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How to play against Camille, for all the whiners out there.

Niyumi··9 votes·12,185 views

So! In the spirit of my thread on how to play against Illaoi I made a while back, I'm goinna make one for Camille, since people like to whine about her being broken (just like Illaoi way back when).

So, first, realize what her passive does, and how her abilities work.

Passive: When she autos you (every 20 seconds at the start, down to 10 seconds), she gains a shield for 20% of her health, based on what your main damage type is (physical or magical), for 1.5s (no longer scales with level).

  • So, this means that, in short trades, she wins. That leaves us with a few options:

  • Option 1: Play someone who all-ins stronger than she does, and just bully your way through her shield, since she can't run away if she used her E to engage. Good champs for this are Darius Garen Gnar Illaoi Irelia Jax Kennen Kled Pantheon Poppy Renekton Rumble Shen TahmKench Trundle Tryndamere Volibear XinZhao Yorick

  • Option 2: CC her as soon as she autos, and wait out the shield.

  • Option 3: When she goes in with her shield up, just back off and wait it out. (Not recommended. Don't pick a champ that has to do this)

Q: She autos you for a bit of bonus damage, gains a burst of MS, and gets to use the ability one more time at no cost for the next 3s -- but if she waits at least 1.5s before using the second cast, it converts a portion of the damage into true damage (from 40% at level 1 to 80% at 18) -- this damage includes all on-hits like Sheen and Titanic's on-hit.

  • A big chunk of true damage -- ouch! Broken, right? Well, not really. See, Camille has an auto range of 125 (really short), and she has to get the timing down perfectly in order to get the true damage. Too soon or too late, no true damage. The true damage hit is also highly telegraphed, since her legs will gradually light up and hum as the true damage charges -- which is your sign to counterplay it. So, when her legs light up, her next Q auto is goinna do true damage. What do we do about this?

  • Option 1: You guessed it, CC her. As her legs light up, you just stun her and continue beating her up, or walk away. Bam, no true damage.

  • Option 2: Fight her until her legs light up, then walk away. Bam, no true damage.

W: She charges up, telegraphing a cone, and hits you for a chunk of damage. The outer ring does additional damage based on your health, and heals her for all the damage in that zone that she deals, less for non-champs / epic monsters. Not that only the outer ring slows, the inner ring does very minor damage, and that's it.

  • So, this one is easy. It's a telegraph like Darius' Q -- the inner ring does less damage, outer ring does more and heals Camille. Either walk at her, or dodge sideways. Not really goinna explain that much more.

E: Camille first flies to a wall, and then jumps in a direction, going twice as far if at an enemy champ, and stuns anyone she lands on, doing minor damage.

  • So, this one has two parts. First, she shoots a hook and flies to a wall, then she flies in a direction of her choosing. So what do we do?

  • Option 1: Stun her before she reaches the wall.

  • Option 2: Avoid her jump (it goes in a straight line) after she flies off the wall.

  • Option 3: Stand there and fight her if you can, since she now has no escape.

R: (I feel this is the one people have the most issue with) She jumps on you, knocking your team away, and putting you in a box for 4s that prevents you from leaving by any means (flash, TP, dashes, blinks, all that), and causes her to do % health magic damage per auto. However, if she leaves the box for any reason, the ult is cancelled -- but it stays if she dies.

  • So, it's totally broken, right? Wrong. She is trapping herself inside that box as well, and that means she can't use her E to get away without losing her ult. If you remember how her Q and W work, she can't do anything to you with her ult, since she only does 3% max health magic damage per auto.

  • Option 1: CC her a lot, and kite her around. If she can't get within 125 range of you, she does no damage.

  • Option 2: Remind her that you're not trapped in there with her, but she's trapped in there with you (Darius Garen Kennen , etc.) and force her to run away or die.

  • Option 3: Get your team to help (they can just walk back into the box).

  • Option 4: If you use an invincibility frame ability like Fizz E or Zhonya's, you can actually prevent the application of her ult in the first place. Spellshields like Sivir's E and Edge of Night also prevent her ult from actually applying.

FOR ADCS, SQUISHIES, AND TEAMFIGHTS

So, if you read the above, you know how her kit works. Her Q is most of her damage, and her ult prevents her from leaving as well. Now, how do we deal with things as a squishy? Easy!

Passive: Irrelevant in teamfights, all the mixed damage will make it worthless.

Q: If she's allowed to be within 125 range of your ADC or squishy, then your team is bad. Peel her off your squishies (125 range, remember), and she does no damage to them, and doesn't really do much of anything.

W: Highly telegraphed, shouldn't hit you.

E: So, if you're squishy, the stun kind of scares you, huh? Well, she stops at the first champ she hits, so stand behind your team and use them as shields. Tanks won't instantly die to her, so they'll be fine. Otherwise, dodge the straight line or just don't stand by walls.

R: If you're alone, chances are you're dead, unless you have a lot of lifesteal or CC. Kite her around if you're able, CC if you have any, and avoid her second Q. If you're really fed as an ADC, just stand and fight her, out-sustain her, and force her out or kill her. If your team is with you, just fight her, since she can't deal with multiple people at once.

So, what weaknesses does she have? CC destroys her, people who can count to 2 and dodge things ruin her day, and teamfights are not her thing. She excels at singling someone out and destroying them, but you have to let her do that -- she gives you a lot of opportunities to get away, and she can't deal with more than one person at a time. If you peel her off your squishies, she does nothing in teamfights. While her laning phase is strong, she's not without counters, and a good portion of the meta top roster can destroy her if played right.

She's not broken, but she is strong. There are many ways to beat her, and her kit isn't this all-encompassing thing that people try to make it out to be. If you think about what you're doing, and think about what she's going to do, you can win no problem.

If you have any other questions on a specific scenario or something I didn't cover, feel free to ask.

Edit: Here's a picture of her being rank 7, for credibility, since I know someone will bring that up.

http://i.imgur.com/U6gF4L8.png

34 Comments

WAP Jookay4 votes

THANK YOU.

She really isn't that hard to trade when you're used to the toplane, I'm surprised so many people are bitching about it.

Congrats on the R reference, I haven't stopped saying that, if she ults you, you just have to use yours (if it's an offensive one) to destroy her in 1V1.

Niyumi3 votes

I mean, she requires actual counterplay, which most champs in League tend to not have or require. The extent of counterplay we typically have is something like Darius' passive stacks or Kat's dagger she throws on the ground, whereas Camille requires a lot more thought and active counterplay than just dodging telegraphs. It's something most League players HATE since it challenges their skill, and means they're bad if they lose. So they throw tantrums.

She's not broken by any means -- she's strong if played well, but not broken.

GULAG 4 U4 votes

NO STOP USING LOGIC SHE'S BROKEN AND OVERPOWERED AND MY BRONZE ASS WILL NOT GIT GUD

/S

Niyumi4 votes

I KNOW RIGHT, I MUST BE INSANE! SHE'S SO OP!

AgeOfTheMage3 votes

heres how i fight camille: Fiora

Hauling Ashe2 votes

How to play against Camille: Don't play ADC. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Niyumi2 votes

Actually, I've had ADCs just stand there after I ult them, and just drain tank until I died. I've got several videos of it posted on here too, if you wanna see. xD

Hauling Ashe1 votes

I play the wrong ADCs for that, if I'm honest. No Graves or Vayne in my roster.

Niyumi1 votes

Nah, I'm talking an Ashe, MF and Twitch.

Hauling Ashe1 votes

Haven't been able to do that on Ashe. Then again, Camille usually isn't alone when she ults me.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

{quoted}

Actually, I've had ADCs just stand there after I ult them, and just drain tank until I died. I've got several videos of it posted on here too, if you wanna see. xD

Yes I remember that game where you had almost no armour, were at an item disadvantage, at a level disadvantage (against a duo laner lmao), and only lost that "duel" because of Karma shielding her.

Niyumi2 votes

I had 160 armor after runes and masteries, Ashe had no armor pen. Still lost.

BastionKross2 votes

In the spirit of my thread on how to play against Illaoi I made a while back, I'm goinna make one for Camille, since people like to whine about her being broken (just like Illaoi way back when).

To be fair, Illaoi's E debuff used to last somewhere around FOREVER and that made her incredibly frustrating to play against. After that was fixed, most of the complaints went away as well. It wasn't something that "you just have to get used to" or "you just have to learn to dodge" it was something that Riot had to take care of because it was bullshit.

I'm not saying that this directly relates to Camille, but I will say that sometimes "the whiners" have a point.

Niyumi2 votes

Illaoi's old E debuff was cleared if you killed three tentacles though, which was pretty easy to do (without even taking a hit). Plus, you should never get hit by her E anyway, given how telegraphed it is and how minions block it. :P

BastionKross1 votes

If any of that were true, Riot would not have given it the mini-rework and changed it into the healthier and shorter form it's in now.

Killing three tentacles pulled you away from the minion wave (and thus CS) for an extreme amount of time. In addition, "just dodge it" was deemed not to be acceptable enough counterplay for all the negative impact it had when it did land and how spammable it was if it missed.

Make no mistake, Illaoi's old E was unfair and unfun for the opponent. That's the reason it's not around anymore.

Niyumi1 votes

Umm... I donno about you, but I never had an issue dodging tentacles and killing 3 while CSing. I thought it was fun, made lane feel dangerous and interesting. Plus, they're stupidly easy to dodge.

But then, people don't like actual counterplay, and they don't want a challenge or to be punished if they fuck up, so... Gotta appease the whales.

rtbf309829112 votes

Sorry to be the one, but you're silver flex, unranked solo/duo, silver s5, gold s6. And in the thread you are actually resorting to the age old "pros arent that great, its just teamwork" that has NEVER been true in any game with a professional scene, its delusional.

And you're a Camille main at least from your match history. Seems like just another "gotta defend my champ" poster with very limited high end game knowledge that can be found on all game forums. Saw it in WoW with warriors/druids back in BC, saw in in SC2 with protoss all ins, etc.

Niyumi2 votes

Sorry, but rank is entirely irrelevant when you're talking about mechanics that don't change between ELOs (a champion's kit). And, considering that I have a ~3-4:1+ KDA on every champ I play, do my job well (whatever role that is), and play just about every champ in the game to a fairly high degree... on top of having 6000+ games at this point, I gotta say that my rank is kind of irrelevant. Coming from WoW and other MMOs myself, a game with 4 buttons and very limited mechanics is child's play, and there really isn't much that I don't know or can't beat. In fact, go ask Rainslight, who is in fact challenger. I played Kass into his main (Anivia), and came out of lane 15/2, snowballed my top and bot, but then lost because my bot lane started feeding (teams were imbalanced).

So yeah, I might not have a fancy diamond portrait or anything, but I face plats and diamonds on a regular basis, and can't really tell the difference -- and I've got more game knowledge and general mechanics than most people.

Anyway, when I watch the "pros" make plays I'd see in bronze, or fuck up worse than I do, then yeah, I'm goinna say they're not actually super good, they just have good macro play, and are good crowd pleasers. Believing that the pros are infallible is what's delusional.

No, I'm not a Camille main -- in fact, I don't have a main. I play every role, and I play nearly 100 champs, so I adapt to what my team needs, and what screws up the enemy's team comp. But, when I play all these champs, and beat Camille, then maybe there's something to it. Hell, if a silver / low gold like me can fight Camille and win, then why can't you, or any high ELO person?

Thing is, Camille isn't broken in the slightest. She's strong, sure, but she has a TON of counterplay, and is easy to beat if you have half a brain. Knowing that, I'd like to avoid them gutting her like they did Poppy (before people started abusing tank build, when she dropped to a <40% winrate), and making her less fun to play.

But then, I know that balance really isn't Riot's priority, so I know that if the whales keep crying, Riot will just go ahead and nerf her into the ground anyway. Such is the way of F2P.

Astôlfo1 votes

Hit her to make her auto you and bait out passive. Back off and then just trade again after passive is on cool down.

Save CC just for the Q2 really, once her legs start glowing.

Her W only slows and deals additional damage on outer ring, not inner (if I remember correctly). Make of that as you will.

Her E1 requires a wall to use E2, E2 range is halved without an enemy champion within its range, and a clearly visible indicator appears on the ground in the shape of a parenthesis mark showing the extent of her E2 range and where it's aimed (and as such, where it will hit).

Her R lasts 4 seconds, not 3. Ends if she exits but not if she's killed. SPELLSHIELDS block it. So does untargetability. It does not CC you in any other way so you can run around and force her to chase you (since she's melee) and waste time while team runs back in. A Banshee's or well-predicted Edge of Night spellshield can also prevent the knockback I think, for your teammates to better protect you.

Niyumi2 votes

{quoted}

Her R lasts 4 seconds, not 3.

Haha, thanks for the correction. xD Wasn't looking up exact numbers. Sure doesn't feel like four seconds when you use it though.

DaNinad1 votes

Use zed. He can escape mostly anything Camille does, out trade from a range, and I'm usually wrong about these things.

nm10101 votes

She went from a <50% winrate a month ago to a 56% winrate in diamond+ while also reaching record high pick/ban status (almost 90% of games).

https://i.gyazo.com/b4373c209ad90cfe02bcd41d51c96f4f.png

Niyumi3 votes

And that's the issue. Everyone bans her, so no one knows how to play against her. She's also played much less frequently when she's banned that much, and her winrate is inflated because of that.

I've also seen and played with/against a lot of plat+ players who are terrible at the game. So I don't know that plat+ is something to go off of.

nm10103 votes

I mean what do you want, she is basically permabanned in challenger do you think they are terrible at the game? People ban it for a reason, back when she was first released she had a 23% ban rate which is average for new champs and typically goes down over time. She instead went up in ban rate because she is simply too good at everything.

Niyumi3 votes

Well, I don't make a habit of watching challengers, but in LC$, I see people who make bronze plays, and aren't really mechanically any better than silver / gold. They have incredible macro play sure, and they work incredibly well as a team, but their microplay isn't always super great.

Camille requires a lot of microplay to play against, and she requires real counterplay, unlike a lot of champions. So, it's something they're not used to.

nm10101 votes

Ahahaha ok my man that's good enough for me, I'm not even going to try to argue with that level of misconception.

I'll leave you with this though, I've played with them (even the old rank 1 viper on his master smurf) and let me tell you there is a reason they are at the top of the ladder and not us.

Niyumi1 votes

I mean, if you wanna put them on a pedestal and treat them as infallible gods, you go for it. They can be bad though, and they do mess up.

nm10103 votes

They do mess up, but to even think for a second that they

aren't really mechanically any better than silver / gold

shows just how little you know about the difference in skill level between divisions.

Niyumi1 votes

No, just means I don't pretend they're better than they are. ANYONE can abuse Lee $in, Zac, Olaf, Elise, Ryze, ADCs, or any of the other bullshit champs they play. Their decision making and mechanical skill isn't that of a god, and they're oftentimes pretty bad, making bad plays and fucking up like I'd see in bronze.

Sure, some of them are good, but in every team, 3-4/5 are being carried by their champ and team.

nm10102 votes

Lol don't forget Camille is on their freelo pick/ban list and is much higher than anyone else you listed. The closest to her is Lee Sin who still has only a 77% pick/ban rate while Camille has almost a 90% with a higher winrate by ~6-7%.

Niyumi1 votes

Don't forget she's still new, and since she's banned so much, no one knows how to play against her.

nm10102 votes

Don't forget she started at a 25% ban rate like other new releases then people went up to the ~80% after they figured out she is too strong. Note they haven't had a champion follow that ban pattern in the last year, the closest to that was kindred on release who went up to ~60%.

Note the difference of 20% and kindred received multiple large nerfs over the next ~6 months to try to get her in line.

Niyumi1 votes

Bumping since I see more whiners popping up.

Niyumi1 votes

Bumping again, since I see another outbreak of whiners.

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