Aatrox needs to hit 2 spells and 9 autos to activate passive

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AgVwUFEd,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-11T02:40:37.277+0000)

sure. the counter play to attroxes passive is that you can kill him while he has zero stacks and unless he lives a very long time or gets fortunate with his ult he cant stack his revive in time to save himself. also the duration of bloodrush is very harsh on him and very forgiving on the enemy. 4 seconds out of combat with enemy champs is really really forgiving for the person trying not to fight him. its a little harder in a late game teamfight but early in the game with scirmishes its pretty laughable really. and so the problem happends when he works super hard to even get the revive at a good time and then he has like a 3-2 minute wait before he can actually do it again. the passive would be fine on someone who has a ton of damage in their kit already but with aatrox you have to sacrifice defensive items early otherwise you will be little more then a melee minion sustaining like crazy during a teamfight. and as your super squishy the passive is very usefull to help you out in teamfights cause you can go balls deep and have a GA before most other people can afford to pick it up. and now its a trap kinda where you cant actually go balls to the wall early because of how long it takes to stack your passive and how fast you die.

so idea 1 was basically If he has blood rush (his passive up) he will always revive with an internal cooldown of like 10-15 seconds between revives to keep him in check from reviving multiple times in a teamfight (altho with how long it takes to stack the passive I am not sure the internal cooldown would be needed but there it is.) And Idea two is basically it worked the same way as it used too with the exception of having the blood rush instead of the perma bonus attack speed.

its just frustrating that every other champion with a revive can either use it on cooldown or cast it and it happends. and aatrox has a cooldown as well but also has to jump through a ton of hoops to even make it work if it isnt on cooldown.

Ok thanks, I think ur right. Some of these things I realized were problems as well, and I think they are more of inherent problems than opportunities for the enemy to counter play against Aatrox. Basically its Riot saying,

"Here are Aatrox's new weaknesses, now u know how to abuse them."

Thats not really counterplay thats abusing Aatrox's assigned weaknesses which are there to balance him passive's strength. There is so much more potential for real counter play if the passive is done in a way that gives both Aatrox and the enemy equal footing for a majority of the time.

Counter play should be based on the decisions and actions that each player takes against each other, whether it be based on the environment, or what action the other player took. Each decision should have its pros and cons, that will allow either player to gain the upper hand. And when a player makes the right decisions and out plays the enemy they should be rewarded, meaning they should gain the CLEAR advantage. I could give u some good examples of passives that I think offer great opportunities for counter play and why I think that if u want to know. I would like to argue that counter play shouldn't be limited to abusing a kits given weakness, that is just so empty and sad.

I also think that Riot has given his passive the wrong kinds of gating mechanisms/balance measures that aren't really fun or engaging for anyone and the game play and game health suffers for that. I went through and explained a lot of this in my comment in Riot's recent post on him and in my own post:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/U6PpUy4F-aatroxs-potential-thematically-and-mechanically

See all the enemy can when up against Aatrox what u said, get him at zero or back off when he has is at full. That's not really giving the enemy an opportunity to interact with Aatrox, its really more of a choice of when to abuse Aatrox.

On to ur 1st revive passive idea. Ur saying that his revive is always on a short CD? And he gets the revive if Blood Rush is active? I am not sure thats a good idea, sure Aatrox has to do a lot to gain the revive, but that CD seem awfully short. Yes I know it takes him a long time to get it but that only adding 6 sec (correct me if I am wrong) before he gets it why should that justify him getting a 10-15 sec CD revive. Perhaps it would be better if every time Aatrox Blood Rushed he reduced the CD of his Revive by 10-15 sec. That way he can still get the revive faster, and using Blood Rush will feel more meaningful.

"its just frustrating that every other champion with a revive can either use it on cooldown" u meant use the revive when its off CD (no restrictions right?) And I understand that, I think Riot is trying to balance the fact that unlike those other champions, Aatrox's revive ability also has combat buffs attached to it.

I think that with the problems u pointed out, you might like the new passive ideas that I have come up with in my post.

Oh my argument doesn't really consider Darius I just think his passive as is feels really bad unless you're not being punished for pushing the wave to keep it up Even if you AA the enemy laner, you're still pushing because the enemy minions will hit you instead of your own

This also doesn't take into consideration ranged champions who always gave him a hard time But now that his base damages were nerfed, his early game cheese is alot worse so he can't even handle them as well as before