So I just played as Cassiopeia in the first time in months.

TheUltimateSpear·Nov 7, 2015·75 votes·6,123 views

Aaaaaaand I'm sorry to say but the Twin Fang machine gun still doesn't really do it for me. Or for any Cass main, for that matter. I mean, after all, her playrate collapsed after Cassiopeia was nerfed out of freelo tier. Not to mention several other unwarranted nerfs later her winrate collapsed as well.

I just gotta say Riot, you reaaaaallly ought to consider looking into Cass aside from mere number changes, because her ~~trashed~~ new kit did not fix any of her old problems, and adds new one. (Feast or famine passive, binary gameplay, toxic to play against, or should I say, MORE toxic to play against for the people who say Cass was toxic prerework, she's worse now)

You know, Riot, if people wanted to play a mana stacking DPS hyperscaling mage, they could play Ryze! (Although he's been through the ringer his fair shair too.)

And the funny thing is, Riot, you've already admitted Cass isn't in a good spot!

Just... for the love of God. If or when you touch Cass again, please change her kit and not just her numbers: because her fanbase has said a 1,000 times over we do not like it. At this point I don't think anyone would be mad if you said it'd be a while for you to work on Cassiopeia. For me it'd be reassurance enough that you'd eventually fix this mess... I;d be relieved to know you'd work on her at all- especially considering how completely unprofessional Riot Stashu was with this "rework." You know, trashing Cassiopeia and waltzing off with empty promises and just taking up Fiora. Oh, and not to mention, other Rioters have to explain this for him, because heaven forbid Riot Stashu actually have to acknowledge his mistakes!

Just... come on. Give us something, anything.

111 Comments

Biff ManlyNov 7, 201518 votes

Riot has attempted to delete Cass so hard that she became Ass.

Very similar to another Kass we know, actually.

AztersNov 8, 20152 votes

Lmfao, get upvoted to Mount Everest.

Lime JoshNov 7, 201517 votes

first time playing cass in months, yet claims to be cass main

/thread

OperationDEEZ1Nov 7, 201543 votes

Doesn't mean he doesn't have a point.

AbyssphereNov 7, 201541 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lime Josh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-07T04:04:43.842+0000)

first time playing cass in months, yet claims to be cass main

/thread

Obviously a former Cass main.

Heckin SupportNov 7, 201512 votes

Shows how bad a rework job it was to the point where it turned off a main of that champion.

Blade of JusticNov 7, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Shows how bad a rework job it was to the point where it turned off a main of that champion.

Just like me and Sion

freeformlineNov 7, 20154 votes

At least they made it clear that his kit wasn't going to be anything like it used to be. I miss old AD Sion, the real Undead Juggernaut!

Blade of JusticNov 7, 20154 votes

{quoted}

At least they made it clear that his kit wasn't going to be anything like it used to be. I miss old AD Sion, the real Undead Juggernaut!

The odd part is that the one skill that Morello complained about was the one skill they kept.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Corrupto123Nov 7, 201513 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lime Josh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-07T04:04:43.842+0000)

first time playing cass in months, yet claims to be cass main

/thread

former cass main going bad due to rework

CanastusNov 7, 201511 votes

Riot couldn't care less about the champion considering the ongoing negligence they've shown so far for her, they didn't even care to buff her mana-regen like for everyone else during the latest wave of pre-season updates. Infact it's been over half a year since she received any changes at all and those were strictly nerfs which only served to make her utterly unviable.

Also let's not forget that it's been 33 months since her last skin-release aswell. She was turned into the next Urgot and then shoved under the carpet just to rot for all of eternity. However the smell of that corpse has become too worse to ignore at this point.

CanidaeNov 7, 20151 votes

Just want to note that they didn't buff mana regen for quite a few mid-lane mages. Ahri Lux Leblanc Viktor Vladimir

Synx7Nov 7, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Just want to note that they didn't buff mana regen for quite a few mid-lane mages.

Vladimir doesn't use mana. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Axis the DragonNov 7, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Just want to note that they didn't buff mana regen for quite a few mid-lane mages.

Ahri's still fine even with a mana regen nerf

Lux will only feel the nerf before she gets Athene's, really

Leblanc kinda needed some more mana gating considering she deletes people even if they have MR

If Viktor ever needed a nerf of tuning change, it'd be mana regen

Vlad doesn't use mana????

CanidaeNov 8, 20152 votes

Completely forgot that Vlad uses blood (or sumfin, idk never played him), but the point was that mana using midlaners in general didn't really get mana buffs (probably cause of doran's ring changes).

Axis the DragonNov 8, 20153 votes

The difference between the ones you mentioned (sans Vlad) and Cassiopeia is that Cass can still go OOM even with a Tear and Chalice. Nearly no other midlaner (except maybe Anivia and Swain) can go OOM that fast.

mtAkFzLsUSNov 7, 20157 votes

Cassiopeia is my highest mastery champion, so I have a valid opinion when i say Cassiopeia is completely retarded (not op) atm and i would like the old one back.

LVL 5 PORONov 7, 20155 votes

Her early game is complete shit. I'm not saying she should be strong early but damn, its hard to believe Rito is ok with her being that bad.

Battlecast SonaNov 8, 20152 votes

intentional. Pre-rework cassiopeia's level 2 was basically a free kill on 99.999% of the cast with ignite, with very difficult to shut down mechanics (less mana for casting more spells with a spell that refreshes to a .5 second cd isn't a good idea, it turns out). She didn't scale for shit into lategame, but her lane bully potential was completely and totally ridiculous.

chriseritNov 7, 20155 votes

Riot (if don't remember bad was Meddler) said that she is in list for a rework. they said that they think cassio is not in a healthy spot right now and for that reason she will get reworked. At the same time they said she was not in a good state either pre rework (so they are not going back to pre rework cassio for those still hoping). About when, noone knows obv, but speaking about probability it may be this spring.

You should inform before writing posts like that.

edit: here is the text

{quoted}

Speaking frankly about Cass:

We don't believe Cass is in a good state post rework.

We also don't believe pre-rework Cass was in a good state either.

We would like to do some work (scale unknown, though extremely unlikely to be a full scale rework) on Cass next year.

How that work will be prioritized hasn't been determined yet. There are a number of other projects it'd have to be traded off against on either the Live Gameplay (balance) team or the Champion Update (reworks) team (projects like Ryze, Azir, Taric, Yorick etc).

Even if we do do work on Cass next year I can't offer any promises as to when that might be. Could be some small stuff early in the year and some medium work later, just balance/QoL changes at some indeterminate point, a moderate sized piece of gameplay work late in the year etc.

gg git diffNov 7, 20152 votes

You should inform before writing posts like that.

But then what will boards complain about?!?!?! /s

TheUltimateSpearNov 7, 20153 votes

I know, but look at the last bullet point. He says there's no guarantee she'll get more than balance/QoL. And it's not for a while- I mean, I can live with a while, but let's say that "a while" of a year give or take passes, and Riot says the same thing. :/

chriseritNov 7, 20152 votes

And it's not for a while- I mean, I can live with a while, but let's say that "a while" of a year give or take passes, and Riot says the same thing. :/

well that's a different point. they wanna start working on her but they don't know how and when (and here i assure you they will rework something about her... as she is right now she can't ever be balanced).

personally before her rework i played her really a lot so i can definitely see how are you feeling but right now you/we can't do anything.

They understood their mistake and they wanna get working on her again. All we can do at this point is waiting. waiting till they will be able to start working on her, again. it is like for Yorick, it's obvious Riot want to rework him but right now they have not the resource to do it. being honest what you wrote may happen and for this reason Riot will never response to those threads. If they do it we would feel bad and they don't want this to happen (they don't want you to feel the same way they are feeling about).

Remember they are players too, when they know something must be changed and they can't do it (in that moment) they feel bad ... the same of you if not worse. If they would have resources, they would instantly do it but that's real life and they don't have illimitate resources.

Hope you will understand their position and accept it whatever happens. item 3070

AspynnNov 7, 20154 votes

I honestly love the way the new cass functions. I think it's really strong and really fun to play, however I would be perfectly fine if they decided to do some fancy kind of kit/name/lore/character switch like Smite did with their dragons. I like Cass's kit, but I'm not incredibly attatched to her as a character, while all cass mains are. I really like Cass's kit as it is, so if Riot wanted to create a new champion and give it cass's marking and e spamming spells while switched cass over to a DoT mage, I would be perfectly fine with that change. But I don't really like the idea of completely obliterating Cass's kit, because I find it to be really enjoyable.

freeformlineNov 7, 20152 votes

You could play Urgot :). I was actually an Urgot main for a long time before I picked up Cassiopeia.

Cynical RainNov 7, 20153 votes

Again with the fucking Cassiopeia thread. Stfu, and Gtfo.

She's fine. Old Cass was fine, New Cass is fine. Old was better, but oh fucking well.

Xerath and Cassiopeia are in the same boat. The "reworks" are middle ground.

VaralessiaNov 7, 201514 votes

what in the fuck are you going on about?

new cass got a mechanic that had literally ZERO bearing on her theme, new cass got her play style changed dramatically for no good damn reason, new cass got gutted because she was strong, so now we're left with a gutted ghost of a champion that we once enjoyed.

We dont want cass buffed, we want her for what she's supposed to be in the first place.

(And if this all sounds familiar aside from the gutting part, history tends to repeat itself. Mordekaiser )

LlaniteNov 8, 20153 votes

As mid main, Cass is now less toxic and binary than she was pre-reworked. Not saying she's at good spot, but to say she's now more toxic to play against is plain wrong.

IntakiNineNov 8, 20153 votes

Because DoT->Run Away->DoT->Run Away->Repeat ad nauseum was so compelling.

63536895_DELNov 7, 20152 votes

I've only played Cass a few times so I can't really give a valid opinion, but here is a statistic that blew my mind, Cassiopeia's winrate in top lane at 125+ games is over 60%, http://champion.gg/champion/Cassiopeia/Top It kind of seems like that special kind of insane winrate that only people who have truly learned how to play Urgod know

TG WrathNov 7, 20156 votes

or there is a specific top lane matchup she stomps

Battlecast SonaNov 8, 20152 votes

Cassio does really well against melee champs because with her Q and W you're basically perma-poisoned if you're in range to last hit. This is exacerbated by the fact that a lot of top lane tanks don't have very good waveclear until they get items to splitpush.

George LSNov 7, 20152 votes

She excels against passive tanky champs like shen and maokai in top as she can get her poison on them easier and get to that magic 500 passive stacks faster

Dominick DestineNov 7, 20152 votes

I tend to agree with the OP but will add a new caveat to Cass' situation.

I played Cass way back before the rework and thought she was strong, her range was awful and she was , for my money, the most vulnerable mid mage... this was off-set by her strong poison, allowing her to poke her enemies to death without presenting a target for too long.

When this changed to make her an E machine, the only way they could reconcile her shit range/lack of consistent disables with her new "Stand there and spam" playstyle was to over-tune her numbers. Obviously she was still a shit character but at least she became powerful... and playable. In order for her to be viable as a character that stands in full range of enemy damage but having no stuns or mobility herself, she Needs to be tremendously over-tuned.

But again obviously, she got nerfed because she was over-tuned, so now we have the situation where a character had a failed rework , the compensation was taken away and thus, she plays horribly, feels terrible to handle, loses against every single match up (Name one winning match up for Cass... here are some of the ones that beat her Fizz Katarina Leblanc Jayce Zed Yasuo Talon Annie Azir Ahri etc. ).

Bad champion, needs full rework focusing on her poison instead of her direct nukes, would not currently play her either. OP is correct.

The Queen ViperNov 7, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2015-11-07T20:35:18.391+0000)

But again obviously, she got nerfed because she was over-tuned, so now we have the situation where a character had a failed rework , the compensation was taken away and thus, she plays horribly, feels terrible to handle, loses against every single match up (Name one winning match up for Cass... here are some of the ones that beat her etc. ).

Bad champion, needs full rework focusing on her poison instead of her direct nukes, would not currently play her either. OP is correct.

Power-wise, Cass is still just fine... not stronk, but not weak either. Sure, they could tweak her early game a bit, since it's quite weak now.

When it comes to those mentioned champions, she can manage them if you know how to play her... and only somewhat hard match ups are: Fizz , Leblanc , Azir , Ahri . And those are pretty much only because of the excessive mobility they bring which makes dodging skillshots easier for them, while Azir being the exception when it comes to mobility but instead he has more range and poke.

Dominick DestineNov 7, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2015-11-07T20:52:16.475+0000)

Power-wise, Cass is still just fine... not stronk, but not weak either. Sure, they could tweak her early game a bit, since it's quite weak now.

Surely you jest. If you play Diamond or above, you know that Cass will lose her lane against any of the common mid picks. She is absolutely atrocious... borderline unplayable.

The Queen ViperNov 7, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:03:21.669+0000)

Surely you jest. If you play Diamond or above, you know that Cass will lose her lane against any of the common mid picks. She is absolutely atrocious... borderline unplayable.

Only if you suck... so it depends.

If you know how to play her, you can do just fine.

Dominick DestineNov 7, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:07:15.646+0000)

Only if you suck... so it depends.

I'm surprised to be running into other Diamonds today that spout such tremendous nonsense. Cass might break even or even sometimes win mid lane, but the overwhelming majority of the time she will lose horribly and has no possible chance of recovery.

She is a bad champion and must not be picked in ranked. There are objectively superior alternatives and thus, they must be picked instead.

The Queen ViperNov 7, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:11:44.387+0000)

I'm surprised to be running into other Diamonds today that spout such tremendous nonsense. Cass might break even or even sometimes win mid lane, but the overwhelming majority of the time she will lose horribly and has no possible chance of recovery.

Well not everyone can be good with her, obviously.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:11:44.387+0000)

She is a bad champion and must not be picked in ranked. There are objectively superior alternatives and thus, they must be picked instead.

If people are not comfortable with Cass, then they should not pick her, sure. However once you know her strengths and weaknesses, you can play around them just fine.

Dominick DestineNov 7, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:15:30.395+0000)

Well not everyone can be good with her, obviously.

If people are not comfortable with Cass, then they should not pick her, sure. However once you know her strengths and weaknesses, you can play around them just fine.

Pure nonsense.

It has nothing to do with any of that, she is objectively a piece of trash and her stats reflect this. Pull Cass at Diamond and you will , much more often than not, get eaten alive mid against any of the popular picks.

The only way this will not be the case is if you get carried by your jungler (Unlikely, as Cass is terrible at capitalizing on jungle ganks unlike, say, Zed/Talon/Yasuo/Fizz/Brand/Ahri/etc.) or the opposing mid is at a tremendously lower level of skill than you.

At equal levels of skill, Cassiopeia is a terrible pick and will be a burden on her team compared to alternative mids.

The Queen ViperNov 7, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:28:14.922+0000)

It has nothing to do with any of that, she is objectively a piece of trash and her stats reflect this. Pull Cass at Diamond and you will , much more often than not, get eaten alive mid against any of the popular picks.

You can do just fine with her in Diamond and above, that's not a problem. And again, if you suck then you will get eaten alive, not matter what champ you play.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:28:14.922+0000)

At equal levels of skill, Cassiopeia is a terrible pick and will be a burden on her team compared to alternative mids.

Only if you suck with her.

If people really want to learn how to play her better, I personally suggest subscribing to this YouTube channel, which has some good high-elo gameplay videos:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwdc2rIrs-pwhaIV7sE0YOA

Dominick DestineNov 7, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:35:53.027+0000)

You can do just fine with her in Diamond and above, that's not a problem. And again, if you suck then you will get eaten alive, not matter what champ you play.

Nonsense. This is not about skill, it is about objective merit. Cassiopeia is trash.

If people really want to learn how to play her better, I personally suggest subscribing to this YouTube channel, which has good high-elo gameplay videos

I'm already Diamond level, thanks. Maybe you should consider playing Cassiopeia in solo queue... when you get utterly raped by Yasuo/Zed/Talon/Ahri/Azir/Fizz/etc. , then you may realize how much nonsense you are spouting.

You might like Cassiopeia because you are fond of the design, but that is subjective... objectively, Cassiopeia is terrible.

The Queen ViperNov 7, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:38:53.401+0000)

Nonsense. This is not about skill, it is about objective merit. Cassiopeia is trash.

Well, you are just being delusional then... or either you simply cannot accept the fact that you are not good with Cass.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:38:53.401+0000)

I'm already Diamond level, thanks. Maybe you should consider playing Cassiopeia in solo queue... when you get utterly raped by Yasuo/Zed/Talon/Ahri/Azir/Fizz/etc. , then you may realize how much nonsense you are spouting.

You do realize that you are talking to one of the most dedicated Cass player in the world right now? And I too play her in Diamond level, it's not that hard. Currently it's way harder to get your tilting team to play for the late game.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:38:53.401+0000)

I'm already Diamond level, thanks.

Well good for you... however the dude in those videos is in Master tier, in Korea. So there's a lot you can learn from him.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:38:53.401+0000)

You might like Cassiopeia because you are fond of the design, but that is subjective... objectively, Cassiopeia is terrible.

Nah, her design was a bit better before the rework. It was fun to spam Q and stack the old passive. And again, Cass is not terrible per se. She's not stronk, but not weak either... she's mediocre. But once you play her enough, you can do just fine and play around her weaknesses.

So please, you can stop being in denial now.

Dominick DestineNov 7, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T21:49:56.539+0000)

Well, you are just being delusional then... or either you simply cannot accept the fact that you are not good with Cass.

I am uninterested in playing a garbage character... but even if I was the best Cass player in the world, my point would stand regardless. Your best argument is to directly attack me which reveals you have nothing of value to present.

You do realize that you are talking to one of the most dedicated Cass player in the world right now? And I too play her in Diamond level, it's not that hard. Currently it's way harder to get your tilting team to play for the late game.

I checked your stats earlier, you had 2 Cass games in the past week or so, one win, one loss and neither had particularly impressive stats... compare; I main Evelynn, my Evelynn stats per game are much higher than yours per game with Cass... my win rate is higher as well.

I am not impressed with your stats. Mine are much better.

Well good for you... however the dude in those videos is in Master tier, in Korea. So there's a lot you can learn from him.

Not interested in the recommendation of someone with sub 50% win rate claiming that Cass is even remotely good.

So please, you can stop being in denial now.

Stats don't lie. Her stats are awful according to Lolking and she was ignored during worlds. The only one in denial is you.

The Queen ViperNov 7, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:23:22.884+0000)

I am uninterested in playing a garbage character... but even if I was the best Cass player in the world, my point would stand regardless. Your best argument is to directly attack me which reveals you have nothing of value to present.

Because this is all about you, and your inability to accept the fact that Cass is not that bad of a champion you make her out to be. There is nothing value to gain when talking to ignorant people like you, since you will never learn.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:23:22.884+0000)

I checked your stats earlier, you had 2 Cass games in the past week or so, one win, one loss and neither had particularly impressive stats... compare; I main Evelynn, my Evelynn stats per game are much higher than yours per game with Cass... my win rate is higher as well.

I have no interest in playing Ranked right now, when the season ends in less than a week. Have been playing other games (Hand of Fate) while waiting the preseason to start. And no shit Sherlock, that your stats can be better since you are playing a different champ that has a different role with a different powerspike (early game jungler vs late game hypercarry). And like I said earlier, currently it's way harder to deal with a tilting team and get to the late game, than it is to play Cass.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:23:22.884+0000)

Not interested in the recommendation of someone with sub 50% win rate claiming that Cass is even remotely good.

While you do not even main Cass. So please, what are you even doing in this discussion?

Still better than your sub 35% win rate with Cass.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:23:22.884+0000)

Stats don't lie. Her stats are awful according to Lolking and she was ignored during worlds. The only one in denial is you.

Maybe her stats are awful simply because majority of the games never reach the late game or the point where Cass gets her powerspike? Just maybe? Her stats being awful may have nothing to do with her.

Dominick DestineNov 7, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:34:37.503+0000)

Because this is all about you, and your inability to accept the fact that Cass is not that bad of a champion you make her out to be. There is nothing value to gain when talking to ignorant people like you, since you will never learn.

Reality does not bend to your emotion. Cassiopeia is putrid garbage and the stats across the board reflect this.

I have no interest in playing Ranked right now, when the season ends in less than a week.

I was going to say "What a surprise, can't put your money where your mouth is" but I will grant you that this is not a good time to play ranked. I am doing the same thing.... that doesn't excuse your shit performance in the last two ranked games you played and how you were so utterly dominated by a Plat 2 Ahri after defending Cass' performance in mid.

Have been playing other games (Hand of Fate) while waiting the preseason to start. And no shit Sherlock, that your stats can be better since you are playing a different champ that has a different role with a different powerspike (early game jungler vs late game hypercarry).

Nonsense.

You can isolate certain statistics like kills per game, but ALL of the relevant stats I have on Evelynn are superior to ALL of your relevant stats on Cass (Kills/Deaths/Assists/WinRate/etc.). That cannot be chalked up to "Well it's a different character!".

And like I said earlier, currently it's way harder to deal with a tilting team and get to the late game, than it is to play Cass.

Nonsense again.

That can be said about literally any other character.

Maybe her stats are awful simply because majority of the games never reach the late game or the point where Cass gets her powerspike? Just maybe? Her stats being awful may have nothing to do with her.

Point 1 and point 2 are completely contradictory.

Your first statement openly and directly states that Cass' powerspike is so late in the game that most games do not make it that far. This means she is a shit character at least in the majority of games you play.

Then you say that "It has nothing to do with her" after just having stated that her "powerspike" is too late in the game to be relevant... her "powerspike" is non existent, but even if we grant you the first point, the second point is still contradicted.

Basically, you're a fanboy that is defending a shit character because you like them. That is all. Cass is garbage and needs to be, at the very least buffed and preferably; Completely reworked. Current Cass is absurdly weak and borderline unplayable.

The Queen ViperNov 7, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:42:15.651+0000)

Reality does not bend to your emotion. Cassiopeia is putrid garbage and the stats across the board reflect this.

Again, stats do not tell us why they are what they are. Correlation does not imply causation bro.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:42:15.651+0000)

I was going to say "What a surprise, can't put your money where your mouth is" but I will grant you that this is not a good time to play ranked. I am doing the same thing.... that doesn't excuse your shit performance in the last two ranked games you played and how you were so utterly dominated by a Plat 2 Ahri after defending Cass' performance in mid.

Not sure where you are looking my stats, but I was clearly dominating my lane, and only after 20+ minutes Ahri went ahead in gold. My performance was in fact superb, however you conveniently forgot to mention the actual reason why we lost the game... however anyone with a brain can identify it, when looking at the match details.

http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2356351266/22435037?tab=overview

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:42:15.651+0000)

Nonsense.

Why so delusional?

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:42:15.651+0000)

You can isolate certain statistics like kills per game, but ALL of the relevant stats I have on Evelynn are superior to ALL of your relevant stats on Cass (Kills/Deaths/Assists/WinRate/etc.). That cannot be chalked up to "Well it's a different character!".

I'm pretty sure you are not looking those stats right, so let's paste them here shall we:

**You: ** 3.51:1 KDA , 10.0 / 4.9 / 7.3 , 422 Played, 59% win ratio. Me: 3.28:1 KDA , 6.1 / 3.9 / 6.7 , 1133 Played, 51% win ratio.

As we can clearly see, your stats differ because of the simple fact that you are playing an early game jungler, where I'm playing a late game hypercarry.

Oh, and let's just forget the fact that I have more than double the amount of games than you. How about you come and show your stats once you have at least played 1000 games with your main... let's see if can you maintain those stats of yours.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:42:15.651+0000)

Nonsense again.

Why so delusional?

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:42:15.651+0000)

Your first statement openly and directly states that Cass' powerspike is so late in the game that most games do not make it that far. This means she is a shit character at least in the majority of games you play.

And? That doesn't make her shit in any possible way. It's not Cassios fault that people don't adapt to the late game team comp, won't stall the game and don't want to play for the late game in general. This applies to any late game champ, not just Cass.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:42:15.651+0000)

Then you say that "It has nothing to do with her" after just having stated that her "powerspike" is too late in the game to be relevant...

You do understand that every late game champion is designed like that, right? Hence the name, LATE game champion. Now, if your team refuses to play for the late game, there's not much what you can do about it and it would have been more preferable to pick an early game champion instead... however that's usually not something you can know prior to the game, at least not in yoloQ where people don't put much weight on creating synergistic team comps.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:42:15.651+0000)

Basically, you're a fanboy that is defending a shit character because you like them.

I don't need to defend anything. I know she's just fine... and majority of the people playing her are just not good enough, hence the whining here on the forums.

Battlecast SonaNov 8, 20153 votes

Two people in a row think Fizz is a hard matchup? You can push him out at level 2 really easily. Cassio dunks on melee laners in general.

Faded LichNov 8, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2015-11-08T05:05:13.484+0000)

I'm just super tired of seeing Cassio QQ threads start with "I'm tired of spamming E" when that's literally been in place since the day she came out. Stop pretending like the E reset mechanic came from the rework, because it didn't.

[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z1HkTrgA,comment-id=000f00000001,timestamp=2015-11-08T05:08:07.741+0000)

Two people in a row think Fizz is a hard matchup? You can push him out at level 2 really easily. Cassio dunks on melee laners in general.

Thank you person with mild intelligence and semblance of understanding.

Battlecast SonaNov 8, 20152 votes

More like "person who is tired of people bandwagoning about reworks when so many of them have improved the health of a champion because we personally don't like them". Cassio saw pro play for the first time since Season 1 after her rework, and if you don't think that means Riot did SOMETHING right, you're ignorant. Do I think Cassi is perfect right now? God no, I think some of her power budget needs to be adjusted into her poisons (because currently you only really have to drop W on someone for poison resets and there's very little incentive to connect your Q aside from keeping E resets up and ms). I just can't stand people that dislike or can't play a champion and so assume that champion is garbage.

Does she need help? Yes, certainly. But this rework did accomplish the first part of Riot's goal - putting Cassi in a place where she COULD be balanced with numbers changes and QoL buffs rather than requiring another full rework.