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Can we address the spaghetti of hooks?

Hibeki··46 votes·2,976 views

All you need is this single frame to tell a story of what's wrong with hooks in this game:

http://imgur.com/MmFsH97

Just from this picture I can come up with four things that is wrong here.

Exhibit A:

http://imgur.com/0VbAWZL

As you can see, the original hook has not hit anything yet. This is why the animation is still playing. It not only misses Miss Fortune entirely, but preemptively begins the grabbing animation and bringing her towards Blitzcrank.

Exhibit B:

http://imgur.com/gorBVZG

Even if we were to take into account that the true hook is on Miss Fortune, you can clearly see that the line between Miss Fortune and Blitzcrank is interrupted by a Creep. Therefore instead of grabbing Miss Fortune, it should have grabbed the creep instead.

Exhibit C:

http://imgur.com/LFp1ZMJ

Despite all this, Clearly Nami is much closer to the hook the hook than Miss Fortune, and in fact should the line continue, it WOULD hit Nami, yet Miss Fortune is still the one who is hooked.

Exhibit D:

http://imgur.com/qUNQG5Q

You can clearly see here the new hooks animation has the fist MUCH farther up than the original, meaning that before the hook had even gotten to that point it was still registered as hit.

Seriously? I used to think that "Ok maybe I did get hit by that hook" But seeing shit like this totally confirms me that hooks are just bullshit. If the hook is down to a nose its basically up to the spaghetti code if i dodged it or not and im not happy with that.

Nautilus has a problem where long after the hook animation has finished someone will be hooked, and this is illustrated by the fact that BOTH PARTIES were not prepared for a hit.

This is ridiculous

39 Comments

Kingnewgameplus29 votes

Blitz got a hotfix buff this patch to where if you're having fun as ADC his hook becomes targeted.

MkShenGreatAgain2 votes

Look at all this cool shit that happens when you keep jamming shit in the shell of a game from 2009!

Can they just revert this game to Season 5 and make a League of Legends 2 now?

3TWarrior1 votes

it took them like 5 years to write the original code...they would have to rewrite EVERTHING from scratch...and that's quite a bit when they've been in business for 8 years

everything from champion models to runes to masteries to damage formulas, etc

everything would have to be rewritten

RavenMagus4 votes

If that actually requires having fun as ADC to trigger, I don't see how it has any effect.

WizardXZD1 votes

I mean, there is one ADC on each team, so it's not unreal for one to dominate over another, right?

Kappa

GhaelWinds7 votes

So to debunk this whole myth of broken hooks. The problem with hooks from people's perspective is a mix of invisible hitboxes and the second animation of said hooks. So here we go this'll be a doozy. First. The hook in this picture (and many other hooks) have a slightly wider hitbox than is shown as well as champions having a slightly wider hitbox than their model. Combine those slights and that hook hits the miss fortune. Seeing in hitboxes is more important than seeing models. TL;DR. Skillshots hit hitboxes not models. Second. The particular problem with hooks in regards to the "second hook". Thst is the second animation of the hook, once it hits it a target the animation resets to show more clearly than the champ is being pulled straight to Blitz. The fact thst it's going through a minion has no bearing because the animation for this doesn't have a hitbox. It is simply the second animation of the hook NOT a second hook to make it look correct. Third. Blitz crank in particulars hook is slightly weird. Since it shoots from his right arm the angle of it is the right of his hitbox instead of straight out allowing for some strange combinations of minion avoidance like you see in OP's picture. If that was a thresh hook for example, it would not have hit the miss fortune. It's a very minute Blitz mechanic. The take away from this is to remember to see in hitboxes. The game doesn't care about what you see. The game isn't programmed directly to what you see. See In hitboxes not in models.

Hibeki5 votes

Regardless of how fat the hitbox is it doesn't excuse this.

Clearly nami would be the one hit as she is closer and should the hitbox be fatter she would ALREADY be hit. It doesnt matter HOW you look at it, there is literally no case in which miss fortune should be hit there. It should be Nami

junglerboy165 votes

Uh, no, actually, she isn't.

Nami is outside the range of the hotbox while MF is within range, but slightly to one side. it's like a T going out, where the top side doesn't quite reach name but the left edge reaches wide enough to clip MF.

      Nami (safe location)

—————MF (gets hit) . . . . | . . . . | . . . . | . . . . | . . . . |

Additionally, most hooks as far as I'm aware do a little area check at max range to one side or the other to make them a little more user friendly, which is why the arms of the T are seemingly so wide. That feature is a lot more visible on Thresh's hook than the others, so there's a chance it only applies to his, but it seems to be present on others like this example.

ChaoticPinecone6 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsOwhCh7IwE

Learn a little more about hitboxes. Then add in viewing angle and the lag in every game from not playing on a LAN, and its perfectly reasonable. Remember, Hitboxes arent random, meaning that MF didnt get hooked instead of Nami because of a coin flip. Its not because of spaghetti code whether or not you dodged or not. Its about hitboxes.

If you get hooked like this, its because you got hit by the hitbox, which isnt fully shown by your model or by the hook animation. Blitz's Q is one of more egregious ones due to the hitbox being a bit larger than the animation and firing from his right hand, but all skillshots behave this way.

Sire Hippington1 votes

pretty great vidio at explaining hitboxes. Though it's wrong at one part as far as i know: Champion hitboxes don't just come in 3 sizes(small, medium, large), they are alot more nuaced than that by now! That was the case in early season, but now hitboxes can vary in size between each single champion, with things like lulu'S wild growth or Cho's ult haveing impact on hitboxes.

And while OPs example can be explained perfectly well with hitboxes, it still raises the question wether it's ok for hitboxes to work that way, or wether hitboxes should get looked at more closely by riot, especially regarding the angle of view that the game has. While skillshots and their hitboxes technically work as intendet, they still often leave people feeling cheated and frustraited.

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

Its a necessary evil.

If you dont like the angle of view because you think its unfair, youre left with a 2d model of the game. Would you rather have a birds-eye view of the game to make it more fair? Do you want hitboxes to match the champion models? Cause then you have weird situations - "I would have hit Anivia, but she flapped her wing in her idle animation at the right time." If you shrink all hitboxes for champions and abilities, skillshots become exponentially harder to hit. Suddenly point-and-click champions are a lot more stronger compared to skillshot reliant counterparts.

I mean, I get it - it sucks when something that looks like it should mix actually hits you. But you have to remember, it works both ways - when youre playing a skillshot champ, sometimes you hit abilities that look like they should miss too. It might feel unfair, but its not. Hitboxes work the same for everybody, and being able to abuse the hitboxes is part of the game.

Sire Hippington1 votes

I never said that i don't like the angle of view, nor that hitboxes should exactly match modles(which would cause alot perfprmance issues). However, there is alot middleground that can be explored. One can try to take the camera angle into acount and try get the position of the hitbox match the visuals. One can try to capture the champion models a bit btter with useing ovals, or maybe even multiple ovals covering differnt axes. It's certainly not easy and probably requires new tech, but i think there is quite some room to improofe clearity on hitboxes.

DJMason884 votes

I honestly wish they would just rework Blitz. I know he shouldn't have priority over people like Urgot, but i just hate his design.

MatthewRT22 votes

the only thing they would really do is a nice VGU and possible changes to his passive and maybe removal of his ults passive

Synnx74 votes

Garbage game and company. No surprise

I7A6X2v23 votes

Blitzcrank full visual & gameplay update (Warwick -scale) are for 2023. Only 6 More years to wait.

Papa Andrei3 votes

Nothing odd at all. If you could see the game based purely on hitboxes (Why hitboxes when they are actually circles lol) it would show the Blitz hook Circle toughing the edge of the MF Circle and thus creating this situation. As was explained before, it doesn't create a whole new hook, it is simply moving the hook onto MF's model because it hit the hitbox.

GGLineaR1 votes

It still would have hit the creep first, dude.

Papa Andrei3 votes

No, cause the Minion hitbox is alot smaller, and thus it missed it, but clipped MF hit box, which is alot larger.

GGLineaR1 votes

Maybe my eyesight is fucked then, I see them getting pulled through the minion.

Papa Andrei2 votes

Yes they get pulled through the minion cause they get pulled directly from the center of their hitbox to Blitz. But the hook 'positioning' moves from the edge of the MF hitbox to the center of it upon hitting the hitbox. thus it pulls through a minion.

KVbqbFsC8e2 votes

Its kinda odd that this isn't brought up more often. This isn't any type of new thing. The hitboxes on those hooks have been broken for years, but it has never been addressed,

Hibeki1 votes

It hasnt been quite as bad over the years, the more they add the worse it gets.

Papa Andrei4 votes

It has been brought up, and explained a thousand times over.

no to toxic2 votes

Be thankful for the hitboxes we have now. There are games out there where you are 90% sure the people working on the hitboxes slept and woke up after release.

Cyber HeroXL1 votes

[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Awv8WPAh,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-02-26T10:58:12.511+0000)

Be thankful for the hitboxes we have now. There are games out there where you are 90% sure the people working on the hitboxes slept and woke up after release.

*overwatch playerbase experiancing flashbacks"

nm10102 votes

Blitz hook has always had a larger hit box on the right side that makes weird hooks like this possible. I'm not saying it isn't a little dumb, but it is (or at least was a few years ago) common knowledge he functions like this.

abbbez2 votes

Honestly when I watched it in slowmo it kinda made sense since Miss Fortunes hit box is larger then a minions' and mf was standing just behind the minion so it should hit her in that case.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

Have a link to a video?

Hibeki1 votes

It's QT's newest video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMyB6c1sexk&t=0s

Moetaro1 votes

Lol, 13 minutes and 18 deaths!

I thought it was that I'm low elo and that my games were a clown fiesta, but it looks like it's not me, it's the game going to hell.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

What time

Hibeki2 votes

3:32

Hexs Fortune1 votes

Might have had to do with lag, but that's a legitimately weird interaction and should be submitted to Bug Report

RavenMagus1 votes

It doesn't look like a weird interaction at all to me.

It misses the smaller minion hitbox, and barely clips the edge of Miss Fortune's hitbox.

The animation looks weird because when the hook hits, it attaches the arm to the center of the unit's hitbox and pulls from there. Any hook that has an animation with the hook attached to the unit afterwards (Amumu's bandage toss, Thresh hook) will look similarly weird if it hits the very edge of a champion's hitbox and then seems to teleport onto the middle of the champion.

JustSaiyan691 votes

Maybe they should change the hitbox to match the image instead of there just being an invisible hit box hitting you seemingly through a minion. Because it's pretty bullshit dodging the image of a hook, but getting hit by the hitbox.

FireDrizzle1 votes

I got hooked through a minion yesterday, and i wasnt playing someone with a large hitbox. I think the game can get confused when you're around minions but im not sure. Like I got hit by a Varus q I dodged 100% but when he started firing i was on a minion. Based on Aram games I would also say Lux's laser can be anywhere and misses hit, hits miss.

TheDelighted1 votes

They should make hitboxes capsules and not spheroids. Spheres are totally misleading and don't mach with the visuals. Especially on humanoid champions.

A Gentle Muslim1 votes

Does someone have the VOD with the timestamp?

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