Give udyrs shield mechanic to a light fighter class

Woook3r·Mar 4, 2016·1 votes·587 views

Im fine with scion and fiora having some things that keeps them viable against range like jinx, but they shouldnt have the SAME THINGS. Sion and fiora are both considered "melee", but scion has a range of problems that fiora just slides right past because of her gapcloser. So they are not the same. At all. Yet game after game they build the same or similar solutions.

If you ask me, FIORA should be the one with a temporary shield that makes her tanky and SCION should be the one that takes forever to kill. But they both take forever to kill.

I think they need to take a look at the way udyrs sheild mechanic worked and start giving stuff like that to light fighters, but underneath that mechanic, make them just as squishy as an adc.

12 Comments

AnratonMar 4, 20161 votes

Scion?? don't know that champ i mean Sion Sion ?

Sion is not a light fighter, he's a juggernaut. Fiora is a light fighter/diver, she is considered being some sort if squeshy

Woook3rMar 4, 20161 votes

Sorry. Scion is an actual word. More used to spelling it.

AnratonMar 4, 20161 votes

sorry shouldn't be an offense .. but my point is ... light fighers should be fragile, while juggernauts are (normally) slow

Woook3rMar 4, 20161 votes

fiora isnt fragile. She builds deadmans and titanic hydra.
Udyr's low cooldown sheild would give her the tools to engage in a skirmish without increasing her time to kill as much as it does when she stacks hp and armor.

A temporary shield makes you tanky for the duration of the shield only. Stacking hp and armor makes you tanky as hell for as long as you still have hp. Windows of opportunity n shit. Meaningful vulnerability n shit.

AnratonMar 4, 20161 votes

if foira had that shield .. what should she loose in exchange?

what she build if she doesn't neet dead mans and titanic ... more damage -> even more unbalanced

Woook3rMar 4, 20161 votes

well. Im not saying fiora would have the shield. However, I think you could force her into squishy builds without diminishing her viability too much if you did give her this mechanic. I would like to see both of the hydra items taken away from her. Shes not unbalanced if she builds dmg. Shes unbalanced if you cant kill her while she still has enough dmg to kill/assassinate the backline quickly.

The idea is that she is or would be "tanky" with this mechanic, but only temporarily due to the finite duration of the shield. Now. a small, but low cooldown shield would result in a champion that does well in skirmishes. That feels like fiora and other light fighters right? That champion would also have a way to resist to late game dps for a brief time, time and time again. The shield is intermittently available to soak that dps. This is what caused them to nerf udyr's shield, i think. Since udyr is so tanky, he cant have such a good anti dps mechanic.

However, squishy/semi-squishy champions with small shields are still susceptible to burst dmg. it is hard to dps her, but easy to burst her because all of the dmg comes thru at once. I guess the only flaw is that she would still be susceptible to focus fire, which is exactly like burst dmg. You could resolve that in the code however. Think parallel shields. Each champion who dmgs the shield sees a different shield. They cant gang up on the shield. Each champion wanting to focus her has to first take down the shield they see before they can touch her hp bar. So if her shield is for 300 hp late game, she would tank 5*300 dmg of focus fire. Thats pretty nice. In 1v1 duels, her shield is only worth 300 hp.

AnratonMar 4, 20161 votes

and how u prevent her building tanky if she has that shield? why not keep item path and abuse the additional shield? she has weeknesses and you can abuese them

Woook3rMar 4, 20161 votes

Im not sure. She can be kept out of the hydra class of items tho. Just reclassify those items as juggernaut items and put her in the light-fighter class. I was saying in other threads, her auto attack range is like 150, but her true range is more complicated because her dash is like an auto attack and has range and stuff. Champions like that shouldnt overlap with a champion like sion who should be building titanic hydra because it makes perfect sense for him.

Lol maybe if her dash range scaled negatively with her bonus hp. Thats the easy way, I guess. But something like that doesnt seem to be riots flavor of balance. There might be another way. Dont know right now. She should build a little hp I guess. Just not a lot. The time it takes for her to die is too long given her mobility and dmg.

I dont know. But I do like the idea of giving light fighters shields and giving kit-able champions really high hp pools. Not the other way around tho. Riven's shield is a good thing. The dash it gives is a bit much...lol but only in conjunction with her other dashes. I wonder what her kit would look like if only her shield was a dash, sat at a lower cooldown, gave a smaller shield, and her q was the same but without the mobility. You can do similar things compared to her current state bc you can ani cancel your dash w your q, but then you dont have another dash for I guess .7-1.2 seconds. But you do get another shield at that time. Its good for in and out fighting. Skirmishing. Dueling. But U can still be killed while under the effects of a decent cc. I really have a problem with high dmg fiora that wont die and isnt safe to attack unless she gets hit with a morg bind. Thats fucked..

Maybe the shield should look something like bonus_ad*lvl + 50. Give it a 2 second cooldown and let that scale down to 1.5 seconds if its a big shield late game. Has to build ad to get a decent shield. Also has to lvl up before its too significant.

AnratonMar 4, 20161 votes

Rivens shield blocks like ... 210 + any ad from items for 1.5 sec after activation .. anythin exeeding the former value will reduce her health pool.

Fioras W .... "Fiora parries all incoming damage, debuffs, and disables for the next 0.75 seconds and then stabs in the target direction." .. well you cant move but basically .. those .75 (half the duration of rivens shield) you can't die ... not evern to 1.000.000 true damage

Woook3rMar 4, 20161 votes

Yes. Make riv's shield a little smaller, but give it a lower cooldown. take dashes from her q so she doesnt have even more mobility.

Fiora's w is a one point wonder and has 0 influence on her build. It scales with nothing to my knowledge. I bet that if you made that scale with ad, then she would paradoxically be more killable because she would build more dmg and less defense.

Edit: I dont know what to do about fiora other than make something she desperately needs in her kit scale with ad. Maybe dash range. idk

AnratonMar 4, 20161 votes

do you watch lcs?

don't you think there is a reason, why Fiora IS in meta and Riven is not (dont even know if ever was)

Woook3rMar 5, 20161 votes

Yes. Riven isnt in meta because fiora beats her. Plain and simple. They do the same job, fiora scales better with titanic hydra and is therefore a safer pick. Repost > shield as well.