Are you gonna stop putting unranked players in high silver/low gold games?

Succubús GF·Jun 18, 2017·35 votes·3,070 views

Theres literally no reason a fresh lv 30 account should just jump into silver/gold elo like ? What were you thinking? Get it together.

54 Comments

MartensiticJun 18, 20176 votes

There is literally no difference between the skill of a fresh lvl 30 and the average gold/silver player.

Succubús GFJun 18, 201711 votes

Tell that to the 0/14 xin who just turned level 30. Wanna try that one again?

MartensiticJun 18, 20179 votes

Tell that to the 0/14 xin who just turned level 30.

A wild ANECDOTE appears!

STATISTICAL-FACT uses Relevance.

The attack is very effective!

You have defeated ANECDOTE!

Succubús GFJun 18, 20178 votes

Where is the statistic though? Wheres the link? Is it invisible kind of like your argument?

MartensiticJun 18, 20174 votes

Wow, someone gets triggered fast. So angry cause you already know that superior arguments are about to smash assumptions?

#HERE IS YOUR LINK :-)

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/de/rankings/rank-distribution

Look at the rank distribution. Notice how it resembles a bell-curve, with the peak at Silver IV-V? Its a bit lopsided towards bronze, but the image is pretty clear: The vast majority of the player population is within a broad band from Bronze III to Gold IV. Being in the majority distribution of the curve means, you are similar to everyone around you to a certain degree.

So there is no significant difference in their skill.

I put it in simpler terms: Saying that a Gold player is vastly better than a Silver player, is like saying your cabin abord a ship that smells of old fish is vastly better than a cabin abord the same vessel which is closer to the bow.

A vastly better cabin is not aboard the same ship...its aboard a DIFFERENT ship.

On noes, did you, when you wrote your angry triggered post expect I cannot provide evidence for my claims?

Well, I am happy to disappoint you in this regard :D

Phyuq YiuJun 18, 20172 votes

I clicked your link expecting a bell curve. I did not see a bell curve.

Guess I am triggered, disappointed and w/e other status you prefer to inflict as well.

MartensiticJun 18, 20171 votes

I did not see a bell curve.

You are aware that a bell curve is a construct, determined by numeric data?

Good.

You see numbers on that page?

Good.

You know what a curve looks like?

Good.

It should be no problem now for you to see that numerical data, which is right there on the page, is representable as a bell curve, even if said curve was not spoon-fed to the audience as a picture.

Phyuq YiuJun 18, 20173 votes

Thats a bell curve? sure bud The rank being distributed this way means a fresh lv 30 fits in well with silver 1? sure bud

garren9Jun 18, 20173 votes

What makes you think that someone who just turned level 30 is average skill?

iamthegoatofwarJun 19, 20171 votes

Do you see how big an asshole you're being?

Good.

Do you see how this site means bullshit in regards to your level 30 claim?

Good.

Do you see that it doesn't even show what rank "new" level 30 accounts started out as in ranked?

Good.

MartensiticJun 19, 20171 votes

And post reported to the moderators :D

Have a nice day :D

Succubús GFJun 18, 20172 votes

There was no bell curve ;/

MartensiticJun 18, 20171 votes

There are numbers aplenty.

I trust that you can do something so trivially simple as visualizing simple distributions as a curve.

Trias000Jun 19, 20171 votes

It's not a bell curve. Majority of players are in bronze. Unless you included players that have no rank, then it might be a bell curve, but that would only prove that those players don't belong in silver/gold matches.

Succubús GFJun 18, 20174 votes

Wow trigger jokes are still a thing? Isnt't it funny that trigger warnings are an actual thing that help people with traumatic episodes? I bet you feel like an ass now don't you? Your link has a few flaws

There is no bell curve. (https://www.bing.com/search?q=bell+curve&form=EDGTCT&qs=PF&cvid=8127776562ae45ecac6a6490bdee0617&cc=US&setlang=en-US) is a bell curve, there isn't even a graph. Good job at your bad statistic.
That's in German, which is, if you haven't guessed, isn't NA, (my region)
"Champion mains" literally has nothing to do with unranked players. Relevancy literally isn't there.
If I was to use your source as an indicator, the majority is bronze. Therefore the player base is majorly and more so, on average, bronze. By a whole 11% Nice try though

MartensiticJun 18, 20171 votes

[deleted]

Phyuq YiuJun 18, 20172 votes

Rammus ok

Succubús GFJun 18, 20172 votes

Is that even a response? Bye troll

MartensiticJun 18, 20171 votes

[deleted]

Velzard of KozJun 18, 20171 votes

You were the one bringing up the "triggered" argument, followed by imaginary bell curve.

DrCyanideJun 18, 201714 votes

The average player is Silver level, sure, but the average player isn't a brand new level 30 now are they?

I don't know of a website that shows where new level 30's place (because short of obsessively automatically tracking individual players the data isn't available through the Riot API), but if I had to guess it'd be a lot of Bronze, a fair amount of Gold/Plat, with relatively little Silver.

Pretty much every player I've seen post on the boards about how they just got to 30 and they want to jump into Ranked gets Bronze. And those are the ones looking for advice before diving in.

MartensiticJun 18, 20171 votes

I can only speak for myself, but I jumped into ranked on my most recent account (my main is too old for me to remember, sorry) at Silver II, and quickly made the climb up without any noticeable improvement on my part.

So the distribution to me seems very even between mid Bronze - mid Gold.

DrCyanideJun 18, 20173 votes

By your own admission this isn't your first time leveling up an account, and you ended up closer to Gold. I think the OP is right that brand new players are closer to Mid Bronze than Mid Silver.

Trias000Jun 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I jumped into ranked on my most recent account

Do you see the difference between a new account and a new player?

ii GeMiNi Jun 18, 20172 votes

i just died a little inside. you get a gold star. [zombie-brand-clap]

GULAG 4 UJun 18, 20172 votes

reddit much?

ZephyrDrakeJun 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Afk Warding,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B8mUwjQN,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-18T11:34:50.165+0000)

Tell that to the 0/14 xin who just turned level 30. Wanna try that one again?

i will and i will also tell that to the 0/99 yasuo who is in gold thinking he is actually good as well. Everyone has bad games so you want to try that again?

Succubús GFJun 18, 20171 votes

A level 30 who is unranked? okay "bad games"

GULAG 4 UJun 18, 20171 votes

Well then why are they silver and not gold?

chipndip1Jun 18, 20175 votes

Here's the thing: Silver is average mmr. New accounts get put at the average starting point, and then they'll either fall or climb depending on how they play. With this in mind, a new player isn't going to be forced into Bronze V. What if they played thousands of normal games? No, instead they'll be put in mid silver and they'll scrap it out to see where they ultimately belong.

Here's the OTHER thing: You're Silver 2, which is just one division from Silver 3, which is the middle of all of Silver. You're totally within the range of new players coming into the game at that elo. Yeah, Martensitic should have provided a bell curve is he's gonna talk about one, but you don't need one to know that you're around the average elo range of this entire game. OF COURSE you're gonna get newbies sometimes.

LauchmelderJun 19, 20171 votes

No, silver is NOT where fresh 30s should be put into (any more)

Fresh lvl 30s, and I mean actually new players, play at an average skill level of a lvl 15 due to Riot reducing the XP required to hit max level.

This means they should adjust the original MMR of new ranked players down to mid-high bronze.

chipndip1Jun 19, 20171 votes

When did mid silver players magically get this entitlement complex where they think their shit smells so much better than others that are starting out the same way they did?

Regardless, just because you have more game knowledge than you did before at this point doesn't mean the system has to cater to your needs. LoL's ladder doesn't start people from the bottom rung. It starts them at the average. The average happens to be where you are. You can't be mad about running into new players that need to be evaluated on if they're below or above average in skill if you're an average skilled player.

LauchmelderJun 19, 20171 votes

So you openly admit that you support boosted players.

The difference between a boosted diamond and a system boosted fresh lvl 30 is next to non existent. They both don't belong into their league.

But sure, I feel entitled to getting a better rank. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I carried myself to gold twice already and could've gone even higher if I would've played more ranked games.

Meanwhile I get teammates that just hit level 30 and feed their asses off because they simply don't belong anywhere near that elo.

They made leveling accounts faster so they should reduce the MMR you start from in your first ranked season.

QuephaJun 18, 20173 votes

Do you not understand what MMR is?

Douglas FunnieJun 18, 20172 votes

Since you were facing a Gold player (with silver 1 MMR), Riot wanted to up the ante by giving your team an unranked Xin Xhao with Tele/Ignite that went (2/19/6) with only 18% kill participation.

That's rough, man. I know the feels.

Succubús GFJun 18, 20173 votes

I assumed this as much, its what I get though, I was climbing too quickly with too many wins

MogarlJun 18, 20172 votes

I had a game in Silver where an account was so new to 30 op.gg still said it was level 29. It had 2 total ranked games, and both were losses. I believe a new account that plays well should be able to be placed in Silver, but what the hell is an account that fresh with every ranked game a loss doing in high silver/low gold?

My only guess in these situations are that a new player rushes to 30, plays ranked, loses, and then get's their more experienced high silver/gold friend to carry them. Whether or not they win, it heavily warps the matchmaking and pulls at least 5 people into a game they would rather not be in.

still doesn't take the cake for my favourite dumb game. My team 1 gold V 4 Silver I&II. Their team 1 gold II 1 low gold 2 Silver 1&2 1 Silver III. It's a shame the Gold II was a Caitlyn main playing Caitlyn and fucked my bot lane so hard nothing else on the map mattered.

Succubús GFJun 19, 20171 votes

Op.gg said the account was level 12. I had to refresh it repeatedly to show 30 unranked

ValyrianBladeJun 18, 20171 votes

Well, I doubt a fresh level 30 account as ever been put in a high silver / low gold game. You start at silver 4 MMR, so they need to be at least like 3-0 in placements to get in to that game in the first place.

Ignoring that though, there's every reason for it. First and foremost, people have started at that elo for all of ranked play. Why should new players suddenly be relegated to bronze by default? Many players have never had to climb out of bronze. I placed silver 1 out of my first ever ranked placements in season 5 (placed silver 4 in season 6 - ended each of those seasons in gold 5 with gold 2 ish MMR - haven't done solo queue yet in s7 but actually did place bronze 1 in flex and had to climb out). And in my first season of ranked I did fine with that placement. I did drop a few rankings first due to a losing streak, but how much can you really say about that (I've had plenty of losing streaks where my total KDA is along the lines of 110/90/80 and my teammates total KDA is along the lines of 140/500/150). Pretty sure those losing streaks are going to happen even to players who belong above that elo.

Many players get to level 30 and want to jump in to ranked right away. So they do, and they lose, and they quickly get brought down to bronze. I don't see a big problem with that, they start in matches with silver 5 to silver 3 elo and have a couple losses. Not a big deal. It may make silver 5 a bit more volatile than it would otherwise be, but it's still less volatile than bronze.

Then a decent number of players get to level 30, play a bunch of normal draft, accumulate a champion base and have rune pages filled out, and place in high silver / low gold. Why should people who actually prepared for ranked play properly have to start by climbing out of bronze? I can tell you, as someone who has managed to climb to gold each season with few ranked matches played (~70 in S5, ~90 in S6, and 146 from bronze 1 to gold 4 [got to gold 4 in about 120 games] in flex this season) the games I played in bronze 1 were by far the hardest. I was stuck in bronze 1 for a long time (failed my promos twice despite promo helper). The lower the elo, the harder it was to climb up until around silver 1/2/3. You're going to turn away a lot of new players by starting them in bronze. Sure, some deserve to be there. Some don't. The cost of having some players lose 2 or 3 games dropping from silver 4 to bronze 2 is worthwhile so those who are high silver/ low gold skilled don't have to play ~50 games to climb out.

EDIT: Just because you see fresh level 30s feeding doesn't mean that's the typical fresh level 30. How often do you check the status of all of your allies after a match? You probably selectively check the guy who's feeding, or just remember the guys who fed. Humans do that all the time (memory behaves that way). There are likely plenty of unranked players who do well in your games and you just don't happen to check them. The ones who do poorly may also be autofilled rather than actually not deserving of that elo. This is probably the first ranked season where new players may have never played certain roles. That's pretty scary. Since dynamic queue came out last season, new accounts that leveled to 30 in s6 may now be 30 and have never been forced to play off roles. It's pretty reasonable to expect them to suck when they get autofilled (also autofill became permanently activated this season, I don't remember getting filled much if at all in season 6).

GULAG 4 UJun 18, 20171 votes

It's mid level silver actually, not gold.

Succubús GFJun 18, 20171 votes

There was a gold on the enemy team

Dream HighJun 18, 20171 votes

It's annoying I think if you're unranked you should be put in Bronze and climb. Not sure why they start silver 5 or 4, get lucky and win a few games and then they're playing in the low gold range.

Sir FuzziJun 18, 20171 votes

Was it ranked? If so, hah, good job Riot.

Was it norms? Yeah, that's norms. They don't really seem to take a lot into consideration except that someone's queued.

CowseedJun 18, 20171 votes

no because one word: smurfs

SnakDatSmilesBakJun 19, 20171 votes

Wtf does that even mean? :^?

Ah O Yeah HarderJun 19, 20171 votes

He means people who are playing their first game while in unranked. Yes, a person who has won 6+ games in a row in placements will be in higher elo than silver.

SnakDatSmilesBakJun 19, 20171 votes

Seriously, they mostly belong in bronze.

Sakuri OnoJun 19, 20171 votes

Morning everyone.

Alright...normally I would give this a pass but I'm getting enough pings on both sides here that I think everyone involved should just take a short time to drop the subject and let heads cool.

We can discuss the pros/cons of the current placement system without things devolving into back and forth sniping.

So give it a few hours, then we can come back and revisit this again, kay?

If you have any questions or concerns regarding this action, you are free to reach us at the Moderation Discord here

Regards, http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/SakuriOno/signature_zpsxvarnhru.jpg