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Can we remove devourer from the game and then actually fix champs that rely on it to function?

Eyesack··206 votes·47,316 views

I feel like the ONLY reason why champs like xin shyvana and yi (heavily auto attack reliant melee champions) are viable is because this item exists.

Hence why you NEVER see them top lane. Thing is, i liked to play these champions top lane, but i can't do it. No matter what you build top lane, these champions just kind of suck. They simply don't bring the damage that they do with a sated devourer.

I feel like the reason why these champions don't do anything without sated is because they are balanced around sated, and in short, that fucking sucks.

I can't viably play the champions i want to in lane because they REQUIRE a jungle item in order to be effective. You want to kill an adc as top xin? Why the fuck bother? Just play malph and do the EXACT same thing xin does (dive the enemy adc) while being 10x tankier and having more disruptive cc, all without having to build a SINGLE DAMAGE ITEM.

I just can't fathom how people can complain about champs like xin/yi/shyvana managing to do their job because sated exists and crying for sated nerfs, meanwhile MUCH. MUCH more potent champions are running rampant without the need to farm the jungle for 10 minutes straight and without the need to build ANY damage items.

KT Rolster's maokai 1v1'd faker's ezreal 37 minutes into a game, and the maokai started off with half hp...

And then i see poppy/ekko running RAMPANT in the lck literally SO TANKY they dont give a single fuck, fly into the enemy adc, take out 80-100% of their hp and yet i go on the forums and its all 'yi is op' and 'xin is a dumb fucking champion' and 'shyvana is the top performing jungler'. IS SHE REALLY? How many god damn shyvana's do you see? I have literally not seen ONE shyvana since the nerf to titanic/shyv q/devourer stacks off rift herald. NOT ONE.

And i certainly NEVER saw a shyvana in the lck. So you know what, I'm pissed. I'm pissed that a handful of bruisers get to be gamebreaking op and the rest literally do nothing in comparison.

Trundle/poppy/maokai/malphite/ekko/graves/rammus are actually stupid broken, and yet i never see ANYTHING about them in the patch notes. Meanwhile auto reliant bruiser's suck because they've become dependent on devourer.

Sorry for the rant but i'm so pissed at the state of the game.

301 Comments

Grashnim50 votes

I've said they need to delete item 3930 and item 3124, but Riot gives no fucks as they rarely influence the LCS.

RiotRiot Axes153 votes

Both items have significant changes planned for the midseason patch.

LankPants30 votes

I just hope that if the changes make champs like Shyvana and Yi who rely heavily on Devourer weak you don't take 6 months to do anything about it like you did the last time you nerfed a jungle item.

ViashinoWizard5 votes

To be honest, if Yi and Shyvana were too weak for a while that'd be fine with me. They're not particularly fun to have in a game regardless of their balance level.

Knoyle10 votes

Because ignoring the problem is the way to go?

ViashinoWizard1 votes

Because the game would be better off if Shyvanna at least was Eve levels of unviable until she gets a proper rework.

Knoyle13 votes

I think it would be better if EVERYONE was viable with or without a rework. Some champions do need updates but just dumpstering a champion for later doesn't really fix it and given that it seems to take them quite a long time to rework/fix/etc It would be better to at least make her fit somewhere significantly. We have enough champions with identity issues as is.

QjTHqo3RTq9 votes

Riot would never dumpster a champion because their rework got trashed or has a future update coming Mordekaiser

ViashinoWizard4 votes

You say this like Morde isn't viable right now.

Malicious Metal8 votes

He's viable, but so is every single champion currently in the game. There is no champion which would make your team insta-lose.

And Morde's problem isn't one of power level, it's one of... Damn, almost had me there, don't want to write yet another essay.

trash sion2 votes

Please write an essay so I can compare it to the ones I write about Morde not being trash.

agbudar4 votes

too much potential in his passive too much potential in his ult too much potential in his W too much potential in his Q his E atm is actually quite balanced his base stats are horrible which makes all of his abilities actually kinda subpar because he needs good stats to make any of it work. he needs tank stats to get the max benefit out of his passive while also needing a ton of ap to fill it up he needs tons of ap to be relevant in the game yet needs tank stats in order to be relevant in game, purely because his base stats as a JUGGERNAUT are garbage.

to give you the cold hard truth twitch and soraka have better base health and base growth. his base health regen is third lowest in the game. his health regen growth is THE LOWEST.

that being said his base ad is 18th which is quite high (kalista beats him though) his ad growth is the highest.

atk speed is 5th lowest in game atk speed growth is somewhere in the middle.

his armor is 14th lowest his armor growth he is somewhere around 40th place so its average. mr + its growth is the same as most other melee but this is a very generalized stat for most champions

his movement speed is the worst offender though 325 this right his is what kills the whole deal for me this is the fact that FORCES mordekaiser to ALWAYS build item 3116 which if you think about it is nothing but an item abuse. but its the only way you can make it work.

ViashinoWizard1 votes

My problem isn't that she has identity issues, it's that the gameplay she creates is uninteresting, frustrating to play against, and lacks meaningful interaction.

Abyssphere6 votes

{quoted}

My problem isn't that she has identity issues, it's that the gameplay she creates is uninteresting, frustrating to play against, and lacks meaningful interaction.

What do you consider meaningful interaction? I'll give you uninteresting (never found her frustrating in any way outside of "too strong" though) but she's pretty interactive outside of the whole power farming thing that's inherent to every Devourer jungler.

Spyglass4 votes

I'm curious on this, too. Her skills are boring balls of stats - but her mobility combined with lack of CC make playing against her pretty straightforward even if she's a fed monster. She pretty much has to flank your team to do anything unless you just sit there and facetank her - so her counter-play is positioning to stop that, or stopping dragon-flight with displacement. Pretty damn interactive as far as bruisers go.

Strawberrycocoa9 votes

If intentionally removing champions from the game because they aren't any fun to play against was a thing, we wouldn't still have Yasuo or Zed.

ViashinoWizard5 votes

Evelynn "hello"

gingerkid4275 votes

Oh, hey, I didn't see you there. [slayer-jinx-wink]

ZeichiVos4 votes

Man everyone forgets the Yorick...

Pierce The Veal4 votes

{quoted}

If intentionally removing champions from the game because they aren't any fun to play against was a thing, we wouldn't still have Yasuo or Zed.

Actually every champion would be utterly gutted. The only champion that fun to play against is one you can dominate easily.

Darkslayer8511 votes

Devourer is the remains of an item which was removed, which was the remains of an item which was removed, which was the remains of an item which was broken as f. I'm talking broken. As hell.

Keevalroy4 votes

One would think by now that after so many iterations that the item probably just doesn't work. But what do I know?

FalconPawwwwnch65 votes

Can we give trinity force its attack speed back then?

It's disgusting that Trinity was changed to favor ADCs when it was used mostly on bruisers, and the only good fighter AS item was rageblade, and now it's being nerfed

Give Trinity it's attack speed back

Presently Absent16 votes

A crit-free AD/AS item besides botrk would be nice too.

Eyesack7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Currently Absent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApE4WjUg,comment-id=0000000100020000,timestamp=2016-04-09T03:20:56.322+0000)

A crit-free AD/AS item besides botrk would be nice too.

dont forget youmuus

Sp33d Zer02 votes

Has crit.

Hyrum Graff24 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApE4WjUg,comment-id=000000010002000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-09T07:22:33.238+0000)

Has crit.

Not since preseason.

Pierce The Veal7 votes

{quoted}

dont forget youmuus

Fighter's like attack speed that's always there, as they fight long sustain fights, not in bursts like Youmuu's encourages.

cloman10034 votes

I want Zephyr back :(

Weasel Kensei11 votes

I miss Zephyr blade, was one of my favorites on Sivir.

Shrek Luigi5 votes

Irelia

;~;

StormFang777 votes

Hecarim

;-;

Timely Voidling6 votes

Are these "Signifigant changes" along the lines of 5% attack speed nerfs and then cost reduction?

Kind of like the -5 AD nerf and cost reduction on Mercurial? The one Rioters like Repertoir are using as examples in their "defense" of AD/On-Hit itemization?

RiotRiotRepertoir24 votes

I've defended AD itemization? That's news to me.

Timely Voidling7 votes

It pretty much seems that way when every single time someone brings these things up you comment along the lines of: "But these items are already being nerfed on the PBE," even though each change made to them is a joke compared to the stat blasting you give any other items.

Not to mention the fact that you guys always seem to take your time with those items but when it's an AP item the changes are practically instant and only go on the PBE for one cycle.

RiotRiotRepertoir21 votes

It pretty much seems that way when every single time someone brings these things up you comment along the lines of: "But these items are already being nerfed on the PBE," even though each change made to them is a joke compared to the stat blasting you give any other items.

Isn't the Scimitar nerf on the PBE like 5 or 10 AD? That's a pretty big deal. We've seen memes born from nerfs that size.

I'm sympathetic toward your concern here, I really am. That said, I don't think the proper response to past changes that felt like knee-jerk reactions is to continue to make more knee jerk reactions in the present and future.

If anything, it's in my best interest for mage items to be really powerful on their release, since I have several mages I'm working on that I want to make sure have attractive itemization options.

Solidair33 votes

speaking of which,a lot of items are getting their ap lowered, it seems. Will there be more added to other items or something to make it so lategame AP values are generally about the same or are final AP values intentionally being lowered in favor of new utility?

I know items are usually handled by Xypherous' team but I'm wondering if you've heard much :x

Old Man Teeto12 votes

The nerf for Scimitar is fairly significant.

However, it's the WRONG type of nerf.

The item right now is strong at a 3'rd or fourth item slot, covering a Lifesteal and MR item.

Removing the Lifesteal from the item, but keeping the AD, retains its high AD so AD casters can continue to make good use of it, but nerfs it for the class that needs to be bumped down some. Buying QSS/Scimitar should be a game to game decision, and currently, is rarely if ever wrong.

RiotRiotRepertoir12 votes

Buying QSS/Scimitar should be a game to game decision, and currently, is rarely if ever wrong.

Totally agree with this. We have a small change in testing for QSS that hopefully addresses some of this.

Desiderium4 votes

If you have a change in line for QSS to make it more situational and less of a "buy all the time" thing, then why bother to nerf the AD of its completed item by 10?

RiotRiotRepertoir6 votes

We think the two can go hand-in-hand to the best of my knowledge.

Timely Voidling2 votes

You and your upvote sheep don't fool anyone Repertoir.

If you're really so against these "Knee-jerk balance reactions" then stop making them period, for EVERYONE.

RiotRiotRepertoir27 votes

I'm not the balance team, but I do enjoy talking to players about the state of the game.

Timely Voidling2 votes

Not on the balance team, but you're in charge of some of the reworks...

Everything you say just pisses me off more about the mage update

RiotRiotRepertoir23 votes

If you don't mind me asking, why's that?

Timely Voidling3 votes

You don't work in balance, yet you're making all of these changes that directly influences it. You don't work in balance and yet somehow we're supposed to take your word for it that a change is "good" and "significant" and "healthy"

That's what pisses me, how stupid that is.

RiotRiotRepertoir27 votes

You don't work in balance and yet somehow we're supposed to take your word for it that a change is "good" and "significant" and "healthy"

I actually don't think players should really just blindly "take my word for it" (or anyone else's) when it comes to changes in the game. That would sorta defeat the purpose of forum discussion.

Conversation about the state of the game or the choice behind any single change is what this place is for.

Keevalroy10 votes

{quoted}

I actually don't think players should really just blindly "take my word for it" (or anyone else's) when it comes to changes in the game. That would sorta defeat the purpose of forum discussion.

Conversation about the state of the game or the choice behind any single change is what this place is for.

That's understandable, but you seem to be one of the only gameplay affiliated Rioters capable of reading, understanding, acting on, and / or sympathizing with the player response or criticism. That's why you're so respected and welcomed because you can actually talk to us about what's going on and converse with us considering we're all League players without any of the "holier than thou" attitude or the "I'm a Rioter therefore I know better so deal with it" mentality.

For almost everyone else, we're basically forced to take their word for it because it's either dismissive arrogance (it does come off this way), it's like talking to a brick wall where nothing substantial is answered, or the most common - we speak to a wall of silence where the controversial change is pushed through as if feedback never made it through the seemingly shut eyes and plugged ears.

That's why a lot of us have basically no trust in the developers - it's like they don't actually play the game or care at all about it's state.

who want me1 votes

Hey Rep off topic but is there any word on the Akali rework scruffy talked about sometime last year? or is that a different team than you're in?

RiotRiotRepertoir6 votes

It hit a bit of a standstill, but it is still in progress, just a bump in the road.

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