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Unpopular Opinion time: I think Zed is relatively balanced

Visigoth··6 votes·1,242 views

I personally think his ultimate has plenty of counter play. People whine about being "Forced into getting item 3157 or item 3140." Both have plenty of use outside of Zed ultimate. Zhonya's can be life saving in plenty of situations, and gives great stats. And QSS can remove ANY cc or DoT or other effects. Meaning if the enemy also happens to have WW jungle you're hard counter two ultimates with one item.

The only problem I have with Zed is his safety from W. That and the amount of poke and mobility it gives. Honestly though his damage is fine. It's like people complaining about Khazix for assassinating someone and getting out with his reset. As an assassin that is Zed's job to kill your carry. And let's be honest, after that he can't do much else in a fight. And if he is split pushing you can just fight his team 4v5 and then push as team after winning that fight.

And that concludes my unpopular opinion about Zed. Don't worry I'm already prepared for the down votes for my opinion.

24 Comments

TheRakkun6 votes

QSS and Zhonyas is counterbuilding, his ult doesn't have counterPLAY, you can't dodge his ult, you can't CC him out of it due to invulnerability, you can't position yourself near allies or a tower since he can just flash out, champs that force you to build an item to counter them are bad, item building is for team comps not single champs

Dies to Wolves1 votes

{quoted}

QSS and Zhonyas is counterbuilding, his ult doesn't have counterPLAY, you can't dodge his ult, you can't CC him out of it due to invulnerability, you can't position yourself near allies or a tower since he can just flash out, champs that force you to build an item to counter them are bad, item building is for team comps not single champs

except it does have counterplay: you know exactly where he'll land when he ults and it gives you some time to prepare. As an example, if you're Orianna you can time your ult to pull and damage him as soon as he lands from his ult, which can be fatal to him (especially in team-fights, just like what happened in last year's Worlds). If you dodge shurikens, a big portion of his ult's damage is gone. If you CC him after he lands, he'll deal a lot less damage with his ult. Not to mention that, since the explosion is timed, you can time shields / heals / invulnerabilities / etc to block it (or part of the damage).

I'm not saying zed is weak, but he's really not as overbearing as some people want to make him seem like, not to mention exagerate a lot of stuff - like you saying you can't CC him because of the invulnerability in his ult. Yes, if you use your CC prematurely, if he's any good he can probably dodge it, but that's him playing better than you. A good Ahri for example will always charm Zed as soon as he lands from his ult, rather than wasting it randomly in lane while in range of his ultimate

TheRakkun3 votes

Thing is most CC is delayed or skillshots, by the time you're able to land it he can unleash his combo to make the mark fatal, and if not, more than likely he'll be able to recast his ult to return to safety.

Dies to Wolves1 votes

{quoted}

Thing is most CC is delayed or skillshots, by the time you're able to land it he can unleash his combo to make the mark fatal, and if not, more than likely he'll be able to recast his ult to return to safety.

But here's the thing, his ult lets you know exactly where he'll be right behind you) and WHEN he'll be (after the ult cast-delay-travel-time-invulnerability thingy), so you can time AND aim your delayed skillshot CC to hit him exactly as he shows up (and if you time it right it's IMPOSSIBLE for him to dodge it, because he can only swap back to his ult's shadow after he lands, so your CC can hit him before he's able to swap with a shadow)

Here's an example, say it's Zed vs Syndra, both just hit level 6 in lane. If Zed casts his ult on her, she can preemptively cast a Q behind her and just time his arrivel with her casting E; as soon as Zed lands, he'll get stunned by her E. She than proceeds to W her ball into him and ult + ignite + auto-attack him. He'll die before he can deal close to enough damage to kill her. On the other hand, if Syndra is the one to suddenly try and ult or stun him, he has the tools to try and dodge it - now he has an advantage in the fight and can quite probably kill her.

And that's counterplay - either party has the opportunity to play around what his opponent does, and depending on how each one of them plays the engagement, either one can win the fight. (though IMHO syndra is a bit lacking in the whole counterplay business, but that's another story)

If you take a champion like Master Yi for example, he has the tools to counter a lot of stuff; he can dodge Zed's ultimate completely if he times his alpha strike correctly, but fighthing master Yi has much less counterplay involved; it tends to be either you're strong enough to kill him one on one - in which case he'll more often than not just try and run away, or he's strong enough to kill you (unless HE messes up on dodging stuff with Q and blocking damage with W, in which case it's mainly his fault rather than your credit) and you're just screwed. Zed offers a lot more variables than that; of course, if he gets REALLY fed he'll just murder you regardless, but that happens with pretty much every champion in the game

TheRakkun1 votes

The thing is that's not strategic counterplay that's reactionary, also keep in mind most spells have a cast time, and Zed's ult's recall is ridiculously small if not instant, so he can decide to hop back before anyone can get a spell of, also take someone like Viktor for example, his delayed CC requires zed to be in the zone for it to work, giving him ample time to back.

Zed's problem is he's too safe.

Dies to Wolves1 votes

{quoted}

The thing is that's not strategic counterplay that's reactionary, also keep in mind most spells have a cast time, and Zed's ult's recall is ridiculously small if not instant, so he can decide to hop back before anyone can get a spell of, also take someone like Viktor for example, his delayed CC requires zed to be in the zone for it to work, giving him ample time to back.

Zed's problem is he's too safe.

first of all, your comment that I originally quoted and replied too was saying that his ult has no counterplay because you can't "dodge it". Dodging it is reactionary counterplay too, not strategic, so there's no point in bringing that out. There's no "strategic counterplay" to syndra's ult either, or to soraka's ult, or to irelia's ult or to really almost any specific stuff like that in the game. If your argument was that there's no strategic counterplay to ZED, you'd still be wrong because there certainly is, but regardless that wasn't your original point that I was replying too

Zed's ult recall is only available after he lands, so you can time correctly CC like ahri's charm, syndra's stun, orianna's ult, swain's W, diana's pull, etc. to hit him every time before he can do anything about it. Of course, this won't work with EVERY champion (like viktor for example, since his stun has a ramp-up time), but you can't realistically expect every champion in the game to easily beat him, else there would be no point in picking him. And I'm not even saying that zed beats viktor necessarily btw.

Yeah, zed's problem is that he's too safe. I'm not disagreeing there, but here I'll quote you again so you see what I'm saying:

{quoted}

QSS and Zhonyas is counterbuilding, his ult doesn't have counterPLAY, you can't dodge his ult, you can't CC him out of it due to invulnerability, you can't position yourself near allies or a tower since he can just flash out, champs that force you to build an item to counter them are bad, item building is for team comps not single champs

^ as I said previously, his ult does have counterplay (even outside of counterbuilding), regardless if zed is currently balanced or not.

TheRakkun1 votes

Point conceded, but we still agree that he is too safe a laner.

Yutaji1 votes

{quoted}

QSS and Zhonyas is counterbuilding, his ult doesn't have counterPLAY, you can't dodge his ult, you can't CC him out of it due to invulnerability, you can't position yourself near allies or a tower since he can just flash out, champs that force you to build an item to counter them are bad, item building is for team comps not single champs

Agree with everything but that last statement. This is completely false because no matter what you do to the games balance there will always be champions which you need to itemize against and THAT IS a good thing. It adds variety along with more team play to help out. Also that statement kind makes very little sense.

TheRakkun1 votes

But having a champ that you need a specific item to counter makes laning phase extremely toxic as you have to save up for that item while he can continue building his build, putting you behind making you practically useless merely due to their existence, which isn't fun.

Yutaji1 votes

{quoted}

But** having a champ that you need a specific item to counter makes laning phase extremely toxic** as you have to save up for that item while he can continue building his build, putting you behind making you practically useless merely due to their existence, which isn't fun.

This is once again false. This is the sole purpose why those items exist, it is for counterplay against your lane and then later on goes into the late game. This is why certain champions have certain abilities.

If it weren't for those items that we need to counter champions then every game would be the same in terms of build paths which would make the game boring and stale VERY fast. This is why counter picks exist as well.

Yes, there will always be champions who need buffs and nerfs, however, it's about how you play the laning phase and how you perform as a whole. Learning how to play against a champion is the true key to beating them along with the help of items. The lane being fun is completely random because not all players think alike.

Sirsir1 votes

Incorrect thinking. Counterbuilding is only a bad strategy if there are no GOOD counterbuilding options. With Zed you have QSS>Scimitar for AD and Zhonyas for AP. Most APs build Zhonyas at some point anyway, and Scimitar builds from BF sword, so your not sacrificing appreciable power for it to heavily nullify one enemy champ.

Zeds issue is his safety, pure and simple. Too safe in lane, too safe in late game, no real counter to it if the Zed player has 2 brain cells to rub together and realize 'I'm fed but I still can't dive 1v5 into a Leona'

DrNova3 votes

The free escape on his R is his only problem. It shouldnt Exist. He should either have to all in you for sure, or use his normal shadow as a possible escape.

S E X Y B O I2 votes

You forgot to mention that he has manaless ranged waveclear and 2 gapclosers (who are also escapes in the same time).

SwiftKitten882 votes

lets compare 2 champs people call op... zed and nidalee

zed has free waveclear at range in complete safety nidalee has free waveclear in melee from and needs to use her escape ability to clear

zed has a free long range poke that goes through minions nidalee has a long range poke that stops at the first target hit and costs mana

zed can engage with his utli and get out safely nidalee has to land a skillshot to engage, and an sometimes get out safely

zed forces you to builditem 3191 nidalee lets you build your normal build

nidalee is highly suceptable to CC and zed is pretty much untargetable and his escape gets him out if he has half a second to press 1 button

nidalee has no teamfight zed can teamfight really well.

nid has an insane amount of counterplay becuase all her damage is reliant on landing a skillshot zed has almost zero counterplay

now tell me?

which of these champ is OP?

thinking man1 votes

his late game sucks because of QSS/zhonya's

he's just really good at accumulating advantages

Lord Dusteon1 votes

In general, being forced into building a specific item vs a champion as a rush everygame is annoying. When you have to rush that item and your laner can build literally anything they want it's even worse, as your build is "Rush X item" and their build is "Build whatever I damn please". Is Zed's ultimate destroyed by Zhonya's/QSS? Yes. Is it interesting or fun as a mana using mage or be forced into building Zhonya's first while your mana and thus damage is ignored? No.

mkman20081 votes

"People call op" I cant remember the last time nidalee was called op outside of urf, sot his comparison is unfair

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

all of what you said about him being ballanced is in theory, but once it hits the game its a diferent story

he is just abussive

Terchio1 votes

Assassins should not be allowed to be AD-based, in my opinion, because then they clearly will have a high DPS as well. He is no ordinary caster, and yet his kit gives him the damage of any caster, granted slightly melee. However, even with the melee kit, he has extreme mobility to go with his 100-0 caster damage, plus decent DPS. That's what makes him OP.

Zhonya and QSS are hardly "counters" anyways. You won't have either of those until the teamfights start, at which point Zed's probably not blasting the enemy mid, he's focusing the carry. No champion should be allowed to kite, sustain (with easy Lifesteal buildpaths), and then delete someone else with such ease.

Yutaji1 votes

{quoted}

Assassins should not be allowed to be AD-based, in my opinion, because then they clearly will have a high DPS as well. He is no ordinary caster, and yet his kit gives him the damage of any caster, granted slightly melee. However, even with the melee kit, he has extreme mobility to go with his 100-0 caster damage, plus decent DPS. That's what makes him OP.

Zhonya and QSS are hardly "counters" anyways. You won't have either of those until the teamfights start, at which point Zed's probably not blasting the enemy mid, he's focusing the carry. No champion should be allowed to kite, sustain (with easy Lifesteal buildpaths), and then delete someone else with such ease.

This would be completely gutting creativity and game balance. Jesus Christ can you imagine League of Burst Mages? The thought of assassins not being able to be AD makes zero sense.

Zyra Viktor Swain Singed Heimerdinger Cassiopeia Anivia etc. Are mages with big burst and lots of DPS. Except no burst for Singed, I mean the DPS department.

Terchio1 votes

They all have limits on their kits, otherwise the non-DPS mages would never be picked. However, Zed doesn't really have such limitations, such as mobility, lack of sustain (YES HE LIFESTEALS), or most of the time a skillshot form of burst (Q range is friggin' huge). Right now, Zed is just a better Diana, in basically every way.

Yutaji1 votes

Also as to the argument of his ult being undodgeable

Caitlyn Chogath Fiora Garen Darius and a few more. His ult is a point and click just like plenty of other abilities that aren't dodge-able without certain items.

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