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As much as I fucking despise Zhonya's Active

Visigoth··67 votes·3,830 views

I honestly think the nerfs are a bit much. It's like 3 seconds, and that's also giving the enemy team time to gather around and kill you. And it's a two minute cooldown, more than most ultimates late game, and there're some ultimates like Liss for example (not calling out Liss ult, just an example) that has an effect similar to Zhonya's or better. And the nerfs really screws over certain champions who need Zhonya's. Especially ones like Swain who also rely on the healing, which is negated by the new Grievous Wounds every auto. So yeah, RIP Swain. And then others like Morgana who need it because her ult requires you to pretty much flash into the enemy team, R, and then Zhonya's and pray. Considering she's working on a support budget, that's pretty harsh.

And this is coming from someone who not only hates Zhonya's but also hates Morgana and has no bias towards Swain or any other AP.

41 Comments

AquariusGine14 votes

and why is Zhonyas at 80AP when its components have 95 AP??

idoki2 votes

{quoted}

and why is Zhonyas at 80AP when its components have 95 AP??

I will giveaway my Thresh figurine if they don't change that.

Fashion Mage1 votes

Probably because they were nerfing AP items so blindly and randomly that they never noticed that.

Kat Head8 votes

Coming from someone who must build and many times use Zhonyas offensively I can safely say that no amount of nerfs will stop many champions from building it. It is simply the best active ability in the game.

I do not understand why adcs are being giving so many defensive tools in offensive itemization. If adcs were dieing to quickly there supports needed buffed or support items, not the adc.

xFrostKnightx6 votes

Soraka I got buf- WAIT! ...No....No...Not Grievous wounds. NOOOOO!!!!!!!
"You also still pay 10% hp :D" - RiotBalance

63536895_DEL4 votes

Lets be honest, they're doing this to nerf Heimerdinger without actually nerfing him.

Malix Farwin2 votes

not really about stopping champions from building it but further hindering and putting them behind for building it.

Lost In Time2 votes

Better start embracing the new mage build that consists of RoA, Seraph and Athene's.

Have fun killing that tanky abomination.

IgsabBTGk027 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost In Time,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AUNaUIn3,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-31T16:40:37.179+0000)

Better start embracing the new mage build that consists of RoA, Seraph and Athene's.

Have fun killing that tanky abomination.

Or, More likely, people just won't play mages anymore.

pWasHere7 votes

I will always play mages, and I'm not the only one.

xFrostKnightx3 votes

You are a brave, brave man. "sniffles" We will remember you when the buffed MR items hit Live, "salutes" item 3070item 2044

pWasHere1 votes

I will be fine.

fééd l0rd2 votes

people acting like mages are dead.. its the first patch of the preseason and they cant stop crying holy.

Quort1 votes

Same here. I don't play Anivia for the big damage (though it's nice when it happens), I play for the utility! :D

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I will ALWAYS play mages as well. Anivia Velkoz Karma Brand Vladimir

The Great Jaggi11 votes

Can't wait to see Talon, Zed, and Yasuo every game. Because they are so fair and fun to play against.

Melledoneus1 votes

I don't think Talon will have enough mana to reach his late game anymore.

Malix Farwin12 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost In Time,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AUNaUIn3,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-31T16:40:37.179+0000)

Better start embracing the new mage build that consists of RoA, Seraph and Athene's.

Have fun killing that tanky abomination.

still get 100-0 in 1-2s by new adcs

BiBoX21 votes

You'll stack Tears for the early and mid game, for sure ;-) ...

And late game? just type /ff or /sur

Doc1872 votes

As a swain player the nerf on hourglass is a bit much in my opinion. I wouldn't have a issue if there was another Ap/armor item that Ap Champs could build. Some people will say there are two other options but for straight up AP Mages there is no other option besides Hourglass that doesn't cause a serious loss of damage. So I'd be happy to see more ap/armor, ap/mana items. Riot disappointed me in the AP item rework. Swain for example is forced to build roa which is a scaling late game item but doesn't help him add damage and get rolling early game when he has no wave clear. Or for anivia which needs both roa and seraphs both stacking it'd be nice to be caught up to other champs in the game.

fééd l0rd1 votes

Dont get me wrong but this isnt the fault of the items. swain is garbage and riot knows that. they just refusing to fix him. they ap itemchange was great for literally all ap champions (especially the meta picks benefited from these changes). The one thing is that zhonias is too safe at all. It gives you literally the same amount of damage as a lich bane or ludens but is a lot safer.

JacctheInsomniac2 votes

[deleted]

Voluug136 votes

Then its those champioons the problematic ones. In that case THOSE champions need an appointment with the Dr Ner F. Hammer or Dr R. Ework.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Right? Maybe Zhonya's isn't what's wrong with those champions.

maikokk1 votes

considering kat and ekko are pretty weak and NEED to outplay to get fed... meh.

nid is pretty balanced

fizz is fizz, he could have zero base damage in his kit and still be strong.

LB is... well. ... we can nerf LB's early game pretty safely but they would want to give her more punch late game for it.

IcyPepper1 votes

I wouldn't say Ekko is weak, no word on Kat though.

maikokk2 votes

well, hes really weak in his intended role, which is a squishy AP mid assassin.

he is however, pretty powerful as a bruiser jungle

IcyPepper2 votes

A quick look at the stats show he's being played as a full AP jungle assassin. The only defensive item he gets is zhonyas, and maybe guardian angel.

If we're going by winrates and play rates, he's played mostly and has most success (in the jungle, disregarding mid and top lane for now) as a full AP assassin.

maikokk1 votes

i cant deny that hes a strong AP assasin jungle as well... ive just found that he is more reliably strong as a bruiser... and plays like an assasin despite being tanky in the late game.... then again. im the type that likes to initiate with ekko so it could just be a playstyle preference.

in lane hes utter shit with any build IMO. his only advantage is base regen... and it doesnt serve him well in a laning experience. you CAN outplay and win lane hard if you constantly change your patterns of play until you flat out overpower them.... but honestly its way too much outplay to consider him "strong"

IcyPepper3 votes

On release, he was a bit overbearing according to the public in laning.

However, balancing him as a jungler makes him a lot more fair to play against, at least from what I've seen, and is more fun for both sides.

Because he's an utility assassin, which is a pain to balance in the first place, the jungle is better since he's not constantly putting cc and pressure on lane opponents. Like, skirmishes as opposed to constant laning is more healthy for him. Kind of like Yasuo I'd say, but Yasuo isn't considered a jungler.

It also benefits him, since constant access to blue buff and the W stun is useful for early clearing. Plus his ult has a lot more playmaking and outplay potential when jungling and skirmish, as opposed to being more easily predictable in the laning phase. Not to mention he's likely to take a lot of minion aggro and poke, since his E is going to take him into melee range and his W has an actual cooldown.

Anyway, my point is I think it's healthier for both teams if Ekko is balanced for jungling over laning, even if he wasn't released that way.

maikokk1 votes

even without the tweaks his laning would have become weaker over time. hes one of those champs that just isnt good in lane once people learn his play patterns.

good points all around though.

and... if rageblade stays the way it is on pbe... watch out for the devourer/rageblade ekko jungle that wont have to land a damn thing to delete you lol

IcyPepper1 votes

Hm, I'll have to test that on PBE then.

Kog'Maw is insane right now. Just ran a juggermaw comp and daaaaaaaaaamn. We even steamrolled a fed Jinx during teamfights (not so much 1v1 or 2v2).

maikokk1 votes

if you pref the mid game damage hound over the tanky bruiser then follow it up with gunblade or ludens situationally... (yes, the aoe rageblade damage spellvamps, on normal hit and phantom hit. i straight up tanked a wave of super minions just AAing) if you are in any way a fan of having a tanky ekko, those sated titanic procs+the AA reset it gives are pretty killer, then after visage you are nearly unkillable (not that games on this patch last long enough to build visage :P)

darkmatchwaldo2 votes

I've had more success building him as a Top lane AP bruiser rather than Mid lane assassin. He works pretty well against standard top laners like Garen Darius Tryndamere and is super hard to gank post-6. He is great at setting up ganks for your jungler if they don't have much CC, but if they do have CC...that's a free kill everytime. He's great at sticking to people and that lane is long as hell, your jungler can do almost nothing and it will result in a kill.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

With Zhonya's being nerfed it will stop being such an effective crutch for champions whose kits are simply bad (Kennen, Swain, Morgana). Champions who need to stay alive inside a team fight with no defensive tools will be completely useless, so Riot can offer base stat buffs and defensive passives to abilities to help them play the game without needing to rush an item.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

They really ought to bring back grievous wounds as an active on an item instead of an always available passive.

Only Play Darius1 votes

I despise Zhonya's and I would prefer they remove it from the game and just rebalance the champions that will be affected like Zed Kennen Fiddle etc.

That being said, if you're going to nerf Zhonya's nerf the active, not the stats.

Tengrichan1 votes

Fuck Zhonya's active.It shouldn't be in the game at all.This active can alone decide teamfights which should be not the case. Though i don't understand the heavy nerf either as the item needs a new active that does not give invulnerability and untargetability because that's bullshit. It's new active should reduce the basic abilities current cooldowns by x%. Maybe less % for ultimate.But you get the idea.Also it would still fit thematically to the item as it is time related.

P.S: Not a zed player.

Davy Crockett1 votes

ENTER: BARD Bard

iMaB3AST1 votes

Plus half of us forgets to use the active anyways. item 3157

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