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A few concerns about the preseason changes

The Bearded Bard··3 votes·605 views

Now before you tell me that I'm jumping the gun and that this stuff hasn't even come out yet, I know that, but I also know bad ideas when I see them, and I don't relish the idea of the game being broken for months like it is every preseason.

For example: Fervor of Battle now grants up to 60 AD at max stacks/max level. The new Colossus keystone can grant up to a 35% max health shield. Both are fine if you're planning on committing to the idea of insanely strong keystones, but if you leave the others as is (dft, thunderlords, stormraiders, etc) no one is going to take them. They're simply going to be massively outclassed. You're also leaving mages with nothing to compete with.

Secondly, it seems you just blanket buffed all of Rengar's abilities without fixing any of his glaring design flaws. In fact, it seems you've actually enhanced his design flaws. Why?

Thirdly, I like the direction you're going with stealth when it comes to Twitch and Rengar, but you have to understand why it works for Eve but won't work for those two. Range. Evelynn has 0 range. The only ability she can even use outside of her reveal range is her ult. This creates a fantastic fast paced playstyle that's great for the Eve player while not being incredibly oppressive to the target. Twitch is ranged, meaning he never has to go within reveal range (and really never should). Rengar has his leap, so reveal range or not, he will still be able to attack you with very little counterplay. Simply put, the idea will work, but their reveal range needs to be larger than Eve's.

Those are the things I think will be the biggest issues, everything else looks pretty fun. I'm not too keen on the plant things, but that's more me being afraid of change than it is me thinking it's bad design.

9 Comments

Brutalitops012 votes

Pinks will still reveal Twitch, Rengar, and Evelynn, first off.

Second, Rengar reveals only the nearest enemy champion to him, and will tell them that they're the nearest enemy champion to him I believe regardless of distance, but don't quote me on that.

Third, the reveal range is 550, equal to Twitch's basic attack range without his ultimate. So saying that he should never be within reveal range is just not a valid thing since it is his basic attack range. Yes, I know his ult enhances his range to 850, but if he takes a step too close before he wants to go in now, he can almost always expect to die with how Twitch usually fights - flank the backline, blow them up with ult, then switch to frontline.

Fourth, again with Twitch, his W now gives less stacks when immediately dropped and more if they stay in it. Something that I don't mind, but that's certainly a nerf to his burst speed while being a buff to his zone pressure and jungling.

Fifth, Rengar's new Q now has a much longer animation and can't crit anymore. The glaring problem with live Rengar is how easily he can 1-shot you, stacking up his passive, jumping, and dealing your entire health bar with the basic attack + Q from the jump. This is no longer an issue, though I do see cause for concern with his new empowered W giving him a cleanse.

Sixth, Fervor. Yes, it grants 60 AD at max level at max stacks, but it takes 10 stacks to fully stack up, doesn't stack from abilities anymore, and fades after 4 seconds - half the time that it is on live. Overall, when you look at the real numbers, Fervor got nerfed HARD and autoattack-based ADC's are left with Warlord's as their only viable option now, because for anyone who isn't a melee fighter, Fervor takes too long to stack up for fights and doesn't give enough of a benefit until late game. "Mages can't compete." BS. You can burst us with Thunderlord's in half a second, and it'll take, with 2.5 attack speed, 4 seconds for ADCs to fully stack Fervor. By this point, typically a fight is over and/or the ADC is dead. Fervor got the biggest hit of anything in the preseason to it, and is utter garbage now with 0 reason to run it over Warlord's anymore. You try staying alive for 4 seconds in a teamfight, autoattacking literally as fast as possible (no attack moving allowed unless you're a kiting god), and NOT have the fight be determined before it's done. Go ahead, I'll wait.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

You're right about pinks revealing twitch and rengar, I misread the post. But the fact that Twitch's reveal range is the same as his basic attack range is exactly what I'm talking about. Eve's is the same reveal range, and yet she has to be directly on top of you to do damage, which means she is revealed before she can damage you. Same deal with Rengar. And speaking of Rengar, he's got more than just one awful design mechanic. Brush passive needs a cooldown, bola leap needs to not exist, and now he doesn't have the little ! when he's ulting so that small amount of counterplay is gone, replaced by a reveal range that is the same as his attack range. On top of that he's now got a cleanse. Nice.

On to Fervor: 60 AD can crit, the on hit damage couldn't. 60 x 2 is 120 with IE it's 150. 'But you're not going to crit all the ti-' Hell yeah you are considering most adcs that take Fervor also sport a nice 60+% crit chance. Also, abilities still generate stacks, it just has a two second cooldown between generating stacks. And correct me if I'm wrong, the stacks may last 4 seconds, but they still refresh when you attack. I'm pretty sure anyone can handle attacking at least once every 4 seconds. The 60 AD also works toward ability damage. Just as they said when the explained the change, this is a buff for the majority of champions that use it. This is honestly a buff to all crit building adcs, which is almost all of them that usually take Fervor. It's a nerf to Kog'maw, Kalista, Irelia, Kayle, and Kindred.

Brutalitops011 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B6gRKIBu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-11-04T07:53:43.748+0000)

You're right about pinks revealing twitch and rengar, I misread the post. But the fact that Twitch's reveal range is the same as his basic attack range is exactly what I'm talking about. Eve's is the same reveal range, and yet she has to be directly on top of you to do damage, which means she is revealed before she can damage you. Same deal with Rengar. And speaking of Rengar, he's got more than just one awful design mechanic. Brush passive needs a cooldown, bola leap needs to not exist, and now he doesn't have the little ! when he's ulting so that small amount of counterplay is gone, replaced by a reveal range that is the same as his attack range. On top of that he's now got a cleanse. Nice.

On to Fervor: 60 AD can crit, the on hit damage couldn't. 60 x 2 is 120 with IE it's 150. 'But you're not going to crit all the ti-' Hell yeah you are considering most adcs that take Fervor also sport a nice 60+% crit chance. Also, abilities still generate stacks, it just has a two second cooldown between generating stacks. And correct me if I'm wrong, the stacks may last 4 seconds, but they still refresh when you attack. I'm pretty sure anyone can handle attacking at least once every 4 seconds. The 60 AD also works toward ability damage. Just as they said when the explained the change, this is a buff for the majority of champions that use it. This is honestly a buff to all crit building adcs, which is almost all of them that usually take Fervor. It's a nerf to Kog'maw, Kalista, Irelia, Kayle, and Kindred.

He doesn't have the little "!" above you, but instead it's a pair of eyes above the person he's revealing with literally global range. Did you even watch the video on him?

And while Fervor gives the AD now, it takes much too long to ramp up and isn't worth the wait time until late game. 10 stacks for 60 bonus AD, at max attack speed and attacking without kiting or without missing any DPS from your kiting, that's 4 seconds to stack it up. By the time you're getting the full use out of it, most fights are over, the tank has died, and now you're either dead or they are. Also, the current Fervor is dealing 112 damage on-hit when fully stacked up with 0.8 seconds less time needed to fully stack it. So yes, it affects abilities and can crit while the on-hit damage doesn't affect abilities and can't crit, but unless you're critting on every basic attack, which would require 3 crit items to come close to for 80% crit chance, you're dealing near half the damage you were before the change with it fully stacked up. Argument invalid.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

You know that the reworked Fervor will be weaker, generally speaking, than the current one?

Before, the maximum damage per auto was 112 (8 x 14), whereas the mastery now only gives 60 AD. Unless you have a combined Crit Modifier of 87% (Crit Chance x Crit Damage Bonus (1 or 1.5 with IE)) or use abilities with a combined AD ratio of 0.87 per auto-attack, the damage is lower than in S6.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Crit isn't as hard to get as it used to be. It's common to see ADCs end with at least 60% crit chance, often more. On top of that, there are plenty of champions with AD ratios higher than .87.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Yes, late-game ADCs could potentially get a damage boost out of the new Fervor. With IE and 70/80% Crit Chance, the Crit Modifier would be 105%/120%, for 123/132 average damage increase.

For the ability AD ratio thingy, that number is the sum of all AD ratios someone needs to use for every auto-attack for new Fervor to do more damage than old Fervor. For example, if you auto-attack three times, you need to hit the enemy with a total 2.6 AD ratio:

3 x 112 = 3 x 60 + X x 60 336 = 180 + 60 X 156 = 60 X X = 156/60 = 2.6

The Bearded Bard1 votes

That's just simply not true. If I've got my stacks of Fervor, and I slap someone with a Volley as Ashe, I'm already doing more damage than I would have with old Fervor because old Fervor had 0 effect on abilities that weren't on hits. When it comes to autoattacks it's simple, if I crit, I'm doing more damage, if I don't, I'm doing less damage. Considering most champions crit most of the time late game, you're going to do more damage. Meaning it's a nerf to a few and a buff to the many.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

If you're only hitting someone with Fervor as Ashe, you will not have many stacks, though...especially since it is 10 stacks instead of 8 now.

Sightless661 votes

For example: Fervor of Battle now grants up to 60 AD at max stacks/max level.

This still represents decreased autoattack damage when compared to current Fervor even for most crit-heavy champions, and it stacks significantly slower. It's actually significantly worse.

it seems you just blanket buffed all of Rengar's abilities without fixing any of his glaring design flaws.

Really? Seems to me like only being able to jump to the closest target, having an actual animation on the Q instead of a near-instant auto reset, not being able to stack your ferocity before going in, and not being able to run through a whole team stealthed seem like pretty big hits. It seems like that increases the time it takes for him to get a kill, and lowers his ability to jump in from stealth without the enemies being able to do anything about it. Seems like it addresses some problems.

Twitch is ranged, meaning he never has to go within reveal range (and really never should).

Eh, that's a major oversimplification. A huge part of Twitch's power is tied up in flanking and wiping out the enemy carries quickly. It's an expectation that he'll be able to do that. If he can't get through an enemy team, then he can't assassinate.

The other big use of the Q is for defensive escaping, and that just got effectively removed. Good luck escaping if they get into range of you.

especially since you've taken away the effectiveness of pink wards to reveal stealth champions.

They still work just fine against Eve, Twitch and Rengar.

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