like 20% of magic damage dealt to Monsters back as Mana over time or something
Basically give Mage Junglers Morello's lmao
Add 
to the recipe for the Enchantment
So mage junglers that are severely mana starved can actually Jungle viably
Silents4299 votesI want a new Magus, but no way in hell is it a good idea for the item to have mana regen on top of 80 AP and 20% CDR
It needs mana and mana regen, but the other stats are way to high.
Hilltop Sunset12 votesI would gladly lose 10% CDR to gain mana regen. :D
air tiger1 votesWhen I read the OP, this is exactly what came to mind! I'm not sure exactly what the mana income would be but I don't think it would need to be enormous to really help the junglers who would use it. +50% mana regen or 2%/5% of damage dealt to small/large monsters converts to mana - something to that effect.
Then again, there's blue buff. Who knows, hahaha.
The Chaperone19 votesI want a new Magus, but no way in hell is it a good idea for the item to have mana regen on top of 80 AP and 20% CDR
It needs mana and mana regen, but the other stats are way to high.
Isn't that what morello does?
ChaoticPinecone1 votesso for less gold, a easier build path (which jungler doesnt start machete?), and a smite active you want to create an item thats the same as morellomicon.
Fisk2 votesBut also, jungle items usually need to be really slot efficient (coughcinderhulkcough) and gold efficient so that junglers can deal with having a lower income (generally) than laners.
ChaoticPinecone3 votescinderhulk is strong, dont get me wrong. however, its strength doesnt come at the purchase - it comes lategame with the %HP scaling. While it is often cost efficient at purchase, its not extremely cost efficient. its 100% cost efficient at 600 hp or so. If you get it at level 6, its usually around 120% cost efficient (assuming 900 HP).
The Magus already gives a insane powerspike at purchase (170% cost efficient). Adding 100% mana regen would make it 220% cost efficient.
Fisk1 votesThats what I meant by slot efficient. A lot of magus power is in that initial buy and most mages can't really use that since they really need to stack AP before they are great. I don't think Magus is really that slot efficient personally
Loken Stoneheart1 votesI want a new Magus, but no way in hell is it a good idea for the item to have mana regen on top of 80 AP and 20% CDR
It needs mana and mana regen, but the other stats are way to high.
Silents4291 votesYes now add those stats to the magus, and for a cheap price of little over 4000 gold.
Loken Stoneheart1 votesYes now add those stats to the magus, and for a cheap price of little over 4000 gold.
720 gold for the mana regen. For the cheap price of just under 3000 gold.
YOU BEEN WARNED6 votesヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ Give Spirit Stone Back or We Riot ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
thescrubbybub4 votes[{quoted}](name=YOU BEEN WARNED,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AgFsKLrv,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-06-09T16:12:35.226+0000)
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ Give Spirit Stone Back or We Riot ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
Amumu cries alone in the corner, forgotten as usual.
ProfDrDeath5 votesCrazy idea:
Why not have Magus (and the other jungle items) be more slot-efficient as a completed item, with a higher gold cost too boot (some 2800 to 3000 gold)? This is certainly a possibilty, especially now that Devourer, Warrior and Cinderhulk actually have a mid-tier component item which helps with the jungle clear (
/ 
/ 
, respectively). Except for their high gold-efficiency nowadays, I don't think there's a particular need to rush your jungle items anymore.
Magus could build out of a 
+ 
+ 
(plus spare change), and have the following effect:
Unique passive - Spellblade: On spell cast, makes your next two auto-attacks deal bonus damage equal to a part of your base AD + your AP. Deals increased damage to monsters and restores X mana for each of the two hits against monsters.
It would give AP junglers some deal of sustained damage and mana sustain to clear the jungle, while circumventing the issue of increasing their burst too harshly in actual champ-to-champ combat.
kile1472 votesI like it but some minor tweaks:
Don't make it a spellblade passive, name it something else so that it doesn't hurt 
instead of giving flat mana make it give mana back based on %missing so that champs who already have decent mana in the jungle don't just use it to stay topped off
IcyPepper4 votesDid someone steal your blue buff?
Is your mid an ass who thinks blue is all theirs?
Have no fear! Now you can get your mana back not by clearing, but ganking more! Everybody wins!
.
Not a terrible idea, actually.
Vistha Kai6 votesU wot m8?
"Damage done to MONSTERS".
Daedalus8714 votesI like this idea. Create a new item that gives mana back for dealing damage, and make the mage enchant build out of it.
Plus they can use this item to build into things like Essense Reaver (seriously Riot, it needs a different build path).
Visigoth3 votesThat's why we had Spirit Stone in season 4. It also provided mana for AD and tank junglers too, it really allowed for some mana hungry junglers to be played
Ancestor0073 votesM8.....
LICENSED HOOKER1 votesexactly, i was just gonna say that... Thats like giving leblanc mana back every time she kills a champion/minion __-
Xx420n0sc0p3sxX10 votes
Thought I should point this out
LICENSED HOOKER1 votesAP Jungle enchantment should have a passive that gives **Mana back equal to damage done to Monsters **
DrCyanide1 voteslike 20% of magic damage dealt to Monsters back as Mana over time or something
It's important to read more than the title.
LICENSED HOOKER1 votesHmm, mb everyone im leesin? D:
iainB853 votesFor whatever reason Riot just doesn't want us to have mana to use our abilities in S5.
This is something I really feel Dawngate (RIP) nailed. There was no mana -- each champion had it's own unique resource system that gated their abilities in a way that made sense.
It felt so much better than the endless back and forth between, "mana items are too good making mana costs irrelevant" and, "mana regen is so bad right now why wouldn't I just use one of the many energy/resourceless champions instead?!"
ImHerVoice2 votesI played that game in alpha was getting 12 ping basically as low as the devs LOL Played only freya and had over 500 games in CBT and Open beta with her with a 80% winrate when they nerfed her I unistalled the game cause she felt too clunky and weak compared to the newer champions. So I got bored and went back to league. I don't care about lore or any of that but the character line interactions mid game were really interesting to see, I like that. Despite knowing nothing about the lore because Idc and my memory sucks anyway so why bother trying to remember it.
Was fun, AOE fear sounds broken but when you're a melee against people with targeted stuns and shit it's balanced.
Svddenly3 votesSmite midlane new meta
Kappa
Aria Valkyrie3 votesI would think that rather than having it be completely equal to damage dealt, i think it could be something like 
, giving a portion of damage dealt as mana, increasing as you have less mana. Maybe like. . . 25-40% of the damage? since it's occasional burst rather than pure sustained damage. I think it would have the stipulation that it would need to be a jungler item, and that the mana effect would only proc off jungle creeps. Otherwise, it would lead into way too much smite mid/top shenanigans that would make a lot of people very sad.
That being said, though, it's a pretty wonderful idea. mana refunds would be a wonderful way to bring some more diversity into the jungle.
ArcticWolf242 votesbut then Fiddle stciks, Evelynn(not sure if they even buy magus) , Diana, and KArthus would all be broken with infinite mana.
Karthus already has no mana issues ( except first or second clear) but then if u give him compared to the damage done. that's a lot of damage.
For example, If Karthus Qd Gromp it would crit giving him even more mana and he already clears fast.
The problem with this idea is it would help some AP Junglers but then others would just completely DESTROY the jungle.
Kingsgrave6 votesbut then Fiddle stciks, Evelynn(not sure if they even buy magus) , Diana, and KArthus would all be broken with infinite mana.
Karthus already has no mana issues ( except first or second clear) but then if u give him compared to the damage done. that's a lot of damage.
For example, If Karthus Qd Gromp it would crit giving him even more mana and he already clears fast.
The problem with this idea is it would help some AP Junglers but then others would just completely DESTROY the jungle.
That didn't stop them from making Juggernaut or literally any other item change
Teridax683 votesMany tanky champions received complementary changes when the new 
enchantment was released, and those that went a bit overboard after that (hello 
) received appropriate nerfs. Considering is pretty much constrained to jungling right now, any targeted nerf would only affect his power in the jungle.
Speculation on the functionality of a mana-restoring enchantment aside, the fact that you'd only have access to it way after the first or second clears means champions with mana issues during that time would still have trouble maintaining their mana, for better or worse. Honestly, I think something's very wrong if a champion has the power to clear jungle camps, but burns so fast through their mana that they run from full to OOM before they can make a full first run (
is probably the biggest offender in this respect).
Biffolo1 votesMany tanky champions received complementary changes when the new
Speculation on the functionality of a mana-restoring enchantment aside, the fact that you'd only have access to it way after the first or second clears means champions with mana issues during that time would still have trouble maintaining their mana, for better or worse. Honestly, I think something's very wrong if a champion has the power to clear jungle camps, but burns so fast through their mana that they run from full to OOM before they can make a full first run (
Why are you playing cass jungle rofl.
Teridax681 votesWell, for one, she's got this amazing synergy with Gromp buff. If she were to be hypothetically viable, the poison buff from Gromp would allow her to E spam anyone who attacked her, which would give her an edge in ganks but also invades. In addition to that, she's also a phenomenal DPS machine, which is always a plus when clearing jungle camps, and her spells give her enough crowd control, mobility and damage to be pretty scary when ganking even early on, and especially post-6. The issue with all this is that she burns through her entire mana bar in the space of a few seconds, meaning she goes OOM against any single camp even with blue buff, and lacks sufficient follow-up damage and tankiness to survive her clear. With better mana management in the jungle, she'd have a shot at being a good jungler.
Biffolo2 votesWell, for one, she's got this amazing synergy with Gromp buff. If she were to be hypothetically viable, the poison buff from Gromp would allow her to E spam anyone who attacked her, which would give her an edge in ganks but also invades. In addition to that, she's also a phenomenal DPS machine, which is always a plus when clearing jungle camps, and her spells give her enough crowd control, mobility and damage to be pretty scary when ganking even early on, and especially post-6. The issue with all this is that she burns through her entire mana bar in the space of a few seconds, meaning she goes OOM against any single camp even with blue buff, and lacks sufficient follow-up damage and tankiness to survive her clear. With better mana management in the jungle, she'd have a shot at being a good jungler.
And she's not SUPPOSED to be a jungler, so it's good she isn't. Honestly, if keeping mana regen out of the jungle keeps stupid troll picks from becoming a thing, then I'm ok with it.
Teridax681 votesAnd she's not SUPPOSED to be a jungler, so it's good she isn't. Honestly, if keeping mana regen out of the jungle keeps stupid troll picks from becoming a thing, then I'm ok with it.
But why isn't she supposed to be a jungler? Is there anything truly wrong with jungle Cassiopeia? It is bizarre to reject a champion-role combination out of hand in a forum culture that repeatedly calls for greater role diversity, even for champions whose core fantasy limits them to a certain role (
as a dedicated support, for example). If jungle Cass were to still not function in spite of better jungle clears and mana management, then that would be that, but if she were to be a successful jungler, I think her design would allow her to do so and remain entirely healthy.
Biffolo1 votesBut why isn't she supposed to be a jungler? Is there anything truly wrong with jungle Cassiopeia? It is bizarre to reject a champion-role combination out of hand in a forum culture that repeatedly calls for greater role diversity, even for champions whose core fantasy limits them to a certain role (
First off, she'd still just get trashed in early invades. I don't mean one man invades, I mean coordinated efforts to starve her of her jungle. She was built as a solo laner, she should stay that way. Hell, cases like this are maybe even WHY they don't give mana regen to stuff, and I'm pretty ok with that.
Teridax681 votesThat still doesn't really answer the question. I don't think Cass's laning should change in favor of a potential jungle Cass build, but I do think that she would bring lots of positive gameplay if she were able to jungle. A weakness to coordinated invades isn't an unusual drawback, and is even a core weakness on many junglers, including really strong ones ( was really vulnerable to one-man invades even at the height of her post- power). The only reason a champion shouldn't extend to an alternative role is if that champion becomes unhealthy or dilutes their niche in the process, and I think neither of those would apply to the possibility of jungle Cassiopeia.
Biffolo1 votesThat still doesn't really answer the question. I don't think Cass's laning should change in favor of a potential jungle Cass build, but I do think that she would bring lots of positive gameplay if she were able to jungle. A weakness to coordinated invades isn't an unusual drawback, and is even a core weakness on many junglers, including really strong ones (
But it can bring in unforseen issues which can harm the competitive integrity of the game. Why risk it? There is no real benefit to doing it.
Teridax681 votesBut it can bring in unforseen issues which can harm the competitive integrity of the game. Why risk it? There is no real benefit to doing it.
Such as? Like I said, Cass is a healthy champion, so having her in the jungle would most likely not have a negative effect, and bringing her there would add more diversity and fun alternatives, so I think it would be worth giving it a shot. I don't think any kind of over-cautious mentality is helpful to game health overall, and at worst it just chokes out novel ideas that could bring unexpected yet hugely positive contributions.
Biffolo1 votesSuch as? Like I said, Cass is a healthy champion, so having her in the jungle would most likely not have a negative effect, and bringing her there would add more diversity and fun alternatives, so I think it would be worth giving it a shot. I don't think any kind of over-cautious mentality is helpful to game health overall, and at worst it just chokes out novel ideas that could bring unexpected yet hugely positive contributions.
If your reasoning for risking competitive integrity is for the sake of happy fun troll times, then I'm sorry but no. Competitive balance comes first and foremost.
Teridax681 votesYou are automatically assuming that making one single champion potentially viable in another role would suddenly break the competitive scene, which is a tad excessive. League routinely receives much bigger changes, like the tank jungler update, all of which shake up the competitive scene and usually make it better. Besides the obvious problem in assuming any form change is negative, you're also making it seem like the game would suddenly break completely at the slightest balance flop, which would clearly not be the case. I'm not just advocating "happy fun troll times", I'm suggesting that making mages more popular in the jungle, Cassiopeia included, would not only make the game more fun and diverse overall, but would also add more diversity to the competitive scene, which even now has an issue with stagnant champion picks.
Silents4294 votesChanging the magus to give a bit of mana regen isn't going to break the jungle.
Firestartertot2 votesor just ap jgers with mana issues xD
TotalJerk2 votesThis offers no benefit to resourceless/energy champions, and offers little to those that don't have major mana problems.
Jungle Lux God1 votesMagus definitely needs some sort of mana regeneration in the item in order for a lot of AP junglers to be even viable.
Right now, there are so few AP champions that can actually jungle right now compared to the junglers that use the other enchants, moreso Cinderhulk and Warrior, and a big reason for that is that a large majority of AP champions need to burn a lot of mana to baseline clear the jungle. An even bigger problem is that Magus doesn't help with these problems because of its lack of mana regeneration.
Magus can't really keep its current stats while also gaining a mana regeneration passive, so something needs to go to make room. I would tentatively consider completely removing the CDR for a strong mana regen passive. Maybe something like:
-80 AP -Passive: restores mana equal to 50% of the magic damage done to monsters
Might be grossly undertuned, overtuned, or wrongly tuned (ie. too much AFK farm jungle and not enough help team), but I do like the idea of the item having just AP and the mana regen passive, as any CDR might restrict it from champions that get a lot of innate CDR (ie. Ryze, Cassiopeia, any other AP champion that gets released/reworked with innate CDR).
Slamurai Jack1 votes50% of magic damage dealt to monsters given back as Mana? That could easily give you several hundred mana per camp on some junglers.
Jungle Lux God1 votesLike I said, it's likely grossly overtuned.
I at least wanted to get the idea across. The numbers are less important than the whole concept of the item.
50% would definitely be way too much. Something closer to 20-30% would probably be a lot healthier for the item.
Slamurai Jack1 votesI'd be willing to give up 10% CDR for a mana restoration effect, but not the full 20%. What's the point of having all that mana if all your shit in on CD all the time.
Jungle Lux God1 votesWith any AP champion, the only time when you will actually start a camp without all of your CD's up is if you finish a camp using one of your abilities and it has a really long cooldown (ie. maybe you are jungling Lux, and you finish the camp with a Light Binding).
Otherwise, you are going to have your CD's up for the next camp you clear, whether they are already off cooldown or coming off cooldown in 2-3 seconds, and on a lot of champions you aren't going to clear that much faster with extra cooldown reduction than without due to any of the following reasons:
-the champion has low enough cooldowns that CDR doesn't make a difference -the champion wants to stagger spellcasts to the point where CDR doesn't improve clear speeds because the spells are off cooldown when needed -the champion clears the camp in such few spell rotations that an extra rotation is either not possible or not needed -the champion has a persistent effect that doesn't change with CDR -the champion gets enough CDR from other sources (ie. innate CDR) that it gives too much
There are some exceptions, but overall CDR isn't needed that much on the item, while mana regeneration definitely is needed, even without the CDR available.