I don't give a shit if the dude is 0 and 5, DON'T RAGE AT HIM

Guy Fox Teemo··337 votes·8,447 views

Don't fucking rage in chat and make everything worse. You yelling at him that "You fucking suck" "GG you lost us this game" "Fucking Noob" "Why are you feeding" "REport this guy for feeding"

Isn't going to god dam help win you that freaking game, all you do is make that player play worse, make your self play worse and lower everyone elses moral about the game. Just shut the hell up and play.

I guarantee you'll win a shit ton more if you just shush and play.

149 Comments

1 800 MID LANE47 votes

I've went 0-8-0 in lane before. (LeBlanc is rough)

Finished a Banshee's and got a quad. Suddenly I'm a relevant threat again.

Attitude wins/loses more games than anything - especially in lower elos where people don't abuse their own lead optimally.

Heckin Support24 votes

If I mentioned something like that to a laner in my games it would probably go something like this: Soraka :Maybe you should get a banshee or just any kind of early mr to shut down her early game burst Ahri :Are you stupid? Ahri is supposed to rush a morello Soraka : Well I mean, you don't have to build the same way everygame... Ahri :You obviously don't know what you're talking about you shit for brains Soraka :K...

ayNigerianPrince18 votes

I mean item 3174 or item 3001 are much better options to rush against Leblanc as ahri. Trust me, I'm bronze.

Hello I am Bird3 votes

Tbf, with Athenes you are basically sacrificing 20 AP and a bit less mana regen for 60 MR...

Pretty fair trade if you ask me.

Zenthon Prime7 votes

Athenes? Less mana regen than Morello's? What world are we living in?

It Hertz When IP2 votes

A reverse one apparently, since both have 100% base mregen but Athene's adds the passive on top of that....

NineTailedMystic8 votes

60 MR wat. Athene's gives 25 MR

My Chats Hidden2 votes

EXACTLY. Give a little bit of advice to a bad player and they get all offended.

Croiss21 votes

What I hate more is when someone is like 0/5, And a guy is like "gg ff no hope" or something, so they afk or stop trying.

jmanosu8 votes

or worse constantly hits the surrender button even though the team is doing well carrying him.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

Or when they're like "GG there's no point" -keeps running into 1v5- "omg team where were you?"

Like, why are you complaining there's no hope when you're the cause of it? lol

63536895_DEL3 votes

You know it would be an Ezreal player that pulls that shit.

J E B A ł T E D13 votes

You're raging more than that guy right now though

But true

ZT Xperimentor10 votes

Cannot upvote enough, more people need to realize respect goes a lot farther than insults.

Only Play Darius10 votes

What if it's a Riven player?

GhostOfShrimpmas4 votes

Rage at them for playing Riven, not for playing poorly.

invisiblecat11 votes

Everybody ha-ates Rivennnnnnnnn Because no one knows how to counter her ( The first part is supposed to be sung to the Everybody hates Chris song)

NegusInParis9 votes

Sometimes, that 0/5:er is going to be you.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

Yes, yes it is.

Your point?

MakeKatOPAgain12 votes

What I feel he means is that he is directing that towards the ragers.

You <the rager> will eventually be the guy <0/5> who is doing poorly. Would you want to be raged at? No? Exactly

Something to that extent I think.

ReDesign7 votes

this and stuff like this needs to be pinned at the top 24/7

Hollow Miracles5 votes

As a guy who isn't too great at this game, I think that those people who end up feeding for whatever reason just need to hear that you haven't given up on them OR the game yet. In my experience, ending up in that position really feels like the whole game is over and that it's your fault 100%, when that may not be the case. Maybe you got counter-picked or camped, maybe your lane opponent roamed and grabbed some kills elsewhere, etc. Just let them know that you still believe that your team can win, and more importantly that they can STILL COME BACK. Try to encourage them to break even on their KDA, or tell them ways they can be useful to the team.

Pandemic Punch4 votes

Yep

RoodToob4 votes

I love these posts ^_^, I'm optimistic a lil and always hope someone else sees these and changes

Kei1434 votes

the real question is ..

what are you?

a guy ?

a fox?

a teemo ?

i mean ... should i burn you to death?

SettDownShutUp4 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn] But how is he supposed to know to improve if I don't tell him how bad he is?

Guy Fox Teemo4 votes

You give him constructive criticism, maybe a Gangplank died 5 times in lane to Riven, "Hey Gangplank, just stick to farming man, clear the wave with barrels and back off, and ult when you see kills on other parts of the map, so you can gain a lead for later on in the game."

AlienPrimate3 votes

Telling him how bad he is: "WTF" "you suck" "feeding troll" "just afk"

Helping: "stay under tower and wait for a gank" "just group with us" "farm jungle a little bit while the enemy pushes to tower" "ward x bush" "jungler is near your lane so back off" "tower is almost dead so just go b"

SettDownShutUp2 votes

Mental Note: Sarcasm isn't read well through text.

I was Lupxel2 votes

As a permabanned player, I noticied one thing. Now that I rarely write on chat (and never to flame or beeing toxic), I never point out that Veigar mid that is 1/6 against Zed; or our bot lane that is 0/3 and 0/4. Althouth I'm only level 21 yet (but here are smurfs so...) I witnessed they turn the game and actually winning and carrying the game. Which is a surprise to me now that I'm reforming.

Yeah, this don't happen all the time, but is a waste of efford flaming someone, just think you won't see / play those guys again, its just a match in many others

Project omen2 votes

I remember raging like that sometimes when I was in silver. As I kept climbing I realized that even if a player does bad, there is absolutely no point in saying anything to him. The best you can do is help him get back in the game (stall the game so he can farm, give him kills etc). Raging is bad not only for him, but for you and your team. You need to accept that there are going to be people that do bad in your games sometimes and work around it.

Ademola2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Guy Fox Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=U3H5KayO,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-03T10:23:12.614+0000)

Don't fucking rage in chat and make everything worse. You yelling at him that "You fucking suck" "GG you lost us this game" "Fucking Noob" "Why are you feeding" "REport this guy for feeding"

Isn't going to god dam help win you that freaking game, all you do is make that player play worse, make your self play worse and lower everyone elses moral about the game. Just shut the hell up and play.

I guarantee you'll win a shit ton more if you just shush and play.

Wheres the report option for excessive swearing. Didn't realise my profanity filter didn't block forums

Guy Fox Teemo4 votes

I apologize if you're offended by swear words. But Riot has no policy against them, I've played with several Rioters in my games and they all swear, but they don't use it to demoralize others. Only when you use it for harassing someone or purposely offending someone in a harmful way; only then does it become toxic, and wrong.

kaltenashes2 votes

i'm loving smite, i'm lvl 12 there and no one flames there <3,

i avoid playing melee champs 'cause i'm really bad at using melee basic attacks =/ and in those games all that i ever got was something like 'try to stop feeding and stay close to us'

bobsenbob2 votes

honestly, you won't win if you don't try to win, saying gg ff@20 is just going to make it harder to comeback

For Carthage2 votes

http://www.mysahana.org/2011/05/emotion-suppression-effects-on-mental-and-physical-health/

Relevant.

Seriously, though, not saying you should send a barrage of hate towards the person, but you are absolutely entitled to one "Fuck you" just to get it out.

And before the "Just yell at the computer" or "Punch a pillow" arguments come up, some people have other people that live around/near them. And some people don't really like destroying their own personal objects when the object is clearly not the issue.

Just saying. One "Fuck you" is simple, short, sweet, and is an immediate stress release that is benign enough a statement nowadays that the receiving party probably isn't going to crash and burn just because somebody said that to them.

If the receiving party is that sensitive... good fucking god, man. Get off the Internet before you retreat into a burrito-like shell of blankets and spend the rest of your week in bed.

Parceval4 votes

Wrong.

You can YELL and SCREAM and RELEASE all the emotions you want. At your screen, not with your fingers.

For Carthage1 votes

Again. I live next to multiple people. I don't need to disturb multiple people. What you're suggesting is even more asininely inconsiderate.

Parceval1 votes

? So you're suggesting it's better to be aggressive to other people online than in person. What you wouldn't do to those around you shouldn't do to those online.

How is a few random non-directed swear words at a computer more inconsiderate than DIRECTED and INSULTING words online? You're being a bully. What's more, you're hiding behind a psychological study which is barely relevant. I can tell you from 5 years of playing this game, and three decades of life, that I am more happy, calm, and a better person when I learn to control my emotions than wildly spew them at abandon.

I've found the more zen I am, the better I play. And I'm sure as you watch any professional athlete, you'll see the same pattern.

For Carthage1 votes

Saying "Fuck you" to somebody is bullying, huh. What kind of absurdly sheltered child are you exactly?

It's a display of displeasure that's proven scientifically to be more stress-relieving. Curse words sound harsher and so make people feel like they're matching the displeasure others do to them more solidly. However, that phrase is so abundantly common nowadays that the impact towards other people is generally lost on them. If you are actually having a massive issue because of that, that is being heavily oversensitive.

And I would absolutely tell other people "Fuck you" in reality. If they were the ones causing me issues. The people around me are not causing me any discomfort whatsoever. It's the 5/17 Yasuo top that is. It's the 1/11 Renekton mid that is. It's the guy that has continued to put off last whisper until his last item despite facing nothing but tanks that is. So why would I make the people around me have to pay for what someone else is doing? Do you have a reason? What's your reason?

Oh, that's right. You don't have one besides "But it makes me fyeel byad."

Funny, you're making me feel upset by continuing to try and duel the champ our team has collectively told you you cannot duel.

Parceval1 votes

Why do you jump to an insult---again---in this conversation?

You're hiding behind a singular study that is tangentially related to the situations we're discussing. Yes, it's true that prolonged emotional suppression can lead to adverse conditions. However, an adverse event in League of Legends hardly qualifies for the magnitude of emotions required. When emotional suppression has been shown to cause negative physical reactions it is from immense personal events: death in the family, divorce, etc.

What you're talking about here is more akin to anger management. And, from there, there are a host of doctoral papers, research notes, and more, that have found the correct response to anger management is NOT to respond in anger. Instead, one should actively look to control, manage, and delay response. Become introspective, tell yourself to relax, take deep breaths, and look to delay outward manifestations until you have acquired mastery over the emotion.

I can reference you out to three quick sources, but there are many you can find yourself with a quick search:

https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTCS_97.htm http://www.apa.org/topics/anger/control.aspx http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1007/BF00884700/abstract (this is a complete study for the purposes of law enforcement, which surely experience far more advanced forms of anger, daily, than us LoL nerds).

What's more, studies WITHIN League of Legends have found that the activities you're suggesting result in a higher probability of loss. There is no verifiable advantage to your insults. Instead, you could try providing calm, constructive feedback. But, the truth is that even that (unless the player is open to commentary, which we rarely are when we're doing poorly) will more often than not adversely affect your chances of victory.

References: Three friends--a child psychologist, general psychologist, and sports psychologist.

Side note: There are rare cases of true feeders and trollers. In those situations your best bet is to ask them to stop, if they don't, then report them. 'Digital yelling' will only exacerbate your own anger and more likely than not only make your situation in the game worse.

Benesmash2 votes

The thing is, even offering constructive criticism is useless in this game. People are too sensitive.

I played a game last night where the vayne on our team was feeding. 0-5 10 minutes in because he kept tower diving and dying. I told him vayne is weak early game and you have to play passive and just try to even up on farm because you'll out scale late game. The response I got was "if you think you're so fucking good why don't you win the game without me. I'm AFK"

The people who play this game are just WAAAAYYYY to sensitive. The dota community is way less sensitive and toxic which.

Here's an example of my dota game last night. I was pudge Vs huskar. I didn't die but I couldn't get any farm. My top told me "you worthless piece of shit. You fucking suck" I responded with "no you fucking suck. Why don't you stop being so god damn worthless and come gank mid you worthless fuck"

He came mid, ganged, I snowballed by annihilating the other lanes. We won. No one had hurt feelings and we became friends. If that conversation happened in league someone would AFK.

Parceval1 votes

I've had games where we insulted each other, recovered, and still won. I'm not sure that's unique to DOTA.

I also agree that constructive criticism rarely works. As I originally said, the person has to be open to the conversation.

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all seems to be wise enough advice.

For Carthage1 votes

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/hospital/hazards/stress/stress.html http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Your_Industry/Healthcare_Sector/Work_Related_Stress/ http://www.hse.gov.uk/stress/standards/step1/ http://www.ilo.org/safework/areasofwork/workplace-health-promotion-and-well-being/WCMS_108557/lang--en/index.htm https://osha.europa.eu/en/themes/psychosocial-risks-and-stress

Yes, a "singular" study.

First of all, calling you sheltered is hardly an insult - it's an observation. If "fuck you" is bullying, you have not taken a step out into the real world, worked a single job, spent any time in a public school, done practically anything outside your house. The phrase - and variants of the phrase - are used daily because people get angry. It happens. So long as they aren't railing on you or making death threats, just stand there and let them get it out of their system because one of the worst things they can do is bottle it up. This is also glossing over the fact that it is being used towards a person actively causing displeasure to the person - now if I just walked up, told you to go fuck yourself for no reason and left, then that's uncalled for. You didn't do anything. If you've been kicking me in the shins for the past 10 minutes on the bus, then you have absolutely no room to call "bullying" when I stand up and demand you quit kicking me in the goddamn shins.

Now perhaps that's difficult. Maybe your muscles spasm and you have difficulty controlling your legs, so you inadvertently wind up kicking me only because you can't help it (this would be comparable to dying a lot due to a jungler camping you or other such reasons). Now, while this makes it a little more acceptable, if you are simply saying this and doing absolutely nothing to try and counteract what you are doing - like, say, holding your leg to keep it still (in other words, staying by tower or in extreme cases abandoning the lane for some jungle creep and ganking before returning for farm whenever it's safe) - then we fall back on the "fuck you" being acceptable because you're not even trying. You're just accepting that you are directly causing others discomfort.

So, second of all, I'm not talking about anger management and I have absolutely no clue where you're even pulling that from. Anger management is learning to keep anger outbursts in control when they are inappropriate or excessive - that would fall into the category of people telling others that they should be shot because the guy accidentally bumped into him. That is excessive anger. "Fuck you" is not excessive unless all you did was sneeze. Now if you sneezed directly into my goddamn face, then oh hell yeah, "fuck you" is no longer excessive. What you're failing to draw is a proper line. Since you referenced a police study, I'm sure you'll then be aware of the "equal force" portion of "self-defense" in that you are only allowed to defend - or retaliate - to a threat up to the amount that they are threatening you with. While the wording sounds extreme, it is actually very tame - basically, if somebody punches you, you can only punch back. Using, say, a knife will escalate the situation and put you at a liability. So if somebody tells you "fuck you", you can say "fuck you" back. Simple, right? Of course this gets harder to gauge when you're crossing things - deciding the level of verbal retaliation you can rightfully respond with when somebody's kicking your shins on the bus isn't a straight and definite line. But there is a line, child, and it's drawn by using your intuition.

So the point of that block of text is this: Asking somebody not to respond to somebody who is feeding is like stepping on the back of somebody's shoes several times and demanding them to stay silent about it.

So now we have the third point - that toxicity causes more loses. Truth is it probably doesn't. I know it's hard to comprehend this, but Riot is using a stupidly common tactic when it comes to surveys. Basically, as long as the results say what they want it to say, they can make as many asinine claims about the results as they want. But let's use our deductive reasoning here: If people win games, isn't it more likely that they simply didn't have a reason to be toxic? Losing a game always carries the stigma of inherently being negative, and so would actually cause a reason for people to be toxic - winning a game, however, causes no such thing. You're never mad because you bloody won a game. This is a common case where correlation does not indicate causation. People don't win more games because they're positive - people are positive because they win more games. That makes fully logical sense and is more likely to be what the study was actually showing. News sources even do this all the goddamn time - or have you never heard the concept of "reporter bias" before? Or watched the news at all?

But let's not even touch on that. Let's touch on the topic of LCS and toxicity - there's a ton of it. More than here. Move to Korea. Try playing there. If this is your attitude towards being simply told "fuck you", then I can tell you with absolute certainty you will have a breakdown or outright uninstall League. Or consign yourself to versing AI the rest of your days, whatever works.

The reason I say this is the Asian scene follows significantly different rules and they are, by far, the most toxic players to ever be spawned. Samsung White's Imp would tell people they should never have been born just for giving first blood. The entirety of the Chinese line-ups tended to fucking hate each other. Toxicity has minimal if any actual bearing on if you are about to win a game or not, that is just tried and true fact - losing just causes toxicity while winning does not. Welcome to competition.

And hell, I've played an absurd amount of sports. You're not using a sports psychologist as a reference here - there's no way. After a collective 18 years of baseball, soccer, and football, I have had coaches completely destroy us when we're down because in those cases we're not ready to hear some bullshit about how we've just gotta try harder - no, we're well aware that we're doing fucking awful and telling us otherwise just sounds insincere. The coach would tell us how it is, what the fuck we needed to do, and that we needed to step up our game. And you know what? We would. We didn't just get sad and stop trying, we went out to win. And no, we didn't win all the time because of it, but we would fucking try, and so much harder because the fact was the coach wasn't getting us down - it was that we believed him. So we didn't spite him, we didn't tell him he was being harsh. No, in fact, if you want to use anger management as a retort, then you'll also realize that the main argument behind that is that you can control your reaction to things - so shouldn't I tell you to control your sadness if you're demanding I control anger? We're both reacting to negative stimuli brought on by other people here.

No. I won't tell you to control your sadness because it happens. What I'm going to tell you is this - you get upset at people telling you you suck because you believe them. You think they have a point. So what, you shut down after that? You suck at drawing. Are you just going to stop drawing? No, when people tell me I'm sucking ass, I tell them to fuck themselves and I redouble my efforts because I want to improve. Yeah, I may be sucking ass right there and then - but that is not where I'll be staying.

And sometimes you fail still - it happens. You'll be upset. Go play something more calming or watch some TV or do some chores or go outside. Come back later. Double your efforts. If you're so brought down by somebody telling you "fuck you" in a video game, you apparently don't even really have much of a will to play the game and get better.

Undoubtedly you're going to gloss or skim over this entire thing, so I'll provide you with a summary:

The TL;DR:

One, people have a right to retaliate towards people causing them discomfort. There are lines to be drawn here, clearly, and you should know them. But demanding somebody not retaliate when another is causing them discomfort is akin to telling somebody to stay silent when somebody keeps stepping on their heels.

Two, this is not a discussion of anger management. This is a discussion of the damages bottling stress can provide. And no, these are not massive stressors coming from this game, but more often than not the little on little on little on little on more and more little things is what weighs on a person in the long run than the big things. You will on occasion find the person suppressing big issues such as grief or abuse, but these are extreme cases as opposed to the every day cases.

Three, Riot's survey results are manipulated to benefit their own agenda. Correlation does not mean causation - in this case, toxicity does not cause loses, it's that losing causes toxicity. Riot reverses this in order to benefit their goal of trying to make their game less notoriously toxic without realizing that that's borderline impossible when demanding people rely on others to achieve a goal with minimal individual impact.

So there, I believe I've covered all of my bases. I'm going to ask politely you don't try to twist words or change the topic again, but knowing people on these boards I can say with almost utmost certainty that you will anyway.

Parceval1 votes

Your articles links are all about stress. That doesn't justify insulting. Again, the situation your discussing here is anger management.

I'm a 30 year old man who's been employed since I had a paper route at 12. I'm married, went to public high school and college. I'm not sheltered. I have no issue at all with fuck, shit, and language in general. I'm calling into question the necessity and value of using it in this context.

The OP was not talking about intentional feeding, and neither am I. That's not what this conversation is about. I believe we're arguing on two sides of the fence. I'm with you when it's intentional. However, where we probably disagree is that I tend to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I don't assume he's died five times because he wants to, and I don't look for reasons to justify that belief. It's a gray line, sure, but I try to put myself in his shoes. I've had MANY games where I died due to mistakes, but that doesn't mean I want to lose this game. I still want to recover, I still want to make the epic play. Insults don't help me recover, so I don't see how they would help him.

You can tell me fuck you all you want. Again, what I'm suggesting that you don't paint with a brush that says it's "more likely appropriate to say fuck you than not." Because, the reality that I see is the opposite.

I will say this. You appear to be on quite a high horse on this issue that the person who's done poorly should just be able to 'man up' and 'handle' your insults. From my experience in life, I would say that most problems are problems with self. Hopefully you handle the 'fuck yous' with grace when they come your way.

But, it looks like we'll disagree on this issue. Best of luck on the rift.

For Carthage1 votes

More likely than not. There's a spectrum for every social issue and while neither may be at extremes, we are on two different sides of this spectrum.

No, I do mean that if even it is not strictly intentional, they should still be reprimanded a bit if they are not taking any steps to avoid the negative action. Again, the example of muscle spasms - if you were kicked once by a man who had muscle spasms and he apologized because he did not mean to do it and it was out of his control, then I am not saying that you should chastise him. But in this case of "0/5", that is akin to the same man kicking you four more times in the same way and apologizing again. This man has not taken any steps to avoid kicking you, he has not done anything to keep from doing it (such as holding his leg, placing it behind his other, perhaps just stepping away), no - he is continuing to do the action while presuming that apologizing once again will continue to excuse it. It does not.

If somebody is 0/2, that happens. You tell the person to step back and keep a distance, build a specific item, switch a lane, etc. You give them tips. If that somebody jumps to 0/5, has taken none of the advice, and still thinks that it is unintentional that they are feeding more, that is wrong - you have presented them with a myriad of options to fix their situation, all of which they have ignored, and that is an intentional choice. That is definitely their fault and there should be no question as to why somebody has told them to fuck themselves at that point.

Now do not misinterpret this as excusing all toxicity period. No. There is a line as I said. You do not explode on the person, you give a discharge of emotion. Penting up the anger you feel from this will inevitably result in that person exploding on somebody else far worse than a simple "Fuck you". I've seen the most mild people get absolutely livid at somebody else in this game, including a couple of friends that vehemently refuse to curse - they were angry because of a jungler that refused to gank all lanes, which rather than just write them off as an asshole, they decided to engage with the person. It reaches a point where you have had enough. The worst thing you can do is risk hitting the breaking point. So a "Fuck you", a "Goddamn it", a "For fuck's sake", letting out a short, generic phrase towards the culprit makes you feel like you are addressing the problem in a way instead of cowering from it, and that is what causes the release of stress, the removal of helplessness. It is not a lot, but it is more than people care to admit.

But as you said, you don't think this way. A lot of us do feel like people tend to brush off advice and remove themselves from blame in this manner, though, and believe that to be fairly toxic. It's going to boil down to a middle ground that we have yet to find here.

Demonicous1 votes

You have a great point, but the wording of the post is setting a bad example.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

How is it setting a bad example? Whats wrong with swearing? The only way its harmful is if you use to harass other players. Calling them specifically shit, or any other word you could you to demoralize them.

I simply chose to use these words to express my opinion more aggressively but in no context are any of these words offending anyone.

Context matters GREATLY

jQuery1 votes

Yes, not just pointless but very destructive, I agree!

The amount of times when a flamer lost map pressure, gave up an objective, left a team-mate to die or even died himself because it was more important to write offences in chat....

I believe my most used reply in this game is : less chat - MORE PLAY!!

...And some times I recommend this song : https://soundcloud.com/mindlessselfindulgence/ass-backwards

OMG R U OKAY1 votes

Agreed! if you encourage or offer advice to the struggling player they will more than likely make a come back and maybe save your butt in a team fight later down the line. Trust me been there done that. I've seen people change their luck in an instant because of another players good advice or help in game . after all we all know you can be as fed as you want but if you cant work as a team you will lose. EVERY TIME. unless you are freaking Rengar and Korean*[zombie-brand-facepalm]* (inside joke guys sorry)

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