Is getting his mobility nerfed....again.
His damage has already been nerfed
His durability has already been nerfed
His mana costs have already been nerfed
His scaling has already been nerfed
Gee, I guess mobile 
champions
doing lots of 
damage 
is probably something riot considers bad. It's a good thing Kassadin is the only one who this applies to- Oh.
Sailor Mint35 votes50 nerfs later, Kassadin is still permabanned. Not even Irelia comes close to that feat.
Nobody actually thinks Lee Sin is overpowered. But since he's anti-Irelia, gotta keep that circle jerk going.
HateDaddy18 votes[{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AhwyINVN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-18T00:42:22.277+0000)
50 nerfs later, Kassadin is still permabanned.
Not even Irelia comes close to that feat.
So is Nidalee after her thousands of nerfs and reworks then random buffs
But I guess it's ok for her to keep her mobility, damage and general annoyingness because muh waifu kitty and lcs big spears, wow da playZ.
Sailor Mint4 votesOutside of HotshotGG targeted bans. Did Nidalee even draw bans when she was "overpowered"?
HateDaddy18 votes[{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AhwyINVN,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-18T00:45:51.400+0000)
Outside of HotshotGG targeted bans. Did Nidalee even draw bans when she was "overpowered"?
Yes lol
Wheatloaf25 votesI will never forget the Dark Age of the Nuclear-Tipped Telephone Poles...
Chaotic Reks8 votesfuck you boards, why can't i upvote this more than once
Troy2426215 votesWhat, you mean her semitruck full of thermonuclear warheads pretending to be a Prius?
Retillin9 votes[{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AhwyINVN,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-18T00:45:51.400+0000)
Outside of HotshotGG targeted bans. Did Nidalee even draw bans when she was "overpowered"?
... What? You mean know or over the past few years? The answer to both is yes by the way.
Narasimha17 votesAnd yet, people weren't saying this before she could jungle. Even though literally NOTHING changed except she could now hunt Jungle creeps.
AxlStream4 votesSame thing for J4 really. He didn't get buffed during Season 5, he was always decent. Last buff he had was a small increase to his Golden Aegis shield value. Now Season 5 rolls up and he's suddenly top tier? Sounds to me top tier got lowered all together.
Narasimha9 votesVery close actually. Its just that with S5, a lot of other junglers took hits where it mattered. Jarv was always a generalist, and right now is where generalists shine.
AxlStream3 votesExactly. That's what all good picks in soloQ got right now. A mix of everything. Also what makes them popular is the fact they fit litterally any role with the item changes. Need a tank? Have some Juggernaut enchant! Want to deal tons of damage? Here's a Warrior enchant! The new jungle item changes just favor picks that can adapt to being something else than their first intended use out of safety. If Zac could do a bit more damage when building AP, you'd see him be top tier in a matter of hours given how flexible his build paths would be.
1999 01 1714 votesAnd yet, people weren't saying this before she could jungle. Even though literally NOTHING changed except she could now hunt Jungle creeps.
jungle nidalee is even more annoying than lane nidalee
Rinky Dinky4 votesShe just sits in the bushes and throws shit at you.
She might be the best jungler to camp a lane with :')
SelflessTeammate5 votesI consider it a dick move to check someone's profile before replying to them, it feels like stalking, but I'm gonna take a stab and say you're way higher elo than me. Having said that, while I agree with you, in Silver, the near-universal bans are Akali, Katarina, Zed, and Fizz.
Also very common, though, are Blitzcrank, Tristana, and Warwick. I can't believe how common Blitzcrank, Akali, and Warwick are, considering that I don't consider them particularly problematic at all. Seems like a total waste of a ban, because I'd pick Kalista, Jarvan, Pantheon, or even Sivir over them every time.
All the champs you just mentioned are almost never banned at my average-level play, maybe one out of 15-20 times, if that. To be honest, the only champ I find to be desperately problematic is Katarina, because once she starts going, she's nearly impossible to stop unless we're loaded with enough CC to stop her before she comes in for a Lotus.
It Hertz When IP4 votesBlitz is probably from the fact that if he lands his Q after level 6, you may as well open up the shop window, cause you're about to die; 2 hard and one soft CC chained back to back means that unless the enemy ADC is completely unaware of Blitz's play or your laning partner is ready to save your butt, you're dead.
Akali tends to snowball. Well, used to tend to snowball. I don't know how well she's doing now, don't see her that often.
Warwick is probably still being banned from back when he pretty much dominated the jungle; even Lee Sin was hard-pressed to keep up with him. He's not QUITE as powerful now, but he's still a solid choice.
SelflessTeammate1 votesI'm primarily a jungler, and Nocturne's one of my favorite picks, so Blitzcrank generally isn't a problem for me and I can sometimes bait him into using it before a team-fight. But regardless of who I'm playing, you can pretty much tell when Blitz is going to use his Q, which is when he activates his W. It's kind of a dead giveaway when he does that so he can get a better shot. And of course, if he's running toward you for any reason, it's extremely unlikely he's trying to 1v1 you. Blitz naturally doesn't tend to travel alone.
Akali does tend to snowball if left unattended, but for the first time in almost forever, I'm seeing people ban Diana now, because they share similarities (their ults are nearly identical, and they both benefit a lot from "marking" targets first).
Warwick, I'm not sure. He can get annoying, but Infinite Duress got hit so hard, he doesn't have anywhere near the same level of ganking power he used to. Not that he's not a competent jungle pick, but I don't consider him overpowered, and if I go against him, I feel a lot better than if I see, say, a Jarvan, a Lee Sin, or a Vi.
Still, totally granted, if someone has a Blitz and they know how to use them well enough to not give clear indicators when they're about to Rocket Fist you, that can quickly bring your best carrier down and cost you the whole match if it's late enough in the game.
It Hertz When IP1 votesBlitz isn't an issue for junglers, but as the support I can tell you that bot lane against a Blitz is several orders of magnitude more tense than laning against any other support, even Thresh. Because everyone else with a hard CC just CCs you where you are (for me, behind my minions within flash distance of my tower. Blitz lands his signature CC Q on you, you're no longer in safety because he just pulled you into HIS zone of comfort.
Also, I don't know about other people but the few times I played him I had no issues with charging my W as/after landing Q and landing the knockup.
Troy2426211 votesBeing a professional pick in addition to one of the most common casual picks, on top of having a high ban rate at every level of play for 3 straight seasons? Yeah I might take issue a little bit. His design is just horrible. The only counterplay in Lee Sin's kit is all the tools HE has to "Outplay," others.
Malgana1 votes[{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AhwyINVN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-18T00:42:22.277+0000)
50 nerfs later, Kassadin is still permabanned. Not even Irelia comes close to that feat.
Nobody actually thinks Lee Sin is overpowered. But since he's anti-Irelia, gotta keep that circle jerk going.
Riot has openly admitted that Lee is way too strong for the health of the game, but that they wont nerf him because of "community backlash" due to his huge playerbase, which was generated because people always flock to the most BS FotM thing that they can in any type of game.
Only difference is that Lee is more flavor of the forever.
Mandang019 votesIt'll be a cold day in hell before I feel pity for Kassadin nerfs.
TheFrozenIsles3 votesAman my friend.Aman.
Major Sparkles3 votesAmen*
HateDaddy11 votesIt'll be a cold day in hell before I feel pity for Kassadin nerfs.
Why?
I'd much rather face this brand of Kassadin than deal with Nidalee and play dodge a spear until my squishy target is hit, we are forced to give up tower or an objective because of it and she's impossible to engage on. I'd rather face this form of Kassadin than go back to AFK wave clearers like zigggs, Orianna and Xerath (who is still good). I'd rather face this Kassadin than go to what's likely coming in next, the Lux and Anivia AFK wave clearers who AoE one shot your team. At least you know where Kassadin is going to be and can react to him. I can keep trying to react to Anivia and Lux snares or their aoe but eventually someone will get stunned/snared and die or if we engage on them, we have to get melted through their aoe first. I'd much rather face Kassadin now than Zed who free farms, hits 6, kills our mid laner and mauls our carry in every fight and we can never pin down.
The only reason he's so valued in competitive play is he's safe and he's good against burst ap casters mid (AND NIDALEE HEH). I barely play Kassadin, but I consider him much less problematic at this point than pretty much everything we've had to see.
Mandang04 votesWhy?
I'd much rather face this brand of Kassadin than deal with Nidalee and play dodge a spear until my squishy target is hit, we are forced to give up tower or an objective because of it and she's impossible to engage on. I'd rather face this form of Kassadin than go back to AFK wave clearers like zigggs, Orianna and Xerath (who is still good). I'd rather face this Kassadin than go to what's likely coming in next, the Lux and Anivia AFK wave clearers who AoE one shot your team. At least you know where Kassadin is going to be and can react to him. I can keep trying to react to Anivia and Lux snares or their aoe but eventually someone will get stunned/snared and die or if we engage on them, we have to get melted through their aoe first. I'd much rather face Kassadin now than Zed who free farms, hits 6, kills our mid laner and mauls our carry in every fight and we can never pin down.
The only reason he's so valued in competitive play is he's safe and he's good against burst ap casters mid (AND NIDALEE HEH). I barely play Kassadin, but I consider him much less problematic at this point than pretty much everything we've had to see.
Who said I thought Nidalee was healthy? Lux and Anivia were never problematic to the extent Kassadin was, and I think it's telling that no one else on your list has been banned as much or as reliably over a long period of time as Kassadin. Ziggs and Xerath have had shorter periods of favor, but I'll agree they're annoying when strong. Orianna's been top-tier seemingly forever, but she's almost never ban worthy because players can actually be punished for making mistakes with her. The Nid/Zed/Kass's of the game don't have this drawback.
"At least I know where Kassadin is going to be" - No! No, I don't, because he's very mobile and can jump walls, so the same wards I plant to deal w/ immobile champions cover a lesser amount of where Kass can be hiding, waiting to pop in, pop my carry, and pop out scot free.
Everything else on your list is going to come down to personal preference, but I think it's a flimsy defense when all you can say for Kassadin is that he's possibly not worse than Zed/Nid/etc. Those of us who play immobile champs think you're all bull, so you won't get much sympathy from me by saying X mobile champ is a bit stronger than Kass.
HateDaddy7 votesWho said I thought Nidalee was healthy? Lux and Anivia were never problematic to the extent Kassadin was, and I think it's telling that no one else on your list has been banned as much or as reliably over a long period of time as Kassadin. Ziggs and Xerath have had shorter periods of favor, but I'll agree they're annoying when strong. Orianna's been top-tier seemingly forever, but she's almost never ban worthy because players can actually be punished for making mistakes with her. The Nid/Zed/Kass's of the game don't have this drawback.
"At least I know where Kassadin is going to be" - No! No, I don't, because he's very mobile and can jump walls, so the same wards I plant to deal w/ immobile champions cover a lesser amount of where Kass can be hiding, waiting to pop in, pop my carry, and pop out scot free.
Everything else on your list is going to come down to personal preference, but I think it's a flimsy defense when all you can say for Kassadin is that he's possibly not worse than Zed/Nid/etc. Those of us who play immobile champs think you're all bull, so you won't get much sympathy from me by saying X mobile champ is a bit stronger than Kass.
I'm referring to the Kassadin of now, which is vastly different than old Kassadin, who deserved his perma bans.
And you know why people hate playing against him? Because he punishes stupid play. An ADC shouldnt be AFK farming by themselves without vision yet they persist to do it. Leblanc does the same thing but bursts you harder faster, why no outrage for her?
I know Kassadins teamfight is largely based on cleaning up, so if his team isn't ahead by miles, he can be dealt with. I know Kassadins wave clear sucks so we can actually shove on him. Kassadins early lane phase is very poke oriented, I don't have to worry about him 100-0ing my mid at level 2 (LEBLANC). There are ways to play around him now, even if he is too strong, which is easily possible, this is not the answer. This is too fucking far.
TonyTonyMordecai1 votesI enjoy playing as the immobile champs because it allows me to be closer to my enemy, and plus everyone is scared of Annie or Jinx being too close to anyone without anyone doing anything about it. Spell Vamp Annie is pretty funny tbh
ArkenStorm4 votesafk wave clearers like xerath? oh except he can ALSO chunk a quarter of your health while 1-shotting the minion wave after he has his rod. no biggie. ;) btw i main xerath
TonyTonyMordecai1 votesAny tips for someone who wants to get into Xerath after playing as immobile champs like Annie and Twisted Fate? I would add Ahri but she's mobile... And I only played as Anivia in nemesis draft, but I want to get the ice Phoenix sometime soon :D
Antemos Xaos3 votesYour Q does sizable damage and isn't blocked by minions, abuse this. If you end up against Yasuo in lane, take points in w, because his wind wall will not stop it. use E whenever your opponent peeks their face out of the minion wave, then follow up with the rest of your combo for near deletion.
Also your passive is amazing in lane, pop a minion, or if he's close and can't retaliate, the enemy champion whenever its up.
R is the hardest thing to hit.
ArkenStorm1 votesactually if you lead well it's not hard, especially with rylais. refer to my comment above replying to his in case you have questions.
ArkenStorm1 votesyour build should be(in no particular order): rabadons, rylais, morellos/archangels(only if you really feel like you could use the extra ap and you dont need the grievous wounds. very rarely should you ever get this), sorc shoes, zhonyas, and void staff. DO NOT try to build liandrys, its just not worth it on xerath. it CAN be nice with rylais, but its better to have more ap because you are throwing massive lasers that kill people quite easily. also make sure you get your passive off almost whenever, it helps more than you think. if you can in safety, hit the enemy champion(if theyre running away or something) for the double mana return. stay behind the minion waves and basically farm for rod(I usually go for rabadons first because your clearing power is insane with it), try to conserve mana unless you can 1) kill multiple minions AND hit a champion with your q or 2)go all in and get the kill FOR SURE, meaning you can ult as they are getting away.
TonyTonyMordecai1 votesRange and power is something I personally value more than mobility, because if when you get away, but are still getting hit, mobility doesn't mean squat anymore. Plus range allows me to be defensive while still doing harass and poke damage. Thanks for the build path, I really needed this. I have no clue how to build mages sometimes, especially assassins, I have no clue what items make assassins so much stronger than their lane partners too often. The more you know!
mi ramfan8 votesThis is probably the most ridiculous change in this PBE cycle so far.
Like, maybe if Kassadin was being played a lot I could see this. But he's not even being picked that much! At the moment, he's already the model of a mobile champion paying the proper price for their extreme mobility...why nerf him even more?
Stephenizgod3 votesWell apparently, according to some diamond and master players i talked to, Kassadin is extremely strong at higher elos. He, apparently, does not have anyone who directly counters him late game, but the trade-off is that pretty much everyone counters him early game. They also said that he is pretty much perma-banned, because whenever he gets into a game he becomes unstoppable at a certain point.
This is stuff ive heard from several different players on both this account and my PBE account.
Rinky Dinky2 votesThis is true people. Stop downvoting shit because it hurts your bum.
Kass is a very very very strong champion still.
Whether or not this nerf is justified is a 100% different topic.
Sightless664 votesAt high elo, Kassadin is absolutely insane. He plays very safely early on, using Q and E to farm with the big mana restore he gets from W, and then he eventually just turns into a nightmare that no one can stop because only long stuns can stop him (and I mean something over 3 seconds, which just doesn't exist in the game anymore). He draws a lot of bans because you just can't hurt him enough in top-lane to stop him from dominating the game when he gets any kind of power.
Juggernaut Jesus6 votesIt's pretty clear Riot doesn't want Kassadin existing as a champion.
Haunt5 votesI agree lets cut Lee Sin's q and w range in half.
And his ult damage.
While we're at it, increase all of his cooldowns too!
Downvotes inc because "stfu he's fine J4 is more op therefore Lee sin is balanced because he's not #1"
Rinky Dinky2 votesIf these kass changes go through, Lee Sin should have his range cut in half.
For the sake of balance of course
Tips Fedora
AquariusGine3 votesOh god.. this nerf.. I'm speechless
Risurin3 votesyeah he got a lot of nerfs already, still a high tier flexible pick.
Rinky Dinky2 votesI don't know why this is getting downvoted.
Its true.
Are you people going to argue that Kass is not a high tier pick right now? :3
Risurin2 votesI don't know why this is getting downvoted.
Its true.
Are you people going to argue that Kass is not a high tier pick right now? :3
i think maybe he the lower tier he isnt as contested, since his early is still weak and its easy to harass him when he tries to cs (also a lot of people go for dRing instead of flask when they need more sustain)? idk . ¯_(ツ)_/¯
ForgiveColour2 votes700 range 2 second flash is too op, but nerfing itto 450 is pretty dumb guess rito just wants to indirectly buff adc even more
The Soulforged1 votesHecarim? Edit: Buff Hecarim!
Economicz1 votesThe one? Riot has said that Ezreal is about poke and mobility
Kingsgrave1 votesLiterally every champion that gets nerfed gets a complaint thread on these boards.
Even Warwick got a complaint thread about Riot nerfing him when he was super fucking toxic at the start of preseason 5.
NorthernDruid1 votesIf they nerf him to the point where he can't do stuff like the epic backdoor anymore, then it's too far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooozyf5y5t8
I don't care about how obnoxious he is or whatever, the game needs those things in them.
I mean, if he needs tuning fine, but removing one of the best plays in the game from happening again is just mean. It'd be like limiting Ashe's ult in range so she can't pull off clutch arrows across the map anymore. Or if when they remade Soraka her ult was revamped and no longer gave her a global team heal.
And... and.. I dunno, I can't really think of enough examples, but still, it's one of those things where it feels a lot better if those achievable things stay possible, we all dream of landing an almost impossible arrow and turning a fight around. We all want to be in position to dance around the nexus in a desperate effort to get it down before we're finally caught, and have a chance of managing to do so.
Game balance isn't only about what strengths and potential a champion has to do well in combat, it's also about what inspiration you can give the players, what limits they can stretch themselves to and what potential is there for them.
New Soraka gives me a much stronger ability to clutch save people, I can rush up, and get several of my teammates from low to high health, and if I build for it with summoners (
) and items(
) , and I land my Qs, I can be relatively healthy myself. I have to work for it, but I can turn the game around.
And any champion should be defined by how they turn a game around, whether it's something mechanically intensive they excel in, or something tactical or strategical.
