Maybe Riot won't ignore us this time- let's talk, even though it's futile, about Cassiopeia.

TheUltimateSpear··12 votes·949 views

Cassiopeia

**Aspect of the Serpent (Passive) 100 stack bonus' Twin Fang heal AP ratio reduced to .06 from .1 Twin Fang (E) mana restore on kill reduced 1.5% from 3% of maximum mana. **

Her most recent nerfs on PBE. Now, I'm not really going to say much about her balance. (I thought she was fine, at least not at the top most powerful champs that might need some nerfs, but meh) What am I going to say, once again, is that her rework design is. Not. good.

Her passive- A ball of stats. It's boring- you raise it's power by waiting. And, the inflated AP is countered by low ratios. Not to mention, it's not dynamic like other evolution passives and it doesn't feel close to her character. Lot's of downsides. The plus sides are the free CDR (debatably, see ball of stats) and the healing- which, despite it's flaws, actually might serve Cassiopeia well. With her short range she doesn't get much chance to retaliate against longer range mages or bursty assassins. (Both of these vary somewhat, of course, but you get the idea.) And with her kit so centered around her Twin Fang to function, the healing's really beneficial for her to endure poke, which she might be forced to do through much of the laning phase. However, by gutting her Q and W damage you only exacerbated her short range, meaning it's mostly impossible for Cassiopeia to try to keep up with poke, which she could before. And because of that, the healing's really nice, perhaps even necessary for her to function.

Another thing you added was the mana restore on Twin Fang. With her Deadly Cadence passive gone, and her mana costs even more constraining than before, this was a reasonable inclusion, because with how she works now she needs some way to regain a steady amount of mana to sustain her spamming and mana costs. I thought Deadly Cadence was a better, and much more dynamic mana sustain passive. Cassiopeia had to keep up with her spellcasts and be really focused to get the most out of it. With her new mana restore on E... not so much. But, hey, it's good enough, so I won't count it as a criticism.

The thing is, though, these 2 things, the mana restore and innate spellvamp, are the only good things/salvageable things in the Cassiopeia rework, and they are things getting hit with nerfs. Hell, even then, they have design problems, what with making Cassiopeia feel frustrating to play against as her health gain and mana restore feel very forgiving for little effort when playing against Cassiopeia, regardless of if it's true.

TL;DR- revert the Cassiopeia rework. Hell, or at least give some power back to her Q and W and R- so basically anything of her kit that's not her now overloaded E. With all of her power shoved into her E, she's very binary. I understand Cassiopeia was and is a duelist champion, but back when her kit had power spread across the board she wasn't so binary, and she didn't need so many stats and bonuses to function and be effective as a champion.

And, if you, Riot, don't want to listen... Maybe it's all just as well. Her fans, even her new ones, are getting tired of these nerfs, and when they don't have reason to play Cassiopeia for power, they won't play her at all, and then no one will because she's NOT. FUN.

19 Comments

Rico Nasty5 votes

The thing is, there was no need to nerf her. She already has too many overwhelming problems, and they just got worse. -ZERO mobility. -Shitty laning phase. -Extremely squishy. -Once you poison people, you are forced to go in, and if you don't, oh boy, you are really fucked. Which leads me to my next point.. -Cass may have low mana costs, but she HAS to spam them in order to even function in lane. Cass relies on being spammy, otherwise her passive, E, and ult are useless. -Her skillcap is extremely high. You have to know all of her mechanics, when to use them, and how to use them. You have to understand EVERYTHING about her to use her.

Seriously Riot, she is worse than pre-rework. Please revert it, you have done no justice to her whatsoever.

Toothierosprey34 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Velvets,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aq51bKAX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-05-16T00:39:46.560+0000)

-Shitty laning phase.

Her laning phase is amazing. If your enemy laner steps out of line they get hit by a w q e e e. Sure, it takes lots of mana, but once you get a double dorans and tear, mana isn't much of a problem.

Rico Nasty1 votes

Enemy jungler will camp you. Very squishy. Idk where this "she has a good laning phase" is coming from.

Toothierosprey32 votes

Her good laning phase comes from the fact that she can do huge amounts of damage with no items. Any Cassiopea can q then e e e to chunk half your health at level 2. Once she gets her ult she has no trouble 2v1ing as well. Lots of good laners like pantheon are easy to gank, they just have to ward.

TheUltimateSpear2 votes

{quoted}

Her good laning phase comes from the fact that she can do huge amounts of damage with no items. Any Cassiopea can q then e e e to chunk half your health at level 2. Once she gets her ult she has no trouble 2v1ing as well. Lots of good laners like pantheon are easy to gank, they just have to ward.

I'll have to agree here. Cassiopeia does shit tons of damage in the laning phase if she can get it off. However, her mana costs being jacked up really hurt. I'd say it's decent, even if only because she gets stronger as time goes on.

The thing is though, Cassiopeia's laning phase was NOT made any more bearable, which is one of the excuses they gave for the rework- to make her laning less oppressive and frustrating. And they failed. Cassiopeia may have constantly harassed you before, but now she can chunk half your health at level 2 like you said. She punishes mistakes EXTREMELY hard, even harder than before. And, from what people on the boards have said, laning against her feels even worse than it did before. So what was the point then, you know?

CreationFlaw4 votes

I mean, Cass can also get like 1400 AP and two shot people who have 90ish mr if she gets fed.

TheUltimateSpear2 votes

{quoted}

I mean, Cass can also get like 1400 AP and two shot people who have 90ish mr if she gets fed.

I mean, if you actually read the post, the majority of my frustration wasn't about her power.

Canastus4 votes

That's absolutely false. She already lost 12% of her lategame ap from those changes to the way the drake buff is being calculated, then there's the issue of her being unable to obtain even 1k ap without building purely glasscannon items. Just getting something like Abyssal scepter or Rylais' is enough to make it impossible for her to even acquire a 4 digit number.

She was nerfed nonstop and the next set of changes is going to remove whatever sustain she had left. She'll be downright unusuable in lane once that happens.

EchoZeero4 votes

{quoted}

Just getting something like Abyssal scepter or Rylai's is enough to make it impossible for her to even acquire a 4 digit number.

Ignoring item 3041 , item 3116 is the 4th item with the most AP after item 3285 item 3089 item 3157 so you logic is flawed here.

The Queen Viper3 votes

Nope, she can't anymore ... and unless you are playing against bots, going full glass-cannon is not viable on her anyways.

Nimba3 votes

Somehow her passive is worse than Syndra's and that's almost impressive.

TheUltimateSpear1 votes

{quoted}

Somehow her passive is worse than Syndra's and that's almost impressive.

Exactly. They both involve waiting around and arbitrarily getting bonuses/effects. But at least Syndra's fits her as a character.

Byakuya Kuchiki1 votes

{quoted}

Somehow her passive is worse than Syndra's and that's almost impressive.

what is syndra's

Nimba1 votes

{quoted}

what is syndra's

Her abilities gain extra effects as they're maxed out. Like OP said, at least it fits her as a character but having to wait around to get the most out of your passive feels lame compared to others who's kits are almost built on their passive.

metaworldpeace103 votes

Ya, its pretty sad. The majority of the community foresaw the doom of the Cassiopeia Rework. We told Stashu time and time again that this rework was just a "ball of stats" and that sticking 100% of her power into her passive and E was a bad design. We also told Stashu that she will see LCS play and then repeatedly get nerfed until she is utterly useless. Stashu has been MIA for MONTHS now and Cassiopeia is still a mess. Terrible rework, terrible communication and a rushed job on a Champion who is soon to be garbage.

pWasHere3 votes

As long as she is a half snake mage and Mythic Cass is still a skin, I will probably play her.

TheUltimateSpear2 votes

{quoted}

As long as she is a half snake mage and Mythic Cass is still a skin, I will probably play her.

I really like her mythic skin too. It really shows her gracefulness.

Leu072 votes

They say she makes good trades and sustains well, what about Chogath ? he can make really good trades with his knockup, silence and nice burst. 5 seconds later he is completly fine with his passive, as he has healed and gotten his mana back by doing what EVERYONE must do, last-hit creeps.

kneel on Ice1 votes

She was one of the few mages who were able to survive in this tank meta and they nerfed her gg RITO ! DONT YOU SEE THAT FUCKING SEJUANI AND CHOGATH AND EVERY SINGLE TANK NEEDS NERF

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