Can we finally get some real nerfs instead of reducing his Q cd refund by 10%?
Something like:
Q cooldown becomes static, so it can't be reduced beyond his own refund mechanic Q cooldown becomes 20 at all ranks from 20/17.5/15/12.5/10
Time between Mega and Mini form after transforming should be increased to 25-30 seconds instead of the 13 its at currently
Sozan57 votesHe's extremely squishy, has very little health regen, his range is actually low, his escape mechanism is on 18 seconds cooldown and his Q have very long cooldown if he doesn't catch it.
In other words - go all in while he's in small form. If he escapes with E - just do it again as soon as you can. Also, even if he escapes with E you will most likely win the trade, since Gnar actually doesn't hit all that hard until later when the %health damage gets high.
Really, if anything then his Mega form is troublesome, not the mini one. Mini-Gnar have tons of meaningful weaknesses that are also easy to abuse, unless you got counterpicked hard of course. He's a bit like Teemo in that regard.
Kingsgrave1 votesHe's extremely squishy, has very little health regen, his range is actually low, his escape mechanism is on 18 seconds cooldown and his Q have very long cooldown if he doesn't catch it.
In other words - go all in while he's in small form. If he escapes with E - just do it again as soon as you can. Also, even if he escapes with E you will most likely win the trade, since Gnar actually doesn't hit all that hard until later when the %health damage gets high.
Really, if anything then his Mega form is troublesome, not the mini one. Mini-Gnar have tons of meaningful weaknesses that are also easy to abuse, unless you got counterpicked hard of course. He's a bit like Teemo in that regard.
Im aware of all those things, I just don't think its large enough of a weakness yet.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesthe thing is that he is not a form switcher as he was intended to be he has 2 forms which work reealy well byy themselves mini gnar is a kiting adc and he is fine fighting like that without turning into mega gnar mega gnar is a tanky fighter and there is nothing he needs that would want him to become a mini gnar again
thats the real problem that multi form champions easily face (besides all other problems) right now gnar has 2 diverse forms, but nothing that would make him need to change them, it just happens and changes his playstyle, but he doesnt need it for anything besides ulting in a teamfight
Serenity Now2 votesI tend to agree.
Little Gnar has squishier stats than an ADC, but he's also ridiculously mobile with an easy to land slow. And he builds tank, not glass cannon.
He does need more vulnerability as little Gnar, otherwise he just sits back and safely farms and harasses without consequence.
His sustain from transformations doesn't help either.
disregardable3 votesI've got to tell you, the tank stats do absolutely nothing for you in miniform. If I'm stupid enough to let panth land his combo on me when I have Sunfire Cape, I will barely make it out alive.
The farming and harassing without consequence thing is true of all ranged champions that go top lane. Tristana has more range, more damage, and more distance on her jump. She could also sit back and farm safely. I actually do that with her sometimes.
Gnar's only real problem is that he's almost as useful in teamfights as mumu.
Kingsgrave1 votes[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AptlJvGy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-01-26T13:11:10.807+0000)
I've got to tell you, the tank stats do absolutely nothing for you in miniform. If I'm stupid enough to let panth land his combo on me when I have Sunfire Cape, I will barely make it out alive.
The farming and harassing without consequence thing is true of all ranged champions that go top lane. Tristana has more range, more damage, and more distance on her jump. She could also sit back and farm safely. I actually do that with her sometimes.
Gnar's only real problem is that he's almost as useful in teamfights as mumu.
Gnar almost always destroys Pantheon once he gets Sunfire cape.
disregardable2 votesIn mega form, yes. Panth is an early game champion, he has more potential than most top laners to kill me at level 3. He should've done so if he wanted to win at level 8.
Kingsgrave1 votes[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AptlJvGy,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-26T13:15:08.473+0000)
In mega form, yes.
In mini form more often than not. Pantheon can't really do anything to targets after they have large amounts of health and armor, which is Sunfire in a nutshell. Ive seen plenty of games where Gnar just ignores Pantheon's damage and just Q + W passive him to death and after that Pantheon cant escape because 2 seconds slow combined with Gnar's constant MS increase.
disregardable1 votesWish I was that god-tier. I find that I can only generally do that if he misses his E and doesn't have enough mana to spam me with spears. Which let's be real, what pantheon doesn't bring flask against gnar.
Kingsgrave1 votes[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AptlJvGy,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-26T13:19:40.584+0000)
Wish I was that god-tier. I find that I can only generally do that if he misses his E and doesn't have enough mana to spam me with spears. Which let's be real, what pantheon doesn't bring flask against gnar.
When I have faced Gnar as Pantheon I could never get close enough to use my Spear on him. He never let me even remotely get close.
disregardable1 votesAgain, wish I was that god-tier. The other thing to note about that is his very low range increases per level. Early on, you will be able to spear him outside of his auto's range, and it will slowly become harder. Keep doing it to keep track of when he outranges you.
Sozan51 votesWhich is never.
Gnar never outranges Pantheon Spear Shot with basic attacks. Nor his stun.
If he can Autoattack you - you can stun him and unleash your combo.
disregardable1 votesHe does, actually.
Basic information you probably know: Even though Panth's spear has a higher number on the wiki, the way skills range and auto-attacks range are measured is different. The starting place of a skillshot is the very center of a champion, the starting place of an AA is the very edge of a champion. This means that although some low range skills look like they have more range than a standard AA range, they actually don't.
Sozan51 votesYes, and Gnar have 500 range at max level.
And considering that Gnar isn't much bigger than Teemo, I presume that his hitbox is around 100-120 units in diameter (Teemo is 100). Now, from the middle to the edge of hitbox it's going to be 50-60 units of distance that you can add to his Attack Range, which is still lower than Spear Shot range (600).
Unless of course AA range is from edge to edge of champions (but I think it was edge to center for AA and center to center for abilities), in which case depending on Pantheon hitbox the range might be higher on some final levels.