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An AD Range Only item with a defensive part may help fix the current ADC slump we seem to be in

JavelinJoe··3 votes·612 views

Problem is that most ADCs have no way to counter getting dove upon, and are way to heavily reliant on the other 4 champions to either defend them, or kill their attacker before they die. Currently, with no AD/armor items in existence, AD based assassins and other divers just cut through those squishy marksmen without giving any real way to stop them, or at least even offer a chance to be countered.

Champions like Khazix Talon Rengar Zed and sometimes LeeSin can kill any marksmen in under 2 seconds without giving any chance for return damage. Just in and out. Not even a defensive teammate can really assist too much in saving the ADC from the insta-nuke these champs hit them with. And while Assassins should be strong vs squishier targets, they should at least have some potential to be countered and should need to think if diving the full enemy team to kill the ADC is worth a potential death (unlike how it is now where they easily just go in without even questioning it because they can just as easily get out if needed).

Item changes have also added more benefit for those AD squishy killers. item 3814 and item 3147 have given those AD bursts champions even more power, while at the same time, also gave them better defensive capabilities with some gank assistance/vision control. Marksmen struggle to effectively use item 3814's passive because knowing that after 1.5s you will be targeted by some high burst ability is near impossible. And that the channel can be interrupted mid-way does not help either. item 3147's change also made in and out champions stronger, and their gank success rate increase because of the vision passive. Removing the old passive though took away from the countering potential from the ADC's side. ADC's may be able to get 1 or 2 autos off on one of these champions before they die. So that extra % health damage was very helpful in getting a potential kill trade, rather than just being an uncontested gold source. Now only Vayne and somewhat Twitch can fully utilize the Nightstalker passive on item 3147 as well.

So... a range only, AD item that had some sort of armor based defensive part to it (be it an active, passive, or just a basic stat) could be very beneficial. The AD does not have to be massive or anything, maybe somewhere around 40-50, because the reason this item would be gotten would be more for the defensive capability against AD based damage.

16 Comments

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

JavelinJoe1 votes

marksmen still have one of the highest pick rates of all archetypes

This is only because the very common/popular Meta says the ADC need to be ranged (99% always a marksmen though Ziggs has made some room for other types too like APCs). All the others have 2-3 different archtypes which, depending on team comps, could be played in them.

marksmen will remain priority picks

That is because only 5 or so of them are playable currently with 3 being way higher priority than the rest (Jhin, Ashe, and Varus). Also, no lcs/lck/lima team would ever be willing to play a melee "ADC" stand-in vs a pro marksmen player even for the only reason being the early game melee vs ranged harassment/power difference when they are laned against each other.

Ralanr1 votes

It wouldn't be ranged only. If Riot wanted to make more ranged only items then Cannon would be ranged only. Despite its passive only being useful for ranged champions, it can be bought on melee champions.

JavelinJoe1 votes

My reasoning for why I wanted it ranged only was so the very champions it is meant to semi-counter (somewhat), as well as those higher defensive ones ( Darius Garen Gnar Illaoi RekSai etc... ), could not just build it and become even stronger vs squishier targets.

Ralanr1 votes

Now normally I'd understand your reasoning. But I still remember what ADCs did to Steraks.

JavelinJoe1 votes

That was mainly because of its OP synergy with the old Maw passive. Now that the 2 cant be used together (same unique passive name) there is no reason to get Steraks as the ADC because of how little health (base and from items) you have to generate the shield with. And since you are an ADC, your base AD scaling is not quite as high because you get the damage more from items.

Let's look at 2 champions, Illaoi and Jinx. Both are AD and both could benefit from the defensive shield from Steraks. But, their base AD stats are pretty different. Illaoi starts at 65 and maxes at 145 while Jinx starts with 58.4 and maxes at 99.4. That is close to a B.F. Sword's worth of a damage difference. But the kicker as to why Jinx wont't build it but Illaoi would is that their itemization choices are greatly different. Since Illaoi does not need a lot of AD items to deal damage, she can afford to go more of a defensive build (more health, armor, and MR focused) where as Jinx has to get attack speed, crit, and AD based items to be effective. Because Illaoi is melee, she has to build a lot of defensive related items to survive, Jinx is ranged so she does not need as much because conceptually, she should be safer in fights (which currently isn't the case more often than not).

ADC's dont benefit from Steraks nearly as well as melee/AD based fighters, Juggernauts, etc... who prioritize defensive + health items over raw AD, Crit, and Attack Speed.

Ralanr1 votes

Steraks was still nerfed before the unique passive nerf.

JavelinJoe1 votes

It still does not matter because almost if not every ADC no longer builds it anymore due to the shit stats it would give them since they do not have high base AD/health scalings nor build a lot of health.

Ralanr1 votes

Gee, almost like the first pile of nerfs in response to it were comepletely unnecessary.

Just like how they nerfed Veterans scars to flat from %health so that ADCs could better benefit from it despite ADCs not building into resolve.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Champions like Khazix Talon Zed Rengar and sometimes LeeSin can kill any marksmen in under 2 seconds

That's both untrue since the time it takes to use their spells is already longer than that, but regardless, it's their job to do so.

without giving any chance for return damage.

Okay this is just Bullshit. for the reasons given above.

twochain22 votes

And not to mention you are more than likely to haveal a support to peel for you.

JavelinJoe1 votes

I've seen plenty of games where Rengar, Kha'Zix, Talon, Lee SIn, and Zed delete ADCs almost instantly. For the second part, if it was not clear, I meant return damage by the ADC. I am sure the other teammates can get some damage off, but the ADC usually cant except for maybe a basic attack.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

I've seen plenty of games where Rengar, Kha'Zix, Talon, Lee SIn, and Zed delete ADCs almost instantly. For the second part, if it was not clear, I meant return damage by the ADC. I am sure the other teammates can get some damage off, but the ADC usually cant except for maybe a basic attack.

In those cases thee assassin must be 12/0 at 10 minutes or some shit in which case the adc are a feeder and deserve the L. In the current landscape, ADC's can actually lifesteal faceroll Adc's atm at a point in the game.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

The issue is that games are often decided before ADCs have enough items to be relevant due to the actions of other roles.

ADCs aren't necessarily weak, but they lack influence in the early-game (which is appropriate for late-game carries).

If the game lasts long enough for the ADC to afford their items, they are about as influential as they have usually been.

If you need to survive against divers/assassins long enough for your team to assist you, Bloodthirster and Guardian Angel are extremely useful.

JavelinJoe1 votes

I know, this would allow for some earlier game survivability, while not giving the ADC a whole lot of power late game because of the lower AD stat. This would likely be similar to an Armor verson of item 3156, but instead of a defensive passive and some base stats, it would just be one or the either.

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