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There is no reason there shouldn't be 10 bans

Visigoth··56 votes·3,423 views

Whether it's a captain on each team banning 5 or one ban per person, there is no reason.

"Entire champion pools get banned out" Learn more than 10 champions. It's not that hard.

"They could ban out every meta pick" Stop being a meta following sheep, and again, LEARN MORE THAN 10 CHAMPIONS.

"One single role could get banned out" Firstly, that means the other 4 roles are completely untouched, which will almost never happen. And I can still easily list 10 champions I could play in my main role.

And before anyone asks, Hecarim Fiddlesticks Karthus Khazix LeeSin Maokai MasterYi Olaf Nocturne Pantheon RekSai Zac Udyr XinZhao. That is more than 10 and not the only champions I can play in the jungle. If you really main a role and are good at it, then you can play more than the same 2 champions.

There are 123 champions. We get 6 bans. You can ban out less than 5% of the champions. Consider that half are nowhere near ban worthy, that puts it at 10% of 'ban worthy' champions. And with 10 bans, there would only be 8% of the champion pool banned, with around 16% 'ban worthy,' or if you only consider a small portion ban worthy, then upward to 32%, IF you consider only 1/4 of the champions to be worth a ban at all (not saying OP, just annoying enough to merit a ban).

72 Comments

djjomon5 votes

What if you're put into a role you're not comfortable with? While I have 10+ champs in each role, I don't have 10+ comfort picks in each role. That means being comfortable on over 50 champions, if you never want to be banned out.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

Lulu fits into literally every role. If you learn flex picks you don't need anywhere near 50, and there are more flex picks than people give them credit for.

djjomon1 votes

And if she's banned? I'd ban Lulu every game if I had more bans, for the exact reason you said.

And yes, I actually do play Lulu in every role but jungle currently. Gonna work on that for the hell of it.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Then try kennen, he can play anywhere but jungle. (maybe jungle too i'm not sure....)

My point is that you don't need to learn 50 champs to get around this, about 25 would do. Currently you have to learn 20 just to get into ranked anyway so this isn't that out of line with the current system.

djjomon1 votes

He's one of many champs I need. Jungling him though... probably would have to start botside buff > scuttle > camp > back > next buff. Or something

gr8job1 votes

Morg, Karma, Ori, Syndra, Annie, and Liss are some other champions who can go support, top, and mid. TF can do everything but jungle (but haven't seen an ADC TF in a loooong time.) Many traditional top laners can jungle or mid, and most mids can go top. 10 bans seems like a fine thing to try out, and people should learn more flexible picks (of course, if you're REALLY skilled with a champion, you could probably take him anywhere.) But to correct OP, people should be learning over 19 champions, in case they get banned and picked out of all champions they know.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

TF jungle was run in competitive play by UoL a few months ago. IEM san jose i believe.

DropFill4 votes

{quoted}

What if you're put into a role you're not comfortable with? While I have 10+ champs in each role, I don't have 10+ comfort picks in each role. That means being comfortable on over 50 champions, if you never want to be banned out.

Do you REALLY think there is any possibility of them banning 10 champs for a single role that you are not comfortable with?

Biffolo3 votes

{quoted}

Do you REALLY think there is any possibility of them banning 10 champs for a single role that you are not comfortable with?

I think it is quite possible, and I would target ban a single role to hopefully force this scenario.

djjomon1 votes

This. How often do you see 3 random top lane bans, then a first pick top laner? I admit it would be rare to ban 10 champs out of one role. But it would be terrible if it did happen. And unfortunately, Riot has to work around those possibilities

DarthSpectrum5 votes

With 10 bans, the IP requirement for Ranked matches will rise significantly.

As well, it won't necessary solve any balance issues. With 2 more bans, a team can easily ban out the counters for a specific snow-balling champion. How would you fight a Nasus without powerful early game champions? What exactly can you do to Graves if the enemy team ban out Caitlyn and other long ranged ADCs?

I am all for trying out this 10 bans idea as a temporary mode; however, I am afraid that people are too focused on the positive sides of having 10 bans.

DropFill2 votes

{quoted}

With 10 bans, the IP requirement for Ranked matches will rise significantly.

As well, it won't necessary solve any balance issues. With 2 more bans, a team can easily ban out the counters for a specific snow-balling champion. How would you fight a Nasus without powerful early game champions? What exactly can you do to Graves if the enemy team ban out Caitlyn and other long ranged ADCs?

I am all for trying out this 10 bans idea as a temporary mode; however, I am afraid that people are too focused on the positive sides of having 10 bans.

We can make something like this : 3 bans => 2 picks for every team => 1 ban => 2 picks => 1 ban => pick

Volt Cruelerz3 votes

Just because I have ten mages I could play with relative comfort doesn't mean I could do the same in any other role. If I get stuck on jungle, I don't even own that many junglers. You'd have to own and be comfortable on eleven champions per role. I doubt even UOL goes that deep.

I can see this as a featured game mode where everyone in the game gets two bans and you're stuck using the rest, but in normal play, this would be disastrous.

AMYS GRAVE3 votes

if I get stuck on jungle, I don't even own that many junglers.

I bet more champions are viable in the jungle than you suspect if you are willing to think out of the box. Soraka comes to mind, the roaming healer giving all your laners great sustain, doesn't need too much gold to be effective, etc....

Biffolo1 votes

{quoted}

I bet more champions are viable in the jungle than you suspect if you are willing to think out of the box. Soraka comes to mind, the roaming healer giving all your laners great sustain, doesn't need too much gold to be effective, etc....

No. Soraka jungle is inferior to many jungle picks. No reason to play it over other things.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Who can pull off the roaming healer better than soraka? Your laners can poach your jungle camps and you don't mind. She has to take a supportive role like gragas jungle, but she is by no means inferior.

Aych Pii3 votes

Why should you be able to ban more than 10% of ban-worthy champions? Bans only exist so you can eliminate things you absolutely can't play against or that are absolutely overpowered, or possibly to eliminate specific counterpicks to the champion you're planning to pick. The current balance allows that to happen without punishing people for having somewhat narrow champion pools, since people who like to thoroughly master one champion should be allowed to play the game on equal standing with everybody else.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Why should you be able to ban more than 10% of viable champions?

You wouldn't be able to. You get 5 bans while the enemy team gets 5 bans. Each team would be able to ban 4% of champions.

10/124 = 8.1% < 10%.

Aych Pii1 votes

Using the OP's math here. Notice I specified "viable" which is by the OP's own definition about half of the roster.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

The OP never says that only half the roster is viable. Nearly all champions are viable somewhere.

Aych Pii1 votes

"There are 123 champions. We get 6 bans. You can ban out less than 5% of the champions. Consider that half are nowhere near ban worthy, that puts it at 10% of 'ban worthy' champions."

This is the passage I was referring to. I'll go ahead and amend my wording to "ban-worthy", since I seem to have misremembered the OP's wording. I don't think it affects the meaning or validity of my original post to make that change.

Gregor Gysi3 votes

Dude even 3 bans are too much for me. Usually I just ban Morgana, because she is annoying but then.. Sejuani is pretty annoying, but nowadays banned. Jinx could use a ban, but she always seems to lose in the enemy team (and stomps in my team lol). So I got only 1 ban and end up banning champions like Trundle/Fiddle just because they are somewhat annoying.

@OP: you are always talking about how people should learn to widen their champion pool. How about you learn how to deal with champions? There is literally no reason to ban that many champions. The only thing that you would accomplish is simply shifting the FOTM champions. For every FOTM champions that's going to have a 99% banrate there will come a new FOTM champion, which won't see play any more. It's also extremely frustrating for players who enjoy a champion, that sadly got FOTM - they won't be able to pick him - at all!

The 3 bans are in my opinion only relevant to accomplish 2 things: 1: competetive variety and strategic decisions 2: banning champions that are extremely broken because they are new/reworked/somehow extremely overbuffed

But what they get used to is 3: banning the FOTM champions that get picked in the LCS.

Instead of having more bans there should be the option not to ban anything without waiting so long.

tl;dr: more bans =/= larger playpool. FOTM simply gets shifted, some champions are practically out of the pool in 70%-99% of the games. Instead of telling people to learn more champions, the complainers should learn to deal with more champions. The main difference between 6 bans and 10 bans is only in the latter some champions are actually impossible to play.

r11na3 votes

Many people do not want 10 bans. Thats reason enough. It would take ages to ban and start a match. Some players only use 2-3 champions because thats what they enjoy, being able to completely ban out the entire champion pool of a player is BS.

Definitely against any increase in the number of bans.

kcStranger1 votes

Agreed. The way I see it, banning isn't really that strategic (in terms of targeting bans at specific players) in solo queue, and given that I don't really like the idea of people randomly getting their whole champion pool banned out, or almost literally never getting to play a champion they like. The main purpose for having bans is to provide a safety net against broken champions. (And truly broken champions do occur from time to time.) 3 bans per side is more than enough for this purpose.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

{quoted}

Agreed. The way I see it, banning isn't really that strategic (in terms of targeting bans at specific players) in solo queue, and given that I don't really like the idea of people randomly getting their whole champion pool banned out, or almost literally never getting to play a champion they like. The main purpose for having bans is to provide a safety net against broken champions. (And truly broken champions do occur from time to time.) 3 bans per side is more than enough for this purpose.

If someone's entire champion pool gets banned then they need to stop abusing only what's popular or copying LCS.

Reminds me of my last game. "Don't ban Sejuani shes my only jungle." Really? I bet she wasn't your only jungle a few months ago.

kcStranger1 votes

I agree that shouldn't happen very often at all if you're not being an idiot (having at least 3 champions at every role, making sure all of them aren't likely bans). But it is something that still can happen, especially if you're playing a role that isn't your main (where maintaining a large champion pool isn't practical), and I don't really like the idea of making it more frequent, even if it's a matter of 2% of the time vs. 0.5% of the time or something like that.

I guess the main issue is that I just don't value what having extra bans would give you, so almost any downside to having extra bans is enough to make me jump ship. I understand a lot of people disagree with this.

BerserkGoldfish1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Penguin Eclipse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AjUxA56I,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2015-04-23T16:31:39.516+0000)

If someone's entire champion pool gets banned then they need to stop abusing only what's popular or copying LCS.

Reminds me of my last game. "Don't ban Sejuani shes my only jungle." Really? I bet she wasn't your only jungle a few months ago.

there actually was a following of Sejuani jgers long before cinderhulk. There was a little gap, but when spirit of the ancient golem used to provide bonus hp like cindehulk does now, she was just as strong. probably even better since the other bonuses it gave

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

{quoted}

there actually was a following of Sejuani jgers long before cinderhulk. There was a little gap, but when spirit of the ancient golem used to provide bonus hp like cindehulk does now, she was just as strong. probably even better since the other bonuses it gave

She was strong. But she had a 2% pickrate and less than 1% banrate. Hardly anyone played her for several years until recently. Now everyone is a Sejuani main or can only play her and maybe 1 other jungler.

BerserkGoldfish2 votes

Like "oh, I can ban cait, jinx, varus, Lucian, and corki? well, now they wont have the range to prevent my duo bruiser/duo tank botlane from jumping on them."

Visigoth15 votes

{quoted}

Like "oh, I can ban cait, jinx, varus, Lucian, and corki? well, now they wont have the range to prevent my duo bruiser/duo tank botlane from jumping on them."

Draven Ashe Kalista KogMaw Quinn Tristana Vayne Twitch MissFortune Ezreal SivirGraves Wow look at all these melee ADCs. Not to mention the melee Annie Karma Sona Velkoz Zyra Soraka Lulu Thresh supports who can't harass melees at all.

Another reason why we SHOULD have more bans, so people like you stop thinking there's only 5 viable ADCs.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Gangplank Kayle Kennen Lulu Urgot all work in the adc position as well

Anivia Ashe Bard Brand Cassiopeia Chogath DrMundo Fiddlesticks Gangplank Gnar Gragas Kayle Kennen Lissandra Lux Malphite Morgana Nami Orianna Ryze Shen Sion Soraka TwistedFate Viktor Volibear Ziggs all can harass well from the support position and have abilities that can keep bruisers off your carry against a double bruiser/tank lane.

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb5 votes

God forbid it opens up some potential alternate comps in bot lane.

rebound21 votes

Lucian has range?

Please do repeat that.

BerserkGoldfish1 votes

{quoted}

Lucian has range?

Please do repeat that.

He has a dash and his poke (q and e) both have ridiculously high ranges.

March of Dimes2 votes

Or you just break the bans into phases like dota does, so you can pick up an ADC (for example) before they ban them all. This would also protect pro players from having their entire champ pool banned out.

Drunk Rummate2 votes

currently I ban Katarina Katarina Katarina

with this change i could ban Katarina Katarina Katarina Katarina Katarina

How exciting!!!

BerserkGoldfish1 votes

not gonna lie, I would just ban out ADCs and take a gapcloser bot lane

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb2 votes

Gonna have a hard time with that unless the other team does the same

Virgin Ray1 votes

Dude, you would be wasting time over games and wasting IP for buying champs that you probably don't even wanna play. The chances of someones main being banned would triple. I can tell you champions are very expensive. It takes up to like a year to earn even 3 6300 champs.

BerserkGoldfish1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kenji Chang,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AjUxA56I,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-04-23T01:34:44.994+0000)

Dude, you would be wasting time over games and wasting IP for buying champs that you probably don't even wanna play. The chances of someones main being banned would triple. I can tell you champions are very expensive. It takes up to like a year to earn even 3 6300 champs.

if you play once a day maybe, its easy to get like 200 ip for a win, more if its first win of the day, boosts, whatever (baron, drags, game time)

im sure theres people that play the game little enough, but for a lot people 6300 ip takes like a month at max.

IcyPepper1 votes

New players at level 30 would require twenty champions in order to play ranked, and considering IP prices among runes and champions alike... it would make new players wary.

I think it might be partly marketing and getting new players into ranked that keeps Riot with 6 bans right now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not on Riot's staff.

Dalthine1 votes

Personally I'm for ten bans just because they can then distribute them among the team members and I don't have to do it all myself with everyone screaming at me if I'm first pick.

I swear it feels like I get first pick half of games I play and I hate it.

MaizeCraze1 votes

*124 champions.

Just so I know where you are coming from, who do you ban with 6 picks?

Who would you ban with 10?

MićaĆomlaDJ1 votes

Reason: First picking would become the most broken thing ever. Let's you you want to play Zed and like the enemy team for somereason won't ban it. You could literely ban out Kayle and Lissandra and then ban 3 op / meta picks, so you wouldn't have very minimal risk to blind pick what ever champ you want, because you can just ban out the most popular counter to that certin champ.

Zed was just an example

1011001110001 votes

Why the fuck is everyone up in arms about "10 champs in a role being banned"? You can't even communicate with the enemy team during champion select, so somehow both team captains would have to be having the same idea.

If you main over 5 midlaners, tell your goddamn team what they are so they don't all get banned. If you only main 2 champions in every other role, let your godddamn team know. It's called COMMUNICATION. There is no reason every single champion in your main role should be getting banned.

FlamingFrostbite1 votes

There is no reason to not have 10 bans? Well can you tell me a reason that we should? Why should we have more bans? What would that help with?

Plorpmeister1 votes

This sounds great for premades, but awful for solo.

Venowolf1 votes

So you now need a minimun of 20 champs to rank, I like the idea, but I prefer that every player have a ban, I mean 10 players each one ban 1 champ.

Thughlife1 votes

Yes its time to raise the bans with so many champions. In this rotating game mode its always shaco fizz heimer illaio all those annoying champs are too good. In Summoners Rift there are always op picks to ban + champions you dont want your allies too play + annoying champs like shaco. Give everyone 1 ban 10 bans total per game plz riot

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