Reason why Zed is a Healthy Assassin compared to Talon/Leblanc etc.

Guy Fox Teemo··4 votes·1,560 views

Zed CONS

  • He takes time to kill you allowing you to react to what he does, not like Talon who can kill in less then a second wtih almost no retaliation. -Gated by rather long CD on his ult, which is preety and almost the only he ever gets a kill on his own. As he's extremlly reliant on it to kill someone. where as other assasins like Talon/Leblanc/Akali, ults are significantly lower cds though slightly weaker. -Can not continously stay in a fight, when he ults he's done for the rest of it, might as well not be there after he goes in and finishes his combo. -Zhonya's make it almost IMPOSSIBLE to kill anyone who has it, QSS almost does that but still can kill someone if they do have it. -Very Squishy -Most difficult out of all the assassins and he's not point in click. -Reliant on landing his skills, since his main damage is from his Q, which is a skill shot. -No CC, except his E which must be combo with his W, which the slow isn't very good anyways as its only 1.5seconds.

Zeds PROS -Rather safe and good laning phase -Decent split pushing, although the recent changes to his attack speed, lowered the power if it by decent amount -Good wave clear, but sacrifices his entire combo (Excluding his ult) to do so. -Relatively safe tower diving due to his ult depending on where he cast it. -Good poke, only if the enemy doesn't stand behind minons. Which its reduced by 60% if they do. -Good Gap Closer -Good mobility


Talon CONS -Doesn't have a very good laning phase. -No escape unless he uses his ult, which is on a short cooldown compared to most other ults (55 seconds rank maxed) Though usually around 44 late game since talon tends to build a bit of CD. -Must fully commit to get a kill -No reliable escape in a teamfight as he uses his ult almost 100% of the time when he goes in. -Gated by MANA

Talon PROS -Can instantly kill in 1 second, giving the other person almost no retaliation if they dont see him ult since he can go invisible. -Easily escape from almost any situation, granted he has ult, which most of the time he does since its a relatively low CD. -Good wave clear due to his W. -Very good gapcloser on -Not very difficult to learn, as he tends to be point in click, since he has no real skill shot (His W doesn't really count). -Can do huge AOE damage to entire team due to his ult if used correctly. -Decent CC, with his W, as it procs twice for 2 seconds if it comes back on the person (Almost 100% of the time it does), also has a 99% slow though almost doesn't matter since its only .25 seconds. May as well be an extremly short stun. -Good split pushing due to his Q working on towers. -Has a huge AOE damage on a team due to his R. (Can potentially hit an entire team twice with it, in certain situations) -His Q can reset your AA's -Has a bleed, which is awesome for those times when people escape with 50 health ;-;. -1 shots someone with just his Q if he crits with infinity cause yolo ;)

Leblanc CONS -Falls off late game -Must almost 100% of the time win lane to do anything for the rest of the game, though its not very hard to win lane with leblanc. -SUPER squishy -No sustained damage NOTE: I don't play leblanc that often so the CONS may be lacking a few -A bit difficult to use her combo, with R in correct order

Leblanc PROS -Massive lanebully -Almost 100% of the time wins lane, due to her being very good at bullying -Instantaneous burst -HUGGGGGE mobility -Has 4 escapes as her W, can go back and fourth between use. And she can ULT for another W, on a short CD for an ult. -Good lock downs if she lands her E

See now compare Zed to Talon and Leblanc. The point of an Assassin is to get in and out of kill. But people don't really like the concept of having ZERO retaliation against them like Talon and Leblanc. Those both provide the annoying of being able to CONSTANTLY kill you every time they see you as they aren't as gated by there ults as Zed is. Though both use mana, they both are basically point and click assassins, where as Zed must have very good positioning of his Shadows. Though Zed does have a very good escape, both talon and leblanc due to. As Leblanc can jsut W which she can go back and fourth with to juke people. Talon can just ult and get out, though his is escapes are a bit more limited. Both Zed and Talon have good wave clear and split pushing, both leblanc and Zed can be very good at lane bullying, though leblanc can do it much more in a shorter amount of time then Zed. Zed is mostly just a Q every 8 seconds, which can easily be ignored if stood behind minons reducing it by 60%. Leblanc can just q w you and your probably at half health. Talon sometimes, can W you for poke, though its much shorter range versus Leblanc and Zed.

So don't keep giving me that bull that Zed isn't a healthy assassin, theres others that have just as good of strengths that he has, though this is only 2 examples as i didn't think everyone would read ALL of the examples. Talon and Leblanc in terms of being a Assassin are MUCH more unhealthy compared to Talon due to them giving you almost no retaliation. Thats why Zed is a healthy Assassin and is why Riot won't nerf him very much if at all. As he has his strengths and weekness's and none of them are to oppressive or annoying if compared to others such as Talon and Leblanc.

7 Comments

DisasterSola2 votes

I think OP is confusing zed with champions who have actual drawbacks... Zed is like jayce. Once he gets ahead, even slightly, he snowballs out of control.

Meep Man2 votes

People deny what goes against themselves. This is all true. Zed isn't overpowered, its just mana regeneration could still use some changes so resourceless champions in general can't be so good. Notice how suddenly Yasuo, Zed, and Rek'sai are really powerful once mana regeneration was gutted.

Also, penetration needs to be changed since Zed relies on killing someone all in one burst and the current defensive stats in the game are rather weak.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

Notice how suddenly Yasuo, Zed, and Rek'sai are really powerful once mana regeneration was gutted.

everyone got nerfed so zed is op every time someone goes op its because something changed and they benefit from it while other lose

guess what is the most used argument in threads about zed being op ? every thread says that zed can push them under their turret and force them to either lose all mana on minions and die to zed once they are dried out, or lose most of cs and get rekt anyway because zed will get items and will win anyway the only problem that makes zed op is that no mage can lane vs him without getting pushed under a turret and starwed out of mana or gold

and the next thing is that mana nerfs were required because the entire concept of this resource got destroyed by infinite mana, and zed got ballanced to fight mages with infinite mana

thats why zed IS op, and he didnt even needed to gain one point of ad to archieve this status (and this isnt something new to this game, we already had tons of such uprisings)

Also, penetration needs to be changed since Zed relies on killing someone all in one burst and the current defensive stats in the game are rather weak.

i agree with this , riot screwed the defense vs offense ballance all the way its either you get lw and no armor stops you, or you dont get lw and even a handfull of armor destroys you

Sooko2 votes

{quoted}

Zed CONS

  • He takes time to kill you allowing you to react to what he does, not like Talon who can kill in less then a second wtih almost no retaliation. -Gated by rather long CD on his ult, which is preety and almost the only he ever gets a kill on his own. As he's extremlly reliant on it to kill someone. where as other assasins like Talon/Leblanc/Akali, ults are significantly lower cds though slightly weaker. -Can not continously stay in a fight, when he ults he's done for the rest of it, might as well not be there after he goes in and finishes his combo. -Zhonya's make it almost IMPOSSIBLE to kill anyone who has it, QSS almost does that but still can kill someone if they do have it. -Very Squishy -Most difficult out of all the assassins and he's not point in click. -Reliant on landing his skills, since his main damage is from his Q, which is a skill shot. -No CC, except his E which must be combo with his W, which the slow isn't very good anyways as its only 1.5seconds.

Zed can kill a tank relatively easy late game, especially since they usually have no Zhonya's or QSS or GA, and a Zed can 100-0 many squishies in no time Garen's ult is a lot worse than Zed and it has a longer cooldown, and plenty of mana-gated champions have longer CDS as well (Veigar, Viktor) He has endless poke, its not fighting, but kiting still counts as dmg dealt Zhonya's isn't the end of the world, I mean, Zed can still poke his enemies down and drop a shadow in advance to prepare to make a play while they stay untargetable Most assassins are squishy. Sure there is an occasional Pantheon or a Jax, but they aren't even primarily assassins Okay... Difficulty isn't a con to his kit, because its one of those weaknesses a player can never exploit during a game once his enemy gets used to Zed Skill-shots aren't exactly synonyms to healthy gameplays (looking at you Nida/Blitz). Plus the Q moves deceptively quickly Yeah, that's a true con of his kit, although many other assassins lack any CC at all

Zeds PROS -Rather safe and good laning phase -Decent split pushing, although the recent changes to his attack speed, lowered the power if it by decent amount -Good wave clear, but sacrifices his entire combo (Excluding his ult) to do so. -Relatively safe tower diving due to his ult depending on where he cast it. -Good poke, only if the enemy doesn't stand behind minons. Which its reduced by 60% if they do. -Good Gap Closer -Good mobility

I can give more pros: Q's CD lets the energy regenerate completely before it is ready to cast again Forces an enemy to rush a very expensive item, and forces them to get blue to keep up with your farm without going OOM Best energy regen mechanics Can dodge a lot of skills just with his ultimate Very low risk, even if he fails to get a kill, during his assassinations Try safe towerdiving at least, I mean, he can do a lot just by recasting his R Completely dodged the mana regen nerfs that gutted most of his matchups in mid lane Free stats from W so he can rush a BotrK The best type of gapcloser in the game so far (Blink)

Talon CONS -Doesn't have a very good laning phase. -No escape unless he uses his ult, which is on a short cooldown compared to most other ults (55 seconds rank maxed) Though usually around 44 late game since talon tends to build a bit of CD. -Must fully commit to get a kill -No reliable escape in a teamfight as he uses his ult almost 100% of the time when he goes in. -Gated by MANA

Squishy? No hard CC or untargetability to deal with Katarinas anymore Literally a one-way gapcloser that then leaves him out of position Only has slows in his kit (If its a con for Zed...) Has to actually get in range to poke his foes, risking him to get counterattacked Melee and really melee, not Zed's "melee" Is a mana-gated AD caster, meaning he doesn't benefit from many items to fix his mana problems, unless he goes for a tear, which is usually a bad choice Piiiinks

Talon PROS -Can instantly kill in 1 second, giving the other person almost no retaliation if they dont see him ult since he can go invisible. -Easily escape from almost any situation, granted he has ult, which most of the time he does since its a relatively low CD. -Good wave clear due to his W. -Very good gapcloser on -Not very difficult to learn, as he tends to be point in click, since he has no real skill shot (His W doesn't really count). -Can do huge AOE damage to entire team due to his ult if used correctly. -Decent CC, with his W, as it procs twice for 2 seconds if it comes back on the person (Almost 100% of the time it does), also has a 99% slow though almost doesn't matter since its only .25 seconds. May as well be an extremly short stun. -Good split pushing due to his Q working on towers. -Has a huge AOE damage on a team due to his R. (Can potentially hit an entire team twice with it, in certain situations) -His Q can reset your AA's -Has a bleed, which is awesome for those times when people escape with 50 health ;-;. -1 shots someone with just his Q if he crits with infinity cause yolo ;)

Just like Zed here Stealth and MS boost on an ulti cooldown vs Blink with a basic ability cooldown, blink wins Spends mana to actually waveclear, unlike Zed Just like Zed He does not excell at anything in particular, compared to other mid lane assassins, he feels old-school as an assassin back when they weren't as overloaded as today, and yes, that is what makes him more difficult to learn than he seems, but skill is not a pro or a con anyway If he uses his ult correctly enough to damage a whole team he will die just afterwards because he is in the middle of them They are still just slows, on a no escape champion, why are they pros on Talon and cons on Zed, asides from being more intense or him having two, its still a slow 'Decent' splitpushing compared to Zed Again? Yeah, its pretty nice that skill Not really a good DoT most of the times That's something I didn't actually know, but good for Talon, I guess, although I hardly see any building IE

Point is: Zed is more viable than Talon any day

Talamare1 votes

Just saying Talon has one of the lowest damage combo's in the game

It's quite doubtful he can 100 > 0 unless he is way ahead

Q + W + R = 900 + 400% Bonus AD

Even Wukong ultimate BY ITSELF does 800 + 440% Total AD

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

zed isnt healthy (i need to repeat this over and over)

he is the healthiest assasin out of all assasins we have but that doesnt mean he is actualy healthy

Alderon WolfBane1 votes

You do know that Talon & Leblanc have been nerf enough to have actual counter-play without having to buy (expensive) item's first, But for Zed you need to dump lot's of gold to even have a chance to counter-play him and me as a jungle main i often find myself needing to camp zed a lot so my mid laner has even a chance vs him during mid game.

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