The base health increase broke the balancing between ADC

Kowe The Ewok··9 votes·908 views

I'll use Vayne as an example: She a hypercarry who already become sa threat once she hits level 6. From the beginning of time her biggest downside was her low surviveability and constant danger of getting bursted by a Sivir, Caitlyn or Corki (Varus...)- carries which in return were worse lategame.

With the base health increase the danger of getting bursted got significantly lowered since one suddenly needs 160~200+ more health for a kill, that's nearly as much as an additional summoner Heal! This change had a signficant impact on the early game of these hypercarries. Not only have they less danger of being bursted - but their killing potential also increased! E.g. Sivir has a static 9s CD on her Q. Before the preaseon changes hitting a Q usually was enough to force a Vayne back. Now it's an invitation for her to go in and hammer Sivir down while she is defenseless. DPS comes into play much sooner than before and ADC burst lost its value.

PLEASE consider giving Sivir, Varus and Ashe (I'll count that early crit as burst) back some of their early lane dominance ! (Maye even consider improving Caitlyn's Q)

11 Comments

ofart3 votes

I'm not so sure it's as drastic of a change as you think. Graves is doing great and the hypercarry winrates didn't really change. I suppose Jinx is doing a bit better than before though.

I've still found it hell to lane Kog in 4.20 after the MS, health and 25% bonus damage reduction nerfs. AP Kog was a little easier to lane because he has better waveclear but it still feels like he needs something. The ult. nerf really hurt his damage output even though he's still good late.

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

Graves has his E, it might not set him to hypercarry status but holds similiar trading potential (even if just for a short duration).

That's why I didn't list him among the others.

Hayaishi3 votes

Vayne has always shitted on those champions now this just makes it worse.

MattAkhavan2 votes

i thought vayne was bad because it's harder for her to trade in lane because her attack range is low. huh.

cshakes2 votes

It's not actually all that low. Vayne's at 550, which is where a large chunk of ranged champions reside. I think I calculated ranged champion average range, and it was ~540-ish. For ranged ADC, it was higher, ~560 IIRC. The thing with Vayne is that unlike ADCs with lower ranges than her (Sivir, Graves, Lucian...) she has no skillshots that increase her zone of threat (think Sivir's Boomerang Blade). She just autoattacks people.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

This is actually fairly inaccurate.

In fact, champions have, in general, more stats on levels 1 to 3. But, in exchange, after reaching level 4, they have LOWER base stats than before, and reach the amounts they used to have only later on in the game.

Which means, the danger of getting bursted is HIGHER than before after level 4.

Since you use her as an example, Vayne:

Level: 1-3-4-6-15-16-18

HP: Old: 442 - 608 - 691 - 857 - 1604 - 1687 - 1853 New: 498 - 621 - 686 - 826 - 1599 - 1700 - 1909

AD: Old: 53 - 60 - 63 - 70 - 99 - 102 - 109 New: 53 - 58 - 61 - 66 - 97 - 101 - 109

Oh, look, her AD was nerfed on all levels except 1 and 18.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

I never noticed this and I typically read the patch notes fairly thoroughly... When did this change occur? 4.20?

Leaf of the lake2 votes

Yeah. It's the base stat adjustment, where everyone got a buff to their stats at lv1 due to the new growth stat formula.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

Oh I did read that, I assumed it didn't change anything though, as ad would be increased proportionally as well sort of nullifying the effect (although it wouldn't, since you buy ad early and use ad runes/masteries).

It would also explain my terrible losing streak shortly after the patch, as I mainly play caitlyn and mage mids (who similarly looked to punish melee mids pre 6 in order to establish a lead, if melee mids survive to 6 easier, mages are relatively weaker) and thus my mmr probably had to adjust significantly to put my weaker strategy against weaker opponents (it's sickening playing games where I score more than double the cs of anyone else btw, one game I checked and I had 220cs mid and my adc had 54...).

Thanks for noticing, hopefully it can be fixed, only small buffs should be necessary.

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

Well health increased proportionally - but base damage on abilities didn't ;) Thus you roughly dish out the same damage than before but everybody is much tankier. It's a big difference wether you can burst that Vayne for 500/600 with one combo or 500/760. ( "/" = out of)

Kingsgrave1 votes

Well health increased proportionally - but base damage on abilities didn't ;) Thus you roughly dish out the same damage than before but everybody is much tankier. It's a big difference wether you can burst that Vayne for 500/600 with one combo or 500/760. ( "/" = out of)

But base AD is higher overall, doesnt help too much but it helps somewhat

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