights she's basically just going qweqweqwewqeewqewwqeqwqweqwe in teamfights. Sometimes you gotta watch what you press because the right powercord can also change a teamfight but even then she's not that much of an in depth character.

Is there any plans for Sona in the future maybe? Just some way to make her feel more, unique or just less qewqweqw?

91 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirAug 12, 201522 votes

Is there any plans for Sona in the future maybe? Just some way to make her feel more, unique or just less qewqweqw?

Currently, I don't believe there are any big plans for her. As to making her feel more unique, do you have any suggestions? Honestly, I'm not even really sure what exactly she's supposed to be good at. It feels like she does a bit too much of everything at the moment to be particularly good at one thing. I guess something would have to give.

Thoughts?

Photos of GhostsAug 12, 201511 votes

AURAS. Last rework made her into a Q bot...

Pika310Aug 31, 20151 votes

Ya, I miss her auras. I don't understand why Riot removed them.

Captain AishiAug 12, 20154 votes

I know it's pointless of me to say by now, but sona used to be my main support before her rework, and i've only played her twice ever since because it destroyed the thing i loved most about playing sona

having all basic abilities on the same cooldown meant you had a sense of rythm while playing her, and her playstyle was about juggling through powerchords to get the right one on the right target during fights. And now none of this is possible anymore because of the difference in ability cooldowns

Pika310Aug 31, 20151 votes

^ This.

RedCycloneAug 12, 20153 votes

I will leave this from my other thread Sona's E gives 1% MS every rank you put in it, this IS the least satisfying skill in the game to rank up and it would make sense if this skill was an amazing one point wonder skill, but really it's pretty weak when you first put a rank in it and mainly serves as a powerchord buffer for Sona to spam her Q chord, Sona may as well have a max level of 14 because there is no noticeable different between her rank 1 and 5 of this skill

First idea is the easiest, each rank decreases her E cooldown by 1 second, at max rank it becomes a 8 second cooldown skill It will probably still be the last skill to be maxed, but gives Sona some much needed lategame buffs (her winrate after 30 minutes drops off a ton) giving her E a bit more potency lategame as well as making her ability to weave powerchords not be a waiting game for her E to come off it's extended cooldown

2nd idea is much harder but may make Sona an amazing champion without making her the "oppressive support" you come to name her as This idea focuses on what Sona mainly focuses on when putting the first rank in the skill, her Tempo powerchord Remove the AP scaling on the slow of her E powerchord but and lower the base slow to 20%, each rank of E will increase the slow's potency by 20%, where finally at rank 5 it gives her a root, giving her a bit more CC outside of her ult but also requires her to dedicate and choose what she wants to rank up first Also it remove a tiny bit of power from early game Sona as her Slow will be nerfed for people who keep the skill at rank 1 This would be amazing for Sona as currently 99% of Sona's do the exact same thing, no matter the matchup, Max Q first, put a single point in E at 4 or 8, Max W second then E last A change like this would make her choose between what she wanted to rank up first, her Q for more poking power and lane harassment, or her E for more utility and CC

Her E needs something, when I see you say "No idea what she can do for buffs" I look at every other skill in the game, then Sona's E, there is no other skill in the game what is so unchanged when going from rank 1 to rank 5

ErockandrollAug 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Currently, I don't believe there are any big plans for her. As to making her feel more unique, do you have any suggestions? Honestly, I'm not even really sure what exactly she's supposed to be good at. It feels like she does a bit too much of everything at the moment to be particularly good at one thing. I guess something would have to give.

Thoughts?

The way I see it. Their are two things she would want to be doing. Tagging her teammates with her auras, and poking enemies with her powerchord. But so far, her poke has been nerfed to oblivion, as it did too much against anyone who didn't counter her.

The thing that sona needs to do. Is be able to tag her allies while poking out the enemy. to do that, she either needs better movement speed to move in and out of the fight, or better defenses to allow her to survive as a midliner.

however, should we break down Sona's division of power. We notice that her Auras (obviously) are more useful in teamfights, while her powerchords are more useful in Skirmishes. We should figure out which of these cases Sona falls flat on, and start from there.

SelegunAug 12, 201517 votes

By nature, Sona has the worst handled power fantasy in league right now. This stems directly from how simple she is to play. When i think of playing any instrument i imagine stringing together notes to create just the feel i want from the music and Sona feels like a child plucking at dads old guitar. Not a bad thing per say, just not satisfying.

Could we adjust her to feel more like the Hunting Horn from Monster Hunter? For those that dont know how it works, every button you press generates a note. These notes can be strung together while fighting to create a tune that when finished creates a wide variety if effects based off the notes played. This could be rewarding for players that learn to play Sona by also learning to making it feel like they are learning her instrument.

ChaosThiefAug 12, 20155 votes

This could be incredibly complicated, but that could make it interesting. Simple commands could just be hitting the same button multiple times ( 3 Qs would make the current Q she has, for example) but creating different effects based on order (2 Qs > 1 W would deal damage and the aura that is given off will cause their next attack to heal, for example?)

SelegunAug 12, 20153 votes

It would, but perhaps you could ease the player into the extra notes by tieing them to her Ult? Eg: you have one note to start, 2 at level 6, 3 at 11 and 4 by 16. This could give her stead ramping power as well though the time it takes to cast might be a problem. Perhaps making different parts of the note string to different effects like note one would activate the aura, note 2 would be the heal or damage ect. This would also give counterplay as you can see and hear the notes as they start playing.

UltîmaAug 12, 201511 votes

{quoted}

This could be incredibly complicated, but that could make it interesting. Simple commands could just be hitting the same button multiple times ( 3 Qs would make the current Q she has, for example) but creating different effects based on order (2 Qs > 1 W would deal damage and the aura that is given off will cause their next attack to heal, for example?)

Actually you know which other MOBA character follows a similar playstyle? Invoker from Dota 2. He has three orbs floating around him, which can each be one of three different colours. The possible combinations allow Invoker to have 9 (10, including his ultimate) spells. Playing on this principle for Sona - playing music with Q, W, E, and combining the effect with R - would make her feel like a mystical musician that composes and crafts powerful buffs for her team. From a counterplay perspective, it would be very interesting for the music to play a role in how the enemy could read her, and prepare for what she's about to unleash before she finishes the last note.

I think there's an utterly massive amount of potential for Sona to become one of League's most interesting support, but is currently held back by an antiquated vision of her character.

@RiotRepertoire do you think this is something that could be seen in the game at some point in the future?

SelegunAug 12, 20152 votes

Never played Dota but i must admit that style of character would work well for Sona.

+1 good sir/ma'am

NeonocyteAug 12, 20152 votes

Riot, or at least Morello, has criticized Invoker's design quite heavily in the past, though with how tooltip heavy the game has become, they might not mind the idea much anymore. Beyond that, Invoker is a very different type of character with very different circumstances. For one, he is usually played as a mid core, though balance sometimes shifts him into support. As a mid core, he is also far more farm heavy than most mid laners in Dota. Additionally, he has very long cooldowns (15+ seconds on all Invoked skills) and can only use up to three active skills in a fight until he gets an Aghs, Refresher, or Rank 4 Invoke (Level 17). Even as a support, his tools are far removed from Sona's kit. As a side note, he has 10 abilities which can be created with Invoke (his "ultimate"), and three skills that are used to make his other skills and modify his stats instead of a stats level option, for a total of 14 abilities.

As for Sona, this proposal is a drastic change from her current style and unique tools, namely her heavy AOE buffs, and does not necessarily shift her more towards her thematic basis. Rhythm is a huge portion of playing an instrument, and this change would push her towards a more spammy style - the opposite of well-timed. For keyboarded instruments (as Sona's instrument seems to be based), arpeggiated chords are not necessary, since all of the notes can be played at once. Finally, Sona's QWE abilities are all entire songs at the moment, rather than individual notes.

If she were changed, I think I'd like to see more impactful buffs, better base abilities, and more focus on early game damage and ganking. The shield on W is nice, but Q and E would feel better if they gave some short on-hit buff or empowered a few auto-attacks, since they would be noticeable and usable to everyone in range.

UltîmaAug 12, 20151 votes

I was using Invoker as an example of a champion who strings abilities together in order to create spells, rather than an example of what kind of abilities Sona should have. As you've said yourself, Sona should never be casting Sun Strike or Chaos Meteor. If Sona's identity is that she is a generalist however, and her current kit lacks the versatility or impact of other supports, giving her a myriad of new options linked to her ability to "play" could perhaps push her in a better direction.

As a sidenote, I think Sona was and always will be defined by her huge utility. Her ultimate is easily the most iconic (and powerful) part of her kit. If anything, and this might be a very unpopular opinion, but I feel that Riot should do-away with Sona's poke-oriented style. She was always shoe-horned into being a damage-oriented support and all her other skills suffered for it. I'd rather see her in the same leagues as Janna or Thresh as a support that doesn't really deal damage herself, but one that can create a myriad of opportunities for her team to capitalize on.

DJ Di0Aug 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I was using Invoker as an example of a champion who strings abilities together in order to create spells, rather than an example of what kind of abilities Sona should have. As you've said yourself, Sona should never be casting Sun Strike or Chaos Meteor. If Sona's identity is that she is a generalist however, and her current kit lacks the versatility or impact of other supports, giving her a myriad of new options linked to her ability to "play" could perhaps push her in a better direction.

As a sidenote, I think Sona was and always will be defined by her huge utility. Her ultimate is easily the most iconic (and powerful) part of her kit. If anything, and this might be a very unpopular opinion, but I feel that Riot should do-away with Sona's poke-oriented style. She was always shoe-horned into being a damage-oriented support and all her other skills suffered for it. I'd rather see her in the same leagues as Janna or Thresh as a support that doesn't really deal damage herself, but one that can create a myriad of opportunities for her team to capitalize on.

Funny, I always thought her ult was holding her back.

Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing ult for teamfighting and shifting momentum in favor of your team, but I get the feeling Riot never intended for her to have an ult like it.

If you think about it, it's a little odd to have on a support that doesn't like being in the frontline; most of the time you have to flash to use it effectively.

I have no idea what it could be changed to, though.

RiotRiotRepertoirAug 13, 20158 votes

Honestly, I think an Invoker-type design isn't out of the question for League, but for Sona, it probably is, simply because she's one of the most accessible supports at the moment, and that would slide her to the complete opposite end of the spectrum if the choices were at all meaningful.

DJ Di0Aug 13, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, I think an Invoker-type design isn't out of the question for League, but for Sona, it probably is, simply because she's one of the most accessible supports at the moment, and that would slide her to the complete opposite end of the spectrum if the choices were at all meaningful.

Would it be bad if it did make her a lot harder to use mechanically? I don't really have a problem if it meant she would have more meaningful impact than she does now.

ImpetualAug 13, 201512 votes

Wait, you don't want a person playing Sona to have meaningful skill choices?

Aren't meaningful choices a positive thing in a game?

Your post sounds like an excuse for bad/bland/lazy game design.

While you may wish to keep Sona's gameplay simple, that's no excuse for why it can't be deep as well.

DJ Di0Aug 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Wait, you don't want a person playing Sona to have meaningful skill choices?

Aren't meaningful choices a good thing?

Your post sounds like an excuse for bad/bland/boring game design.

I think it's more of it'll seem like they'd be making her harder just for shit n gigs, which would turn off a lot of learning players from using Sona.

I would totally be down for an invoker-esque direction, though.

ImpetualAug 13, 20156 votes

If designed well, even simple gameplay can have a great deal of depth.

My issue with RiotRepertoir's post is that he says: " she's one of the most accessible supports at the moment, and that would slide her to the complete opposite end of the spectrum if the choices were at all meaningful."

My issue is that the choices you make with Sona, and every single other champion, should be meaningful.

It makes me really worried when a Rioter seems to think it's ok that a player's choices, regardless of what champion they play, don't need to be meaningful, as implied by RiotRepertoir, when he outright stated Sona would be innaccessable if the choices you made when you played her were meaningful.

NeonocyteAug 13, 20151 votes

You completely misunderstand RR. To rephrase that sentence: If an Invoker-like Sona were to have meaningful choices, she would be very difficult. This is different from saying that the more accessible Sona that we have should not have to make meaningful choices; RR is instead saying that the change from one meaningful style to another would cause a massive jump in difficulty.

UltîmaAug 13, 20153 votes

For lack of a better argument, I don't think this should stop you from looking at ways to make changes to Sona. Her simplicity (and lack of decision-making) seems to be one of the biggest reasons why she's in balance limbo. Her Q in particular, shares the same auto-targetting mechanic - and lack of counterplay - as Heimer's old rockets. In my mind, and Invoker style of champion that would play music in order to channel a greater spell is exactly the kind of thing Sona would need for her playstyle to incorporate the appropriate window of vulnerability for opponents to exploit while allowing her different tools to have significantly more impact. I'm not a Sona player, but I wouldn't want my character to stay in her current state if it meant that she'd always be inferior with no clear avenue to outperform other supports.

ItemsGuyAug 14, 20151 votes

I think a possible way to handle this while still keeping her relatively simple and easy-to-access (while still having meaningful decisions and including a mechanic that ties her mobility/heal/damage together), would be to have those Invoker-style "modification orbs" (which in both cases are the three basic abilities), but instead of each combination creating a completely unique ability, they could instead modify a fairly simple ability with varying effects.

Another step towards simplicity would be to cut down Invoker's three-orb combos to two-orb combos, meaning there would only be 6 combinations rather than the 10 that Invoker has in DotA2 (and I'm pretty sure he had more in classic DotA). This leaves us with a support that does more than gently drum their fingers on the keyboard, while having a niche among other caster supports (prefers large groups of allies + enemies to hit with that ult--the bigger the audience, the better) and satisfying a fantasy that her incredibly simple kit currently does not.

DecritAug 13, 20151 votes

Oh god please no.

I might be biased.but Invoker is just the worst heroes ever designed, and i dearly hope ot never sees the light in some form or shape in LoL.

I mean he is cool to play, can do cool stuff... but too much! Sona does a bit of everything and is mostly supportive - invoker does EVERYTHING wherr the limit is the own skillcap - but not because it is hard to do stuff, but because is internally hard to keep with it. This translates on a difficulty that does not scale with level of play, but that scales only with the own skills of the player, and coupled with everything else is just the worst thi g you can do in a competitive game.

Please, if you want to play something like Invoker go play Magika: it's a really good game and i swear sells better the fantasy of a spellmancer.

HaugheyPuck99Aug 12, 20153 votes

I think it might be really cool if Sona were taken in a Heimerdinger or Karma direction with her ultimate. Yes, Sona's ult is iconic and really important to her kit, but how cool would it be if she had some sort of combo like that? Might really add some depth to her kit.

R+W? Increase her aura's effective range, buff shield strength and gives everyone around her some crazy health regen or maybe some bonus armor + MR R+Q? Make her Q into what Creshendo currently is and stun all the targets it hits (maybe increase the targets her Q can hit to 3 when she does that as well, or maybe just keep the ability exactly the same as her current ult just that pressing R changes her Q into creshendo) R+E? We'd be talking Zilean levels of movespeed buffs here. Turn Sona's ult into a bit of a Sivir ult so she becomes much better at engaging, although that one might overload her kit utility-wise so it'd have to be tuned quite a bit

Thoughts? Personally I think this would really add some depth to her kit and give the balance team much more room to work with when tweaking her

Glitter SpitterAug 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Currently, I don't believe there are any big plans for her. As to making her feel more unique, do you have any suggestions? Honestly, I'm not even really sure what exactly she's supposed to be good at. It feels like she does a bit too much of everything at the moment to be particularly good at one thing. I guess something would have to give.

Thoughts?

Well to start we would have to look at why sona mains pick sona. Seeing as the only person relatively close to a sona main that i know is myself then ill put in my 2 cents. I probably have 100+ games with sona in normals, while i have maybe three in ranked. So why is this? I pick sona in normals to do damage and basically carry my adc through the laning phase with my oppressive poke. I also like her huge synergy with ardent censor. The three ish times ive picked sona has been with a heavy auto based team. I honestly would rather play bard than sona in ranked because he provides so much more of what i want as a player. I feel like sona is forced into building ap in order to be relevent, shes not like nami where you build tank and still have a great heal. I think sona needs to be more of an aoe support mage than a get my power chord and do half your adc's life if i build ap and nothing else tl help the team.

Again i like sona but she doesnt do enough to help the team she feels very selfish

DalaninAug 12, 20152 votes

Remove Shield from W but add her % missing heal back, make her E radius a bit more bigger because seriusly its pretty small and make it scale better per level, right now iirc she get only +1% per e level

MistralAug 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Currently, I don't believe there are any big plans for her. As to making her feel more unique, do you have any suggestions? Honestly, I'm not even really sure what exactly she's supposed to be good at. It feels like she does a bit too much of everything at the moment to be particularly good at one thing. I guess something would have to give.

Thoughts?

I feel like in a non-support way, late game she is great at stunning and spam q aut and killing said opponent. I have felt like she is a mesh of good points on other supports but nothing really special to her other than dance party stun. I think her biggest weakness is her speed boost - that could be completely replaced with something else. Maybe she could have a spell that granted her a ward somewhere or - or! E could be a cleanse, herself and one nearby party member could have status effects removed. I think that would be pretty cool. There should be something that would make people want to choose her over somebody else.

BârdAug 13, 20151 votes

Sona is meant to be a Musician.

How about something like this:

When Sona casts Q, W, or E, she has a little minigame (Akin to Guitar Hero), lasting 1 second.

Her Q, W, and E are replaced by High tone, Mid tone, and Low tone for the duration of the minigame. Sona is given a pattern she must enter (EWQ QWW EQW, etc.) At random.

If she hits all the notes correctly within the timespan, the cooldown is partially refunded and a bonus effect is proced.

Q: Nearby enemies have their armor/MR reduced W: Heal all nearby allies E: Cleanse all slows from nearby allies

Just a thought

RueianAug 13, 20151 votes

Personally I feel, sona's identiy is in the aura effects of her abilities, she is the bard archetype. The rework sort of ripped that identity away from her and replaced with one time, short duration buffs. I personally wouldn't mind if her personal power was lessened greatly to give her just more powerful aura abilities rather than these one shot buffs. She feels really close to a magical Udyr in all you want is CDR so you can cycle through your abilities as fast as possible and weave in the correct passive enhanced auto attack for the situation rather than playing the right song for the situation to buff your allies.

Bards have never been notably strong without their team for them to support. They are buffers/debuffers who use their skills to control and support zones for their allies. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard

Role: Bards capably confuse and confound their foes while inspiring their allies to ever-greater daring. While accomplished with both weapons and magic, the true strength of bards lies outside melee, where they can support their companions and undermine their foes without fear of interruptions to their performances.

Imagine if Sona had almost no solo power, her empowered auto attacks rather than being per spell cast, maybe we could have her be more like Dota 2 Invoker. The order in which her spells are cast matters, rather than how fast they are cast.

Her Q rather than being a nuke, is a larger AoE that like her old Q (pre rework Q) gives her allies combat stats aswell as gives all her allies and herself the one empowered Auto attack (new Q Aura). [I thought of maybe making the AoE burn enemies or interact with them somehow so it isn't 100% a support skill, but the burn would be disruptive in lane if it is like sunfire cape, and i cant think of a thematically strong debuff to go with this skill. even skill name wise, Sona doesn't feel like a debuffing kind of character]

Her W upon activating would be a small burst heal and shield to all allies inside, aswell as create a field around her that provides HP regen.

Her E should just be reverted to her old E but add the AP ratios to the MS buff [Maybe add an AS/CDR buff that doesn't effect her]

I'm not sure if i'd want to change her R, but an idea would be to make it consume power cord for augmentations (further pushing the invoker parallel)

Edit: I just realized someone else already suggested an invoker style, i think for a music theme it might fit well, though i can understand the 'accessibility' argument.

ShénzhìAug 13, 20151 votes

Unique Sona? Easy.. She continues to deliver music to LoL players as DJ Sona has. She's good as she is right now minus her auto-landing abilities but that's just Sona's skill-less gameplay being unique to her.

Expand on her music:

Work on other music themes for her other Skin. (All skins themes add a music layer to default in-game music) (Legendary and Ultimate skins completely separate music theme and layers)

Start with Arcade Sona next!

Gameplay update:

Her Power Chord [P] and Hymn of Valor [Q] needs to change to controlled damage output (but same damage value) (This ought to make 'kill stealing' less of a problem)

ZyorhistAug 13, 20151 votes

I honestly have wondered why her passive was what it was. I mean if she is supposed to play a song for people, wouldn't her passive be better tuned for chaining abilities. Make it so her passive ramped up.

passive- hymn When sona casts a spell she gains a stack of hymn. the stack lasts for x seconds. when she casts another spell the stack timer resets and adds another stack.
Each spell she casts has bonus effects based on what spell was cast before AND how many stacks of hymn she has.

The purpose of this would be to force her to ramp up to an engagement or risk not carrying the power she wants. The down side of this would also mean that if she is ramping up she also is losing mana which interprets to her being useless if she doesn't make a skillful play. It would also mean that one of her abilities is commonly on cooldown creating openings in timing. Because of this built in balance she would also be allotted a pretty fair amount of power within a passive like this.

Thematically finding an opening in a musician should be all about timing. And this would create that.

and as a bonus...she would actually be encouraged to play a song (thematically).

Pika310Aug 31, 20151 votes

How about for starters you revert her to pre-patch 4.13, but keep her ult at 100-mana for all ranks and then start working from there?

In case you haven't noticed, it's fairly unanimous that everyone hated it before, after and still hates it to this day. That and Fearless is one of the top-5 most hated employees due to both the Sona gutting and the pre-season 5 jungle gutting. He has no respect amongst the player base, just as he never respected us.

Or if you want to be stubborn and not take the best and easiest route, I have suggestions here that were gradually refined and built-on from many players: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Is5dKpVZ-so-now-that-fair-is-finally-fair

The way Sona is right now, she's just a bad copy of Nami. Who is a weak copy of Bard... All three champs feel and play identical, just to differing viability.

Rico NastyAug 12, 20158 votes

She just feels like a really shitty mage right now, I mean she has no pre-6 CC and got her utility nerfed, which was her main identity. Her passive is just weird as well, has nothing to do with the rest of her kit, and honestly her E just sucks. I would be so down for a Sona rework tbh.

Silents429Aug 12, 20154 votes

That said, I still feel like her playstyle is a bit stale. I want to feel satisfaction, which I do when I land a great ultimate, but other than that in teamfights she's basically just going qweqweqwewqeewqewwqeqwqweqwe in teamfights.

I have come to accept Sonas playstyle of press buttons and you hit something without aiming, It's not my playstyle so I stopped commenting on it, but you are literally asking for depth, on a playstyle you call stale on a champion who has neither skillshots or point and click and instead just presses buttons with auto aim.

You can't add depth to her unless you remove that aspect to her, because in the end all you are still doing is pressing your keys and watching things happen, the most you have to do for positioning is stay in the backline.

I suggest trying other supports if you want a spiced up playstyle to feel satisfaction from.

ShuffledPancakeAug 12, 20152 votes

tiny bit of sustain lel.

Heckin SupportAug 12, 20157 votes

{quoted}

tiny bit of sustain lel.

Compared to Nami Soraka , if she wanted to sustain her adc she has to rank up heal and even then its nothing compared to those 2.

ShuffledPancakeAug 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Compared to , if she wanted to sustain her adc she has to rank up heal and even thenits nothing compared to those 2.

it isnt meant to be compared to them, her poke is way over soraka let alone namis level, and she provides ms high range/width stun and a move speed buff.

A Wild AP SonaAug 12, 20151 votes

[deleted]

ShuffledPancakeAug 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Wild AP Sona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BKpArcZr,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-12T14:19:52.734+0000)

Soraka has 2 skillshots, 1 is impossible to hit if the enemy isn't a bot the other is tiny dmg and a snare you never land. If you learnt basic english you would know how to spell. Lich bane (High chance of being picked on sona) does tremendous damage especially when you can use it on any of her spells, making her passive spells have an attack. Soraka doesn't have any point and click cc xD

A Wild AP SonaAug 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Soraka has 2 skillshots, 1 is impossible to hit if the enemy isn't a bot the other is tiny dmg and a snare you never land. If you learnt basic english you would know how to spell. Lich bane (High chance of being picked on sona) does tremendous damage especially when you can use it on any of her spells, making her passive spells have an attack. Soraka doesn't have any point and click cc xD

if sorakas snare is "tiny dmg" at 70/140 then what the fuck is sonas q at 40 damage? minion tier burst? thanks for ADMITTING sona has 0 burst until sheen

sona doesnt do damage the items that sona buys do damage there is a huge fucking difference

starcall speeds up the closer you are making it very easy to hit actually if you arent bronze

and the aoe is so huge on her snare its impossible to miss the initial damage of sorakas AOE which still hits for 2x what sonas q does

it also instantly casts silence which is more cc than sonas entire kit until level 6 its also extremely easy to get the extra damage from either of sorakas spell during an all in situation where people arent paying much attention and have very predictable movements

ShuffledPancakeAug 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Wild AP Sona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BKpArcZr,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-13T02:35:51.472+0000)

if sorakas snare is "tiny dmg" at 70/140 then what the fuck is sonas q at 40 damage? minion tier burst? thanks for ADMITTING sona has 0 burst until sheen

sona doesnt do damage the items that sona buys do damage there is a huge fucking difference

starcall speeds up the closer you are making it very easy to hit actually if you arent bronze

and the aoe is so huge on her snare its impossible to miss the initial damage of sorakas AOE which still hits for 2x what sonas q does

it also instantly casts silence which is more cc than sonas entire kit until level 6 its also extremely easy to get the extra damage from either of sorakas spell during an all in situation where people arent paying much attention and have very predictable movements

So i admitted that sona has more burst on first back, lol.

A Wild AP SonaAug 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So i admitted that sona has more burst on first back, lol.

do you honestly think sona buys sheen first? that means no sightstone aka no health so she gets 2 shotted

it also means no wards so free kills for a non bronze 5 jungler

ShuffledPancakeAug 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Wild AP Sona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BKpArcZr,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-13T04:23:52.506+0000)

do you honestly think sona buys sheen first? that means no sightstone aka no health so she gets 2 shotted

it also means no wards so free kills for a non bronze 5 jungler

Sightstone provides very little hp, sheen is more mana so more heals. You can get wards until lvl 9 - enjoy.

DJ Di0Aug 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sightstone provides very little hp, sheen is more mana so more heals. You can get wards until lvl 9 - enjoy.

Well, seeing as Sona has very low hp 150 is kind of a big deal.

Also it's 800 vs 1200+(you said you're also buying wards). The only time I'd buy sheen on first back is if I got a double kill or something.

ShuffledPancakeAug 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BKpArcZr,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-13T06:03:36.864+0000)

Well, seeing as Sona has very low hp 150 is kind of a big deal.

Also it's 800 vs 1200+(you said you're also buying wards). The only time I'd buy sheen on first back is if I got a double kill or something.

Low hp - countered by sustain, though if you stay in lane till the ten minute mark (Average = only farming/harassing the enemy), It's [retty easy to sustain/stay in lane till 10 minutes as shen/sona/gp/olaf.

A Wild AP SonaAug 13, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Sightstone provides very little hp, sheen is more mana so more heals. You can get wards until lvl 9 - enjoy.

{quoted}

Low hp - countered by sustain, though if you stay in lane till the ten minute mark (Average = only farming/harassing the enemy), It's [retty easy to sustain/stay in lane till 10 minutes as shen/sona/gp/olaf.

lol your so fucking full of yourself its unreal

150hp doesnt mean anything on sona? yeah say that when all the blitz/thresh/naut will flash at the same time as their adc just to reposition to instantly kill you even though you have 90-95% health just becasue you stepped slightly out of position for 0.1 second

I rarely see kids as cocky as you in fucking d1 elo games when im on the fucking front page of the lolclient playing with thousands of people watching

your gonna even -attempt- to nitpick my build path after 4k games of sona experience in real elo with your little silver v ranking? I could eloboost as fucking garen support every game in that elo so dont pretend you know 1/10th as much about league as I do

http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/OCE/ShuffledPancake/summary your a damn silver V with a 30.3% win ratio and your gonna come and talk shit and pretend you know more than someone that has held the #1 sona spot world for the past 3 seasons on lolskill with a 2 kill per 1 death average and 7:1 KDA and was 40 lp from challenger in s4? get fucking real seriously

ShuffledPancakeAug 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Wild AP Sona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BKpArcZr,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-13T11:55:28.373+0000)

lol your so fucking full of yourself its unreal

150hp doesnt mean anything on sona? yeah say that when all the blitz/thresh/naut will flash at the same time as their adc just to reposition to instantly kill you even though you have 90-95% health just becasue you stepped slightly out of position for 0.1 second

I rarely see kids as cocky as you in fucking d1 elo games when im on the fucking front page of the lolclient playing with thousands of people watching

your gonna even -attempt- to nitpick my build path after 4k games of sona experience in real elo with your little silver v ranking? I could eloboost as fucking garen support every game in that elo so dont pretend you know 1/10th as much about league as I do

http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/OCE/ShuffledPancake/summary your a damn silver V with a 30.3% win ratio and your gonna come and talk shit and pretend you know more than someone that has held the #1 sona spot world for the past 3 seasons on lolskill with a 2 kill per 1 death average and 7:1 KDA and was 40 lp from challenger in s4? get fucking real seriously

Somehow you are a manifestation of physical abuse,mental abuse, highest tier of fuckwit and overly self assertive. You have to go into personal arguments to even get any sort of point across because you can't flat out beat someone tiers below you. The 150 hp you miss out on isnt the blame for YOU miss playing/stepping out of position, if you miss play that 150 hp wont save you. Especially from 2 flashes and a pull, WHICH YOU CAN DODGE WITH FLASH. * I rarely see kids as cocky as you in fucking d1 elo games* YOU are a prime example of the cocky fuckbois that you talk about, you ever seen a stream in high elo when the other players dont know they are being watched? they fucking blast each other and blame each other.

A Wild AP SonaAug 14, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Somehow you are a manifestation of physical abuse,mental abuse, highest tier of fuckwit and overly self assertive. You have to go into personal arguments to even get any sort of point across because you can't flat out beat someone tiers below you. The 150 hp you miss out on isnt the blame for YOU miss playing/stepping out of position, if you miss play that 150 hp wont save you. Especially from 2 flashes and a pull, WHICH YOU CAN DODGE WITH FLASH. * I rarely see kids as cocky as you in fucking d1 elo games* YOU are a prime example of the cocky fuckbois that you talk about, you ever seen a stream in high elo when the other players dont know they are being watched? they fucking blast each other and blame each other.

I cant "beat" you because you arent being realistic and your mind is detached from reality to the point you believe 70 is a lower number than 40 just because you dislike sona and choose to ignore objective facts IE: math

if you burned flash 2 minutes earlier to get a kill you definitely have flash to escape when the enemy adc/support flash on top of you or try to turret dive

150 hp is fucking huge on sona and the only hp item you get on ap sona and its usually the difference between you barely escaping if they cc you

sightstone is also infinitely more important than a sheen becasue you cant play aggro without vision if you even try that against a real jungler you will be sorry

trying to poke for 10 seconds just because you happen to see him near top lane doesnt count im talking when hes mia also if you dont rush sightstone you lose 2-300g by wasting it on wards which could have been spent getting you an earlier sheen

A Wild AP SonaAug 14, 20153 votes

{quoted}

but wait, isnt it 40 x 2? q hits twice.

if you hit both people but so can theirs? 140 is still higher than 80 if you want to talk about extremes how a bout we talk about an ideal soraka hit? lets say sona hits 80 and soraka hits 210 and 280?

except you seem to forget after mr you only do about 33-35 damage and the adc heals from that easily with 3-4 hits with a doran blade/relic shield heals its a joke even trying to poke a naut/leona before 3 or 5 because they go into lane with a fucking cookie jar so the little damage you do definitely wont stick

your poke will never do enough to accumulate until level 3 but usually level 5 is when sona finally starts to hurt

and if we are talking about shit h itting twice so can namis bubble/either of sorakas skill

sona isnt the only person with an ability that can hit more than one target...