Can we like find a way to get rid of the ADC / Sup bot lane meta?

Phife··2 votes·702 views

#2010

(im not gonna lie, all of us were playing garen, ryze bot lane in 2009)

13 Comments

Strawberrycocoa3 votes

I suppose the best way to make that happen is to start a pro team, climb up to the LCS, and completely crush the competition with a different comp. ADC top, Tanky waveclearer Bot, Mage/Support mid, and jungle something, for example.

Alljoy1 votes

Or ADC top and bot with AP tank mid and duo roaming supp/jungler.

Strawberrycocoa1 votes

Triple top lane, mid and bot turtle and defend while tritop pushes hard

ProfDrDeath3 votes

Interestingly, ranged ADCs being "mandatory" is a combination of several core game mechanics:

  1. Having an ADC is highly beneficial for your ultimate goal of winning the game by having consistent damage to structures.

  2. Ranged ADCs also get promoted by Summoner's Rift's intrinsic map set-up. The map is works as a 5vs5, but only gives four gold and experience streams per team. This inherently means that two of the five players have to share one of the streams, as equal allocation between all five players is not possible due to time and space constraints (the 5th player can't be everywhere at once). It is possible to allocate all the gold in a shared stream to only one of the two players in it - simply by having the second one not lasthitting stuff. This is why, ideally, one of the partners in the shared lane does well even if he or she does not have access to much gold. Hence, the support is born. What just cannot be focused onto one of the players, however, is the experience. And this is the important point: Ranged, auto-attack AD based champions are the ones least affected by leveling more slowly. Why? Ability-based champions like Mages and Assassins want as much XP as possible to get the base damages of their abilities up. In most cases, buying items cannot beat getting one or two ranks more in your Q/W/E/R in the amount of extra damage you get. Melee champions and champions who want to be in the middle of the thick of things, on the other hand, want the increased base tankiness from additional levels - you get way more defensive stats per level than offensive ones (AD/lvl is between 3 and 4, mostly - HP, on the other hand, is between 70 and 100!). This leaves ranged, auto-attack based champions. Auto-attack DPS scales less than ability damage with XP, and moreso on items and therefore gold (BF is like, 10-15 time the AD/lvl value, while GB is like, 4-5 times?). And range is usually a rather consistent stat that does not increase with more levels, making your main safety mechanism fairly independant from experience.

If you'd want to shake up the meta, for example by putting a mage bot, how would said mage need to be set up? Low base damage increases per rank, one or even two spells which do not scale too well with additional levels (1-point wonders), ranged auto-attacks...

Phife1 votes

just have them solo lanes.

Linna Excel1 votes

Face of the Mountain and the things it is built out of now have unlimited charges and work with ranged attacks.

Done.

Strawberrycocoa1 votes

Fun fact, it DID work with Ranged auto attacks when it was first released.

They made the execution melee only to force an elemnt of risk for the easier last-hit. Previously, it was taken by BOTH bot laners to swiftly double up on the gold sharing.

And really, it still COULD be used for that, Ranged doesn't get the minion execute but they still get the other benefits.

IcyPepper1 votes

Supports aren't gold reliant, adc's are the most gold reliant. If you want to get rid of the adc+support meta, you either need to move the dragon pit, change the number of players, or make a new class that can act as a carry without gold (wait, that would be broken as hell WITH gold then).

This is a player thing, and the only way to get rid of it is to introduce something better. Riot doesn't have control over the meta, they can only influence it.

Facy1 votes

Make ADCs a little stronger early and give them sone tankyness... there u go no need for the ADC to have a support to make up for the horrible laning phase they got and ADCs can go solo finally without getting 1 shotted by nearly everything.

zane yalgir1 votes

you got my vote the supp role is easily the single worst role to get at the bronze level of ranked where 2 carry roles feeding is common

SIayton1 votes

Honestly I thought Azir might be the solution to MANDATORY ADC. Azir botlane does everything an ADC does. He has great consistent ranged damage, seige potential, does well with someone to peel, and scales incredibly well with items.

His design would allow a team to run a full AD comp and then have the magic damage bot lane without giving up seige. He's also super safe when played correctly and can self peel. Who doesn't want an ADC with a Janna ult? Imagine Azir Janna bot lane.... dear god the peel.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

They reason for adc-sup botlane is the dragon pressure. Remove dragon and add champions that can push objectives without the need of adc/ you will see different meta. Melee carries are also too weak compared to the ranged (their dmg output is fine, but they are unsafe to play the higher you go in the ladder, because chain cc and kiting is a thing). Look Yasuo, he was the only viable melee carry, but he is too snowbally and makes the game a hell for the enemy when fed - they nerfed him. If they make other alternatives to the adc, they would be op in Silver and Bronze. Kayle used to be good in 2v2 vs adc+sup, but nowadays she is not op, Azir and Cass can play bot too, but they are squishy and can get destroyed by aggressive support like Leona, Nautilus etc/

femmé1 votes

I mean it's just logic. You want to make sure your most important damage role stays protected right? Well then put them in a lane with some one who's job is to make sure you don't die. Really top lane could of been the bot lane meta. (i don't think there's a reason why)

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