So what was the point of Nerfing towers?

Guy Fox Teemo··241 votes·6,006 views

Like who on the balance team, actually thought? "Maybe we should nerf towers the same patch that we buff the hell out of adcs...." Like what kinda of logic is that?, all towers should get back their 200 armor and mr, nexus towers should have 300 armor and 300 mr, and 8000 health. That shit should protect you, not just be a nusance, that takes 2 shots to take down.

This isn't just a rant, I'm literally shocked at the fact, that your balance team thought this was a good idea, what kind of data that you analyze told you this was good for the game? Balance team members are suppose to be like Diamond+, how they came to this conclusion, I have no idea.

88 Comments

t0ad557 votes

They are trying to make the game into a phone app that you can play while taking a shit, then finish up with their new social media stuff.

Chespin201312 votes

But in the future will we be able to pay to be challonjour?

t0ad59 votes

{quoted}

But in the future will we be able to pay to be challonjour?

Anyone can do that now. All you have to do is have nothing else in your life, and play an infinite number of games; easy.

theTyger1 votes

{quoted}

Anyone can do that now. All you have to do is have nothing else in your life, and play an infinite number of games; easy.

This is extremely untrue. There are actual measurable difference in skill as you move up through the ranks. So if you don't play at the challenger level, it doesn't matter how many games you play, you won't reach challenger.

GetBoomedOn1 votes

{quoted}

This is extremely untrue. There are actual measurable difference in skill as you move up through the ranks. So if you don't play at the challenger level, it doesn't matter how many games you play, you won't reach challenger.

But you can reach diamond that way. There is no proof btw that you can't.

theTyger1 votes

There's also no proof that you can.

By the way, there's no proof that there isn't an obscenely large, invisible spaghetti monster constantly flying through the sky. This does not imply that there is, in fact, an obscenely large, invisible spaghetti monster constantly flying through the sky.

KatCraft1 votes

There is a direct correlation between experience and games played and over all rank / skill level. When you watch challenger players they didn't get there with god born talent, they all play an obscene amount of games.

theTyger1 votes

True. In general, the more you play, the more you learn, the better you get. But it's not a linear progression and not everyone has the same potential.

Sohleks3 votes

{quoted}

They are trying to make the game into a phone app that you can play while taking a shit, then finish up with their new social media stuff.

Sad but true partially.

I heard they want to shorten games for LCS so they can run best of 3 more. Like really shorten games.

Fk that

And they're gonna simplify side wave management, hampering strategically starving your opponents of gold by freezing waves so the game can go faster and be just be her der siege and kill, here's all your free vision go fight that champ. Granted, turns out vision is overrall reduced actually so that's not an issue.

I've been incredibly dedicated to this game for years and I've actually never been worried about the direction of the game but basically every recent change this preseason has me ... ughh... doubtful more than ever and if this game loses its depth, becomes a team deathmatch featuring paper "tower sieges" and is decided by the first teamfight and sealed on the second I'm gonna start phasing this game out and check out others (as I might as well, about time anyways)

Skins and champion team does amazing work lately IMO but these system changes are disturbing

t0ad53 votes

{quoted}

Sad but true partially.

I heard they want to shorten games for LCS so they can run best of 3 more. Like really shorten games.

Fk that

And they're gonna simplify side wave management, hampering strategically starving your opponents of gold by freezing waves so the game can go faster and be just be her der siege and kill, here's all your free vision go fight that champ. Granted, turns out vision is overrall reduced actually so that's not an issue.

I've been incredibly dedicated to this game for years and I've actually never been worried about the direction of the game but basically every recent change this preseason has me ... ughh... doubtful more than ever and if this game loses its depth, becomes a team deathmatch featuring paper "tower sieges" and is decided by the first teamfight and sealed on the second I'm gonna start phasing this game out and check out others (as I might as well, about time anyways)

Skins and champion team does amazing work lately IMO but these system changes are disturbing

They lost me when they took Morde away, and now with current direction and speculated future (screwing up what should be soloQ only, and winion changes that are in the pike). Also, how is it that 4vs5 games still start, and we have to waste at least 20 minutes of our time after how may years guys?

ahferroin71 votes

The reduced vision actually helps speed up the game, it makes it a lot harder to play safe.

StoryDuck28 votes

Didn't Riot buff towers? They grant more gold when destroyed now.

http://www.unixstickers.com/image/cache/data/stickers/meme/troll/Troll-face.sh-600x600.png

Lugg19 votes

Yeah, I just love how I lose my tower on my first back now.

ZzEslIolZQ7 votes

The real reason is they want to inject bo2s into LCS while also adding in all the meaningless garbage fluff so they can advertise league as a sport. The real real reason is ghostcrawler is not 100% proven to be a candy crush kid, his entire understanding of game design is how dumb can i make everything, just how much dumber can i go.

Kaisha6 votes

Anyone who lived through the WoW exodus can attest to that. Lets make talents more diverse by giving you less choices... /facepalm

chide da jungler6 votes

to speed up game time and punish ppl for teleporting to bot lane.

last season you coudl teleport from top to bottom, kill 2 ppl and be back with maybe 30% of your tower health being lost. it was stupid

Yrzen19 votes

If anything the weaker turrets encourage everyone to take teleport since split pushing is now much stronger and teleporting to handle said split pushing is mandatory unless you babysit the minion status of every single lane at all times, keeping every last one of them pushed because towers can't handle them themselves.

howstheweather136 votes

I would rather be looking into solutions than adding to the problem making things more complicated than they need to be.

Taking towers need to be a team based objective just like baron adding to strategic diversity. Another thing is towers can't even kill minions effectively lol they need to do damage based on proximity and should prioritize champions.

Taarki3 votes

They should not prioritize champions for just being in range. The current priority order is fine. What they should do is lower damage slightly, and maybe double or triple the attack speed. That way when champions dive, they don't get a free 2 seconds without taking turret shots, since the turret would attack them faster because of less AS delay.

KatCraft6 votes

Complain all you like but League games take way too long as it is, far longer than most if not all competitive games out there. Towers are apart of the issue.

People are actually complaining that games now are getting decided before 20 minutes. Lmao 20 minutes. Try playing other normal games were matches get completed in less than 10.

It's also why League has such an enormous reputation for having a toxic community. Because each time you hit the que button you are dedicating 30-40 minutes of your life to a single match. if your team is bad this is going to be more frustrating than it would be in other games.

Extvia3 votes

Why is this guy even getting downvoted? He's right. When people have to sit through a long game with a bad team, they get all sorts of toxic and it becomes no fun for anyone, if your team can't stomp or atleast make it a good competitive match, they don't deserve to fucking turtle for 40-50 minutes just to be annoying and not get anywhere. [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

KatCraft1 votes

I generally get downvotes because I go against the circlejerk waves that control the boards nowadays.

Extvia2 votes

Yeah, same here. Vote system may as well get disabled, too many bronzies and idiots abusin' it.

Partholonian3 votes

{quoted}

Complain all you like but League games take way too long as it is, far longer than most if not all competitive games out there. Towers are apart of the issue.

If you want super fast games there are lots of them out there (as you point out). League doesn't need to become another one. Not everyone thinks 40 min is too long.

There's no absolute right answer to what is the right length of a game (although I think few would play a game that regularly had hour+ matches). Riot should think very carefully before intentionally changing the length of League games.

However, I don't think that they did intentionally change the length; I think this is just preseason craziness and if it turns out that most games are going much faster now, they will adjust something to put them back at the intended length (most games 30-45 min, except for really one-sided stomps).

KatCraft1 votes

Honestly the game length is just something you grow acustomed to over a long period of playing the game but that doesnt change the fact league games are obscenely long.

Its one of the walls that put off new players. Just because you yourself are used to the length doesnt mean its actually a healthy element.

The community in general dont like change, look at the outcry there was for dynamic duo.

Heres a fact, time put in is an investment, and league asks for a lot of it. Its not an outragious claim that a lot of the toxicity in this game does stem from the fact a single game takes a large bite into the free time a person has in a day.

TheDevice1 votes

{quoted}

Complain all you like but League games take way too long as it is, far longer than most if not all competitive games out there. Towers are apart of the issue.

People are actually complaining that games now are getting decided before 20 minutes. Lmao 20 minutes. Try playing other normal games were matches get completed in less than 10.

It's also why League has such an enormous reputation for having a toxic community. Because each time you hit the que button you are dedicating 30-40 minutes of your life to a single match. if your team is bad this is going to be more frustrating than it would be in other games.

Then you're just admitting its a game of luck. Bad team = loss. No matter how well you play as an individual, you have even less wiggle room now to farm up and try to come back. Well I hope all the plats enjoy their luck.

KatCraft1 votes

Team games are always about luck. That hasnt and never will change. But your statement "less wiggle room and chance to farm back" suggests that luck wasnt a deciding factor in you losing.

In fact late game team fights are more luck orientated than early game lane control and snowballing.

And League being a game of luck is also a large negative to game length. When you play a 50 minute game and lose because somebody else threw, that is unbelievably frustrating.

Son Olivia Hye1 votes

{quoted}

Complain all you like but League games take way too long as it is, far longer than most if not all competitive games out there. Towers are apart of the issue.

People are actually complaining that games now are getting decided before 20 minutes. Lmao 20 minutes. Try playing other normal games were matches get completed in less than 10.

It's also why League has such an enormous reputation for having a toxic community. Because each time you hit the que button you are dedicating 30-40 minutes of your life to a single match. if your team is bad this is going to be more frustrating than it would be in other games.

Reading this made me tilt so hard

KatCraft1 votes

I'm not sure what to make of that. But if it makes you feel better I'll take any excess downvotes you have off your hands, I'm making a collection.

Fowus5 votes

tbh they should've kept the slow on towers too

Hyrum Graff18 votes

{quoted}

tbh they should've kept the slow on towers too

This punishes immobile champions much more than mobile ones.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Maybe if they made it a suppress . . .

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wFM3eI11,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-11-16T06:28:09.094+0000)

Maybe if they made it a suppress . . .

That would be ridiculous.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Not like they're afraid to do things like that already, ba-zing.

theTyger1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wFM3eI11,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-11-16T06:28:09.094+0000)

Maybe if they made it a suppress . . .

Haha :P

Dengeden5 votes

Because they were weak as shite anyway. Might as well finish them off so they don't suffer and see what happens to the game. :]

CreationFlaw4 votes

I think the worst part is they haven't even tested it on the pbe, just automatically don't do it.

The Derpenstein4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soulbound X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wFM3eI11,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-15T02:00:19.798+0000)

Like who on the balance team, actually thought? "Maybe we should nerf towers the same patch that we buff the hell out of adcs...." Like what kinda of logic is that?, all towers should get back their 200 armor and mr, nexus towers should have 300 armor and 300 mr, and 8000 health. That shit should protect you, not just be a nusance, that takes 2 shots to take down.

This isn't just a rant, I'm literally shocked at the fact, that your balance team thought this was a good idea, what kind of data that you analyze told you this was good for the game? Balance team members are suppose to be like Diamond+, how they came to this conclusion, I have no idea.

You having trouble in lane? Well then don't rely on your tower to help. Them level 2-3 tower dives are real son. Towers are now only there to slow down a push by .79 seconds. ha

TerminatusOmega3 votes

where is the ritos responses?

Jean Genie3 votes

They don't reply to player concern threads like these for fear of being flamed.

theveryedge3 votes

[deleted]

t3hcollective5 votes

{quoted}

I think it's about changing the game dynamics for pro-play. League of Legends was a game of familiarity, meaning if you were very familiar with your champ and your team, you would make very few mistakes and win the game. Teams that have been playing for years (SKT T1) already have an advantage against up and coming pro teams. People are realizing League of Legends can be MEMORIZED and that should disqualify it from any professional play, UNLESS the game is significantly altered the start of every season. The league is no longer for the fans of gaming, it is for the fanboys of gamers. Without our support it will flop, it is the law of attraction.

So it should be significantly altered at the start of each season like every other sport in existence, amirite?

theveryedge4 votes

[deleted]

ahferroin71 votes

I've heard that the pro's aren't too happy about many of the changes either...

OperationDEEZ13 votes

Win more.

Spoofghoul3 votes

HOW ABOUT UPGRADING TOWERS WITH ITEMS

Upgradable turrets would give players the option in how they like their towers to work. Want your towers more durable? No problem buy them some armor. Want them to have more Damage no problem get them a weapons upgrade, or how about some more range? Sick of seeing your tower being whittled down by constant shoving and want to buy them some health regen now you can. Tired of your team not using you splipush prowess to pressure objectives how about you upgrade a line of turrets to give minions a temporary buff!

Have players be able to upgrade their turrets in the shop by spending gold. Via a tab in the shop players can select turrets, from there players can select which line of turrets to upgrade, outer, inner, inhibitor and nexus turrets. Upgrades would cost an appropriate amount of gold. Upgrades can be a items for example;

Defensive Items, like giving turrets a selection of items players can buy for them, this could be aura items like aegis, minion buff items like banner where it would buff a minion whom passes by. Other things could be stuff like a shield generator. Or maybe a thornmail or whatever these items may be, these items would ofcoarse have buildpaths, items bought apply to all turrets in that specific line, example; you buy health regen item for all outer turrets, or increased vision range.

Offensive upgrades Like buffing its range or damage, but also altering its attack behavior and type of atacks, think about stuff like splash damage or turning its damage into magic damage. But also increasing the overheat capacity or the way it attacks, lasers, or slow firing large heavy hitting aoe blasts, or fast attacks, or allowing it to hit more than one target (splitting it's attacks and damage)

Both types of upgrades come in the form of items so turrets can only have 6 upgrades each. The balance in this turretbuff is that you either spend gold on turret upgrading or buying items for your champion. But contrary to champions, when turrets are dead they wont just respawn on the fountain :)

Mike Kachowski2 votes

A big reason for why towers are weak, that a lot of people seem to miss, is the early game passive the towers have. The one that reduces damage taken by 30. Back when towers had armor this was pretty big, because the champs didn't deal that much damage to them to begin with (due to the armor). When they changed the towers to have more health instead, they should have increased the damage reduction on the early game passive.

High53 votes

I have a feeling this will be adjusted next patch. The health increase wasn't quite enough.

Lhostalis2 votes

Hmmm... How can we make the games go faster?? Oh! I've got it! Make the towers out of Jell-O!!

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

Actually, I'm starting to like these weaker towers. I tend to play these weaker, non-roaming laners like Viktor, Veiger, Cassiopeia, Anivia..etc. They don't have strong AA attacks, so I always felt it was a disadvantage that strong roamers like Kat, Yas, Zed, Talon, Fizz, Akali..etc get to roam and I would still not be able to destroy the first tower. It gave them so much opportunity to actually get fed through roams while my team pings and complains why i didn't follow them. Now I feel like I can actually punish them for this. That's good!

The bad thing is, it also affects me if I have a unfavorable trade and have to go heal. Certain AD mid laners can really hammer the lane so hard. I can think of Yas, Talon, Zed, and Akali all doing this well.

More from Gameplay

More by Guy Fox Teemo