I like how kha zix gets buffed and wukong nerfed.

option paralysis·Sep 26, 2018·40 votes·12,886 views

Wukong was nerfed because "one shot from invisibility with no counterplay". Remind me again what does kha do ? Also theres no wukong players in high elo, whereas kha zix has and he was already a good champ before that. And he has tools to escape after one shot, where wukong most of the time cant. If you say wukong has aoe, yeah but you wont die unless he uses EQ on you too. Same thing with rengar/kayn/talon, they all do a better job than wukong and yet they get buffed in the same patch wukong got back to back nerfs.

Then, when wukong mains say we want a rework to make him more skilled, riot says china doesn't so fuck you. Ok, lemme wait another 4 years for wukong to be in the patch notes.

79 Comments

JimmySteaksSep 26, 201818 votes

Wukong has cc though. He knocks you up while he does it. Khazix is kind of op though. The jump reset.

BLIGHTBRINGERSep 26, 201814 votes

Who needs CC when you have 2 second 90% Slow LUL, on the evolved W.

GeauxxSep 26, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AqN3kI0n,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-09-26T12:44:42.884+0000)

Who needs CC when you have 2 second 90% Slow LUL, on the evolved W.

tbh, your point doesn't help the argument, since no one in their right mind would evolve W at level 6. unless they are a pretty decent amount behind.

BLIGHTBRINGERSep 26, 20184 votes

It's not actually a bad choice considering it allows the rest of his team to catch up and follow up with more CC and more damage.

saltranSep 26, 20181 votes

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that Kha evolves Q first to have more dmg on his invades.

agac4234Sep 27, 20182 votes

yeah but who team figtts at lvl 6?

RekSai CoffeeCoSep 26, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Wukong has cc though. He knocks you up while he does it. Khazix is kind of op though. The jump reset.

Remind me again what Kha's evolved w does again?

hhaavviikkSep 26, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=RekSai CoffeeCo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AqN3kI0n,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-09-26T12:51:20.322+0000)

Remind me again what Kha's evolved w does again?

hah, comparing AOE slow to a AOE knock-up with a very high AD ratio, yeah right tots the same!

Sharpest glassesSep 26, 20182 votes

Just saying you can react to Wukong R (you can flash during his E travel time). Granted if you arent afk brain.

MarothennanSep 26, 20183 votes

you can flash during kha's e travel time too? but wait that doesn't fit the narative

Sharpest glassesSep 26, 20182 votes

lmao, its true.

agac4234Sep 27, 20181 votes

u can flash kha W or E. but u cant always have flash up can you? so saying just flash it doesnt work becuase flash has a way bigger coolwodn then wukong R or E you flash now he will just get you in another mineut if he used R or just 10 seconds if he didnt

Sharpest glassesSep 27, 20181 votes

yeah, but you have other option to prevent the "OS" (he really cant) like positionning, tabi, support (kit and items)...

HÔPÊSep 26, 20187 votes

They buffed Kha bc he has got a new skin and Riot is disgusting. They want money more than having a balanced game.

five oh tree Sep 26, 20186 votes

Alright kha'zix buff is the epitome of a brainless decision

However, do not try to justify the state wukong was in pre nerf. He was monstrous, and his one shot from stealth was on a basic ability. On top of all of that, he had the winrate, playrate, AND banrate to back up the nerfs.

Sharpest glassesSep 26, 20183 votes

no, his banrate was low, his pickrate was average. stop lies.

agac4234Sep 27, 20181 votes

his pickrate was around 20 to 30% which is alot his ban rate wasnt high becuase they where other champions that got banned like irelia and talon but they both got nerfed

Sharpest glassesSep 27, 20181 votes

tough u were talking about Wukong, then i saw 20%-30 % pickrate.

ValiantKillerSep 27, 20186 votes

Gosh how many times i hit my face reading the comments about how Wukong got CC and Kha doesn't, it doesn't matter. Riot said they nerfed him due to the damage from his hide and not due to his CC, which what Khazix doing right now by one shot you out of hide.

My god people, read.

BestealSep 27, 20185 votes

For all you people under the impression that Wukong is a bruiser. First of all, Wukong is a bad bruiser. To be played bruiser, Wukong requires one of 4 win conditions:

Jungle Pressure, and a lot of it
Braindead enemy laner
God-like skills in comparison to enemy laner
Extremely favorable matchup The reason being that Wukong is missing the sustain of a bruiser, the defensive steroid of a bruiser, the base stats(?) of a bruiser, the ability of a bruiser to scale past out of his terrible lane phase, a bruiser's high base damages, and All of the above, combined with his high AD ratios, make him far better as an assassin than as a bruiser. Don't get me wrong, bruiser is viable, but extremely conditional.

ValiantKillerSep 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

For all you people under the impression that Wukong is a bruiser. First of all, Wukong is a bad bruiser. To be played bruiser, Wukong requires one of 4 win conditions:

Jungle Pressure, and a lot of it

Braindead enemy laner

God-like skills in comparison to enemy laner

Extremely favorable matchup The reason being that Wukong is missing the sustain of a bruiser, the defensive steroid of a bruiser, the base stats(?) of a bruiser, the ability of a bruiser to scale past out of his terrible lane phase, a bruiser's high base damages, and All of the above, combined with his high AD ratios, make him far better as an assassin than as a bruiser. Don't get me wrong, bruiser is viable, but extremely conditional.

All bruisers make the same damage when build full assassin just like wukong, example : LeeSin Diana etc

The only thing that make wukong better assassin is his hide and the things that make other champion better as bruiser the in kit shield or sustain healing.

BestealSep 27, 20182 votes

Well, that is the point I'm trying to make.

ValiantKillerSep 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Well, that is the point I'm trying to make.

Worst thing people think that wukong was released when there was something called diver, he was released as top laner champion and he never got any rework so he does fit in unrole like Teemo Fiddlesticks and Singed

HayaishiSep 26, 20184 votes

K6 is also meant to be an assassin Wukong isn't.

Blue Moon WolfSep 26, 20189 votes

True, but currently he can't function outside of playing like an Assassin. It's the same reason why Tank Assassins were a thing before the Assassin update. I'm all for them making him work more like a Bruiser as that's my favorite way to play him (/only way I play him tbh... I don't like playing assassins ._.), but that needs to come from an update to his kit, not through nerfs and buffs.

AmWhaleIRLSep 26, 20184 votes

It's because Kha'Zix has a new asking coming out and this is how Riot pushes their content.

painkillsSep 26, 20183 votes

Unfortunately, many of these decisions come from "What would be fun to watch for Worlds" perspectives. Which is completely subjective and puts the games balance in jeopardy. Who is to say that Wukong clone jukes arent fun to watch? Why isnt Maokai CC chain fun to watch? Why is Reksai tunnel shenanigans fun to watch? Why is Khazix jump in, stealth, fight, stealth more fun to watch than any of the others?

Sharpest glassesSep 26, 20186 votes

i mean... Wukong is fun to watch. Caps on Wu was fun, and thats what hyped the match.

tanks arent tho

OHminusSep 27, 20184 votes

Caps on Wu was fun

But the problem is, Caps beat a Yas as Wu

That's a big no no for Rito James

Sharpest glassesSep 26, 20182 votes

Wukong was nerfed cause he was an issue for low elo (players don't know how to lane, support have no clue about peeling, adc no self awarness...).

Was barely viable in high elo.

Then, when wukong mains say we want a rework to make him more skilled, riot says china doesn't so fuck you.

Really want to know how they asked their sh*t. Almost sure Wukong CN players arent pleased with his current state.

Blue Moon WolfSep 26, 20182 votes

They mentioned the buff was due to Kha being right on the edge of being viable for worlds. Pretty much the Rioter mentioned that champs get buffs for worlds if they are either almost viable for worlds or if the pros have been skirmishing them but are not quite on the level needed to be playable there. He also mentioned that those buffs can get reverted easily if they cause a problem afterwards. Though why they nerfed Wukong when he was likely going to show up in worlds this year... I know he was doing overly well, but it would have been cool to see happen at least once T.T

The EcdysiastSep 26, 20182 votes

The difference is that Kha'zix is supposed to be an assassin, while Wukong is supposed to be a diver. There's no reason Wukong should be able to act like Kha'zix.

It's all well and good for a champion to find a niche build that makes them unique from others in their class, but when they can just completely build another class's items and act different from intended, it's a problem.

If you want him to keep his damage, you'd have to ask that he get the cloak removed. Because his cloak, unlike Kha'zix's, is not for sneaking up on the enemy and assassinating them. It's for re-positioning and escaping.

Sharpest glassesSep 26, 20186 votes

If you want him to keep his damage, you'd have to ask that he get the cloak removed. Because his cloak, unlike Kha'zix's, is not for sneaking up on the enemy and assassinating them. It's for re-positioning and escaping.

Escaping what ?? with a 1,5 sec invisibility ??? Wukong use his cloak for sneaking up on the ennemy and assassinate them too.

BestealSep 27, 20183 votes

The only possible way I could see Wukong's W as an escape would be if he came with a speedboost or blink. Oh wait. It doesn't. It's straight up used as a heavily downgraded version of Kha6 ult. In fact, they both do the same thing, except that kha does it much better. Stealth, jump in, auto, point click ability. But the difference is, while kha6 can stealth again, or can jump away, Wu has to either accept his death or hope to the gods that his 1 sec knock up of any extremely close enemies and the 20% speed boost he gets in that second are enough to get away. Let em tell you something here: 20% is nowhere near enough to get away from an enemy with a half functioning brain.

agac4234Sep 27, 20181 votes

here is the thing wukong is unlucky if he doesnt kill the guy he jumped in for and if he does kill him he will still be able to get away becuase his team is probibly close by and he is pretty tanky but kha in the other hand will just get oneshot and might not even kill his target becuase he can just stun the enemy team and do like 800 dmg everyone in the enemy team in 1 sec

Sharpest glassesSep 27, 20182 votes

ITs not unlucky.

If ennemy team is decent he wont OS anyone... mainly after last nerf. they're support (their kit and items), can build tabi, stopwatch, can flash during E ...

U can react. Kayn kill hella faster than Wukong for exemple.

agac4234Sep 27, 20181 votes

blue kayn cant kill tanks but wukong can, red kayn can kills tanks but cant 1 shot adcs wukong can, kayns early game is weak wukons isnt

Sharpest glassesSep 27, 20183 votes

blue kayn cant kill tanks but wukong can

[sg-miss-fortune]

agac4234Sep 27, 20181 votes

have y ever fought a wukong as a semi tank? he doesnt die and he has dmg wtf can u do vs something like that. and blue kayn has no way of killing a tank

Sharpest glassesSep 27, 20183 votes

You never played Wukong for sure. Cause Wukong can do nothing against tanks. Wukong tank (even semi tank) is trash, they're a reason high elo wukong build him glass canon (he has no cc beside ult and base damage are too low).

I never disagreed with blue kayn against tank. i play both i know what's true or not.

agac4234Oct 3, 20181 votes

qhwn i say a tank i dont mean like amumu or some thing like that am talking about irelia jax, jarvin and ppl like that. wukong was just too strong pre nerf. and tbh they should just rework him because he has a shit design and i feel bad for wukong mains becuase if the champion gets good everyone complains about him and if his bad his tottaly useless

Al HavocSep 26, 20181 votes

Wukong is suppose to be a kind of bruiserish engage, not an assasin, and due to his passive and the items he can build (cleaver) he is relatively tanky to. He isn't meant to one shot people. Comparing wukong to khazix is like comparing apples to oranges but the apple can defy logic and become an orange if it wanted to.

As a kha'zix main, i think he's in a relatively /decent balanced stated right now, he definitely didn't need a buff but i don't think it will make him op.

BestealSep 27, 20184 votes

They key word here is "supposed" to. The problem here is, that Wukong is very different from your conventional bruiser. Most bruisers have some sort of 'Gimmick' to their kit. Darius bleed, Fiora vitals, Garen villain, Olaf and attack speed... the list goes on. Wu has none of that, and also none of the sustain most bruisers have. Unlike most other bruisers, he has terrible trade patterns, is easily bullied out of lane, AND is heavily outscaled. Add to the fact that Riot loves nerfing base damages instead of ratios on him and we see the outcome. Bad bases and very good scaling. idk what Riot expected, but Wu players like to take advantage of his scalings and build assassin. He's a much better assassin than bruiser, and the only time you will ever build bruiser on the champ is if 4 of the enemy team are bulky or if your team lacks a frontline.

TegashSep 27, 20181 votes

Khazix is weak early and only does supreme damage if you run away from your teammates and minions like a ninny.

lil kodaSep 28, 20181 votes

why do you people pretend like he NEEDS is iso damage, his passive plus duskblade procs with his ulty are easily enough to oneshot any squishy, iso or no iso

TegashSep 28, 20181 votes

You're right, his ulti is really strong- OH WAIT, he doesn't HAVE his ulti between 1 and 5!

If you're playing a damage jungler, invade him and stop his snowball!

If you're playing a tank jungler, HE LITERALLY DOESN'T MATTER TO YOU. You outscale him.

As for Duskblade, that's a problem with the ITEM, so it's the ITEM that needs to be nerfed. It's what Riot has done with Ezreal and every item HE broke, so they should do it with ever other case of item abuse as well.

lil kodaSep 28, 20181 votes

if you invade khazix solo as a jungler then ur iso'd, then you die. good try tho. and riot isnt smart enough to nerf Dblade, so that isnt going to happen. and what does it matter if u outscale kha as a tank jungler? hes going to one shot your backline whether you are there or not.

TegashSep 29, 20181 votes

If you make no attempt to capitalize on your opponent's weaknesses, then you are literally handing them the win. That's all.

SkullgettiSep 28, 20181 votes

You forgot the fact that kha'zix had a pretty nice looking worlds skin in the making, has to sell somehow :D Don't mind the coincidental before skins viability of garen, darius, Jinx,....

JackMcSnipeyzOct 3, 20181 votes

Wukong needs a rework, keep his engager teamfight style while removing his old abilities that dont mash with the new league design. Until then he will be in this limbo between assassin and engager and that's just no healthy.

Kha was buffed for worlds, but wrongly buffing him isnt an excuse to not nerf wukong (in the first place).