why do 90% of top lane pantheons i see get fed?
I wonder why
I wonder why
Strong early game and people are usually too stupid / stubborn to just play safe and not feed him.
Nail. Head.
Even when people DO play safe, though, he can still tower dive and Clickstun+1 shot spear everyone to the ground.
If he can do that and not die its because he:
or
how exactly do you avoid getting harrassed and zoned by his 4 second, point-click harrass?
give up cs when you have to.
freeze lane by your turret.
Am I wrong to assume you go tank, tower hug, and take him out when the jungle comes?
nope. 100% correct. people are just being dramatic.
Devils Advocate question, whats the advantage in avoiding confrontation so as not to feed him when doing so gives him free farming of the lane anyway?
Pantheon generally wants to get ahead like an assassin to stay useful as long as possible. Unlike assassins though, his lategame isn't quite as good because his way of getting in is usually either flash, walking at you, or mandrop which is unreliable at best if the enemy team is grouping. He has no real outs once he's in so if he did in fact build damage he has one shot to kill his target then he's dead.
It's not really so much you're giving him freefarm as much as you're freezing as close to your turret as possible so your jungler can gank him. He's pretty easy to gank since he has no real escape if you're holding the lane in a good spot. Ending lane without giving him a kill and letting him be up 20-30 cs is fine. He needs those kills and whatever you chose will likely outscale him anyways.
Think of going against him like you're playing
against any champion in the game. You know you can't duel anyone until at least level 6. Because of this you need to play smart and collect what farm is safe to get. You chose utility and defense in the early game instead of raw damage in order to survive the lane.
tl;dr just think +3 every time you go for CS and around the 15-20 minute mark you'll be able to +6 that panth.
Not many can handle his crits early game. It is unfortunate...and overpowered.
Luckily, his end game is kinda garbage.
Not many can handle his crits early game. It is unfortunate...and overpowered.
Luckily, his end game is kinda garbage.
not really, what makes his endgame good is how fed he gets early
He needs to be ridiculously fed to be useful beyond being a stun bot late game. Doing that starves his team of kills, which doesn't work out well once he is singled out and killed.
Or you can play Assassin Pantheon- his E does 26/43/60/76/93 (+100% bonus AD) per strike for 3 strikes. (.25 interval with a .75 cast time skill). Then you scale massively. :D And people die. Or maybe not >.>
His E is honestly my least liked ability on him. It forces him to stand still to deal the most amount of his damage, yet he benefits more from moving in fights.
Because people suck at this game?
In all seriousness, people don't understand a few simple concepts:
Are you suggesting people make sensible decisions? Are you sure you're playing the same game? kappa
Why does
win trades so heavily early game? Same reason. Early game champions have an easier time winning fights early in lane and can just snowball off of that.
probably because people forget
exists
that is an odd looking sword
Losing lane top? BETTER BUY MORE AD.
He's the definition of an early-game champion. Here is his win-rate by game duration graph: http://i.imgur.com/hH6kpnL.jpg
A lot of people just refuse to even consider playing safe until they've fed beyond repair. Sometimes, I can hear thirsty Riven/Fiora players' internal screams: "If I just keep jumping onto him, It'll work this time!!!" While they are like 1/10/0 at 15 minutes in...
Hard to play safe with point and click spears that do massive damage, not to mention a point and click stun that's always followed by massive aoe damage. Fuck, even if you try and farm under tower he'll just poke you down with spears and then dive you with his passive, and towers already do worthless damage.
Strong early game? Pls, his kit is toxic, and has no counterplay other than staying out of range, which would make it impossible to farm seeing as how most top laners are melee.
I can hear thirsty Riven/Fiora players' internal screams: "If I just keep jumping onto him, It'll work this time!!!" While they are like 1/10/0 at 15 minutes in...
If they played defensively and tried to passively farm only going for the minions the farthest away from him, he'll just throw spears until they're low enough to go all in on.
[{quoted}](name=Red Death LoL,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Asa25W2u,comment-id=001a0000,timestamp=2016-03-31T02:39:00.671+0000)
Hard to play safe with point and click spears that do massive damage, not to mention a point and click stun that's always followed by massive aoe damage. Fuck, even if you try and farm under tower he'll just poke you down with spears and then dive you with his passive, and towers already do worthless damage.
Strong early game? Pls, his kit is toxic, and has no counterplay other than staying out of range, which would make it impossible to farm seeing as how most top laners are melee.
If they played defensively and tried to passively farm only going for the minions the farthest away from him, he'll just throw spears until they're low enough to go all in on.
Pantheon's passive is useless against any champion that doesn't rely on an auto attack to burst/trade. I won't deny he's a threat but there are a number of ways to deal with his pressure

I've seen many match ups where he simply runs out of mana trying to poke someone thats just got good sustain.

He will always show up sometimes when the item meta favors him, but as it's been said he's just an assassin with a click point stun. He doesn't really bring what other top laners do late game. (Strong AoE CC, constant AoE damage, unfocusable tank...)
strong early game to make up for his god-awful late game
its not that his late game is bad. its that he needs to pay a VERY heavy price for it. As far as early game is concerned: ive noticed that panth players are dedicated mains; hes not a generalist nor niche. Also, people underestimate his E crit and block patterns. ive seen some smart guy playing safe, buying smart etc.. but those are veryyy rare breeds.
Stronger early game
Cz some idiot just bought
, joins queue & lost mid to someone in Blind Pick, and goes top with him anyway.
Nobody knows about his execution passive, being crit early game hurts a lot.

He's a chef you clown
Chefs don't get fed, they feed people.
[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Asa25W2u,comment-id=001b00000000,timestamp=2016-03-31T02:54:59.864+0000)
Chefs don't get fed, they feed people.
CHEFS LIKE TO EAT, TOO!
Literaly any toplane tank cant be killed by him, he will fall off while his tank enemy is more relevant come teamfights.
It's odd, most of the Panths I see top actually feed.
Now most of the Panths I see in the jungle get fed.
Because he's a baker and can feed himself.
Because 90% of people don't understand his early power and after he gets one kill they blind run into him 4 more times? What levels of play are you looking at? Because it must be sub gold.
because most people dont know what they are doing top and pantheon early game is very strong to make up for his falling off hard late game
1.
2.
3.armor quintessences
4. Your W
5. ???
6. Profit.
He will do laughable damage, you have tons of pots, he has to spam, otherwise your passive kicks in.
Did I mention that your poke is practically better because he is so squishy ?
And that even if somehow he denies some cs, you are still always relevant thanks to your ult ?
I think this is saying more about how OP
is...
Cuz his early game power is stupid
Some people like to play this game for fun, and hiding from panth like a little puss isn't fun. These people would prefer to try their hand at fighting Panth first, then consider playing safe after they've died like 2 or 3 times.
Beacuse he is a baker.
It's easy to get fed when you bake your own food.
He is a bit overtuned at the moment, and it's why we're seeing him so much lately.
I've never been a fan of Pantheon, but he's not as bad as long as you understand that most champions are going to lose in a duel against him early game. You can trade, but make it short and sweet. What I see a lot of top laners do it is underestimate his passive, extend the trade, then realize they're not going to win and try to escape. They end up dying. One death and you pretty much have to cower under your tower to avoid him because his pokes hurt so much more with a lead.
You don't always get the counter pick position, but almost anyone has a chance to survive the laning phase against him. If you're
or
, you might want to think about asking your mid laner to trade with you or play extremely safely as you're at a disadvantage either because of your kit or because of balance shifts on top of that.
Also I wish people would stop saying Pantheon's late game is trash. He's not a late game champion, but he's far from the worst late game champion to be playing, especially when you consider how powerful his early game is and how one-sided games are today.
Honestly, Pantheon pretty much counters every core top laner right now. I think most of the problem is that his Q is a homing missle rather than a skillshot. You just get completely poked out of lane from damage that cannot be avoided, so you back off and try to farm under turret, but you can't even do that cause he's poked you too low and tower dives you.
OR.
You challenge him and play aggressive to get him to play more safely, then you make one wrong move and he combos you from 50%-0
The only champ I've really had success against him on is with Poppy. I can use my buckler to break his shield then do meaningful trades.
because pantheon's late game is literally trash, so his early game is very strong and most top laners are tanks/fighters who does not have significant dueling power/tankyness in early levels, so they cant fight pantheon and they got poked out.
Try having one on your team. Guaranteed not to get fed.