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Remember When Tankiness meant Tankiness

Ahristocats··14 votes·1,795 views

https://youtu.be/Bbn0szRR4GA?t=3178

ADC finished last whisper but still can't kill you in 3 sec Mages couldn't remove 50% of your hp in one rotation when you had 150 mr and 3k hp Tanks and bruisers both went full tank items, Tanks brought initiation and CC and utility and bruisers brought decent damage but not overbearing (unless the champ is broken) Marksmen didn't go full offense but bought several defensive items (like randuin in this video)

Teamfight lasted A WHOLE HALF OF MINUTE instead of finishing in 10 sec You had to think about how to play the game You had to kite/use your spell efficiently You had to choose your target instead of facerolling and killing the dude in front of you

"damage creep is a myth" my ** League used to requier a brain, until riot brought damage creep

nerfed armor mr and hp, and its price buffed the cost of offensive items gave %bonus damage to everyone with masteries GAVE 40% CDR TO EVERYONE

i can't even believe that they did this

38 Comments

Penns8 votes

I still remember when I got item 3031 item 3085 item 3006 item 3036 against a Malphite with 2 armor items and item 1401 ... https://embed.gyazo.com/592489ee47272b1a374946e5d745212c.gif item 3070

Ralanr7 votes

Honestly you were lacking sustain.

Penns5 votes

Old Warlords gave like 10-15% life steal towards the end there.. problem is, when you do damage like that youre only gonna heal for like 30 hp with item 3072 lol

Ralanr5 votes

Except with BT your lifesteal is at a constant at the first attack and can give you a shield while old warlords just gave it at low health.

So bloodthirster sustain would actually reduce the damage you were taking for each attack.

Ahristocats4 votes

No point of arguing with that dude, you have no way to know the items of malphite, or the items of tristana

Ralanr6 votes

Beyond what he provides.

That's not gonna stop me. Slow day at work so I'm really bored.

Penns5 votes

I shouldnt be taking damage for doing my job in the first place tbh, but I think thats your opinion on Thornmail too, right?

Ralanr3 votes

Yes I am honestly of the opinion that Thornmail is a dumb item as is. That doesn't excuse that you didn't build for it in mind.

Penns5 votes

Well I cant get life steal before 5th item tho cause without IE I have no damage, without Runaans I have no crit and attack speed and without Lord Dominiks I do nothing anyway.

Ralanr3 votes

Almost like that's why tanks fall off late.

Illâoi Evê Siôn7 votes

I've got three ways to help with this, but I doubt people will like them (because everyone dislikes the way the game currently is, but nobody wants their stuff to get nerfed):

1) Make Black Cleaver grant % Armor Penetration with half effectiveness for other allies. 2) Create a 15% CDR Tier with Morellonomicon, Trinity Force, Essence Reaver (passive, 5% per 10% Crit), and Black Cleaver in it. 3) Revert the latest Last Whisper changes. Edit: Don't believe this is a great solution anymore.

Ahristocats2 votes

i actually agree with the 2 first points

i'm neutral on the last one because it was done to nerf assassins, so why would you buff assassins's damage when they don't need a buff?

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

You're right, my 3rd point doesn't make much sense. But I still don't think Last Whisper should continue to exist in the way it currently does. Maybe its cost could be decreased and its %bonus Armor Penetration to match? Then it would be more like Executioner's Calling in the degree of power it offers. Something like 900 -- 1100 Gold and 35% Armor Penetration. It'd still be an item you buy to react to tanky threats, but it'd be easier to get and wouldn't completely shut down those threats.

Ahristocats3 votes

i think last whisper should not be changed OR has its %armor pen reduced by 5% or something like that

my thoughts are that the current problem of damage lies in crit/ad/cdr/total armor shred from bc/ and how riot nerfed armor/mr/hp and gave them damage with item 3068 item 3025

Anhartamin6 votes

[deleted]

Ahristocats5 votes

{quoted}

Cause nautilus, poppy, malph, rammus, shen, maokai, olaf and tk aren't tanky enough xd

Yes! finally someone realising that thy aren't tanky enough compared amumu/singed/xin/renekton in the video above

now if only they can realise that those tanks contribute to the damage creep by ALSO doing too much damage making teamfights lasting a short time

Anhartamin5 votes

[deleted]

doublelift fg2 votes

{quoted}

Damage creep? The only class dealing too much damage right now are tanks.

play twitch against brand+jhin+ori+graves+jayce

and tell me how you will be doing

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

Once Tanks become tanky again they will deal too much damage and not be killed fast enough. This time around, Riot can then nerf Tanks' damage (they could also do that preemptively but they dislike doing that so I guess Tank meta it is). That way everyone deals less damage and they've successfully worked against damage creep.

doublelift fg5 votes

remember when you didn't lose at 15 min in the game?

well to fixe that riot will give you surrender at 15

Taliyah Rocks3 votes

I miss when last whisper was good vs anyone, but slightly better vs tanks, and flat arpen was slightly better vs squishies. Now squishies are being dealt true damage, while tank are being ignore half their bonus armor PLUS a sh*t ton oh whatever is left.

When buying void staff on a mage, it is both useful against tank, but also has it's value against squishies, while not ignoring that much armor.

Big Lincoln3 votes

imagine how good juggernauts would be if defensive stats mattered like they used to

Ralanr4 votes

...kinda busted actually.

Big Lincoln2 votes

balanced

ForgiveColour2 votes

Why dont you upload your caitlyn montage

abca982 votes

Forgive my ignorance, what is dmg creep?

Ahristocats2 votes

it's when riot does everything listed above, and end up giving everyone a nuclear bomb then everyone dies in a short time leaving no time to play the game or to take skill at playing the game

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

I don't know what you do, but I would love to be able to nuke people with my Raka or Taric.

Ahristocats2 votes

i would love to be able to do a long teamfight with Sona without being nuked/my entire team being nuked

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Well of course you would with Sona. She's that kind of support.

Others, like Taric, like their fights to end before their invulnerability wears off.

Ahristocats3 votes

look at taric's entire kit and tell me that he doesn't want a long fight his passive ENCOURAGES long fights as he can get bonus damage and effect everytime he uses spells

short teamfights are for "supports" like brand zyra or malz

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Well yeah that's obvious.

I'm just saying that a 2.5 second invincibility would very quickly become useless in a 30+ second fight.

The rest of his kit? Oh yeah he won't mind.

Pretty sure you can't count Zyra as a "support" because unlike Brand or Malz she's pretty much a veteran down there.

Gregor Gysi1 votes

You forgot the nerfs to damage items and offensive abilities in genreal (mage items, Bloodthirster etc.). Now with that being said we obviously have more damage in the game due to the masteries (that have more impact now especially due to the keystones) and the new last whisper that is just too strong against tanks (last whisper change was trash).

Also, just take a look at Genja's Ezreal. Goddamn, there are worlds between Bang's Ezreal right now and this. Even with FoB and the new LW there is no way that Genja would have killed anything.

Ahristocats2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gregor Gysi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AzXAvqrr,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-03-20T14:55:06.521+0000)

You forgot the nerfs to damage items

AP was the only thing nerfed, AD was not changed except on BT but in exchange Crit was buffed and for AD casters several AD items were put in the game instead of forcing them to buy CRIT which means they will have more AD than before, and more Armor PEN

[{quoted}](name=Gregor Gysi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AzXAvqrr,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-03-20T14:55:06.521+0000)

and offensive abilities in genreal (mage items, Bloodthirster etc.).

abilities or items?

[{quoted}](name=Gregor Gysi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AzXAvqrr,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-03-20T14:55:06.521+0000)

Also, just take a look at Genja's Ezreal. Goddamn, there are worlds between Bang's Ezreal right now and this. Even with FoB and the new LW there is no way that Genja would have killed anything.

and yet if you watch the rest of the game + 2nd game+ final against azubu blade he killed a lot

Gregor Gysi2 votes

IE got nerfed, the crit items were new. But they got nerfed again so it's kind of what do say what's up with them. They also removed Brutalizer (which is a huge nerf for snowballing/midgame and it was core on every caster) and nerfed Ghostblade. Back then you could build BT on casters which was just amazing with the old BT and you had LW to assassinate people instead of arpen.

Just take a look at the patch history of champion X, all total nerfs. Be it Riven or Renekton or anything that didn't get major changes that obscure number nerfs.

Yeah, the overall niveau was much lower back then which also means that they simply did not optimize their damage output as well.

Marshbouy1 votes

League used to requier a brain, until riot brought damage creep

lol, the irony. League still requires a brain.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Why are you making a thread to complain about tanks right before a tank class update?

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