Where is this Akali rage comming from?

D357R0Y3R·May 23, 2019·67 votes·17,316 views

"oh no!! they're nerfing my champion because of pro play!!" "nerfing a X% win rate champion"

Akali is incredibly overpowered when played by a skilled player. Don't try to get statistic, don't try to search further than what it is. Akali mains that played the champion hundreds of times above master have like 60%-70% win rate on her.

It's like over and over again, where people refuse to get good on the champion and blame high elo/pro play for nerfing their broken champion. This is not going to change, was always like that and will remain like that. Akali is an other example of a champion balanced around skilled players just like how are balanced around low elo and got nerfed despite never being OP in pro play.

People need after so many years to understand that in every moba, you have characters balanced around different tiers of MMR. 6.86 Arc Warden in dota2 had 30% win rate and got nerfed because of fucking Alexthefool who had 94% WIN RATE ON HIM in high MMR.

If you want to play Akali, don't complain about her nerf and try to become better at her.

107 Comments

Yordle XayahMay 23, 201938 votes

To be fair to Akali fans, it's not their fault CertainlyT came and literally murdered the character's future. I have no idea what they thought was gonna happen with her new kit. They've removed half the passives she had at launch and she's still too hard to keep in check for high elo.

It's like they haven't learned anything from the many Ryze fiascos or what happened with Mordekaiser, also courtesy of CertainlyT.

KazekibaMay 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

To be fair to Akali fans, it's not their fault CertainlyT came and literally murdered the character's future. I have no idea what they thought was gonna happen with her new kit. They've removed half the passives she had at launch and she's still too hard to keep in check for high elo.

It's like they haven't learned anything from the many Ryze fiascos or what happened with Mordekaiser, also courtesy of CertainlyT.

The reason she was ever so strong in high elo, and by "strong" I mean "45% win rate and only picked 20-30% of the time when she's not banned in pro play" is because she has 3 dashes to escape with and a fourth, targeted dash Old Akali was an all-in faceroller, who had 3 dashes but all targeted. Albeit theoretically infinite number of them because she regained one whenever she got a kill/takedown.

Her E dash backwards should legit be removed, and her second R cast be targeted (but keep the microstun on R1) then put a heal back on her passive. Why do they seem completely incapable of doing this

Yordle XayahMay 23, 20198 votes

{quoted}

The reason she was ever so strong in high elo, and by "strong" I mean "45% win rate and only picked 20-30% of the time when she's not banned in pro play" is because she has 3 dashes to escape with and a fourth, targeted dash Old Akali was an all-in faceroller, who had 3 dashes but all targeted. Albeit theoretically infinite number of them because she regained one whenever she got a kill/takedown.

Her E dash backwards should legit be removed, and her second R cast be targeted (but keep the microstun on R1) then put a heal back on her passive. Why do they seem completely incapable of doing this

We're at a point where win ratio has become irrelevant. This isn't even Yasuo/Zoe stuff. This is starting to look like Kalista/Morde/Ryze territory, and you never wanna go there. I have no idea what they're gonna end up doing with her.

WeaselRuneMay 26, 20191 votes

I think part of the problem... if not ALL of the problem is the champ design pissing contest.

Almost every champ that comes out, or gets reworked has some new "break the rules" nonsense in their kit. Akali of course had perfect stealth.... even under turret... Cause reasons!

There is a reason that the pro scene is filled with mostly reworks and newer champs, theyre just plain better than the rest, like an arms race... If an older champ is played, they already had a highly mobile, high impact kit to begin with. LeBlanc and Lee Sin for example. Any other champ has flash forcing CC or some other such utility.

Yordle XayahMay 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I think part of the problem... if not ALL of the problem is the champ design pissing contest.

Almost every champ that comes out, or gets reworked has some new "break the rules" nonsense in their kit. Akali of course had perfect stealth.... even under turret... Cause reasons!

There is a reason that the pro scene is filled with mostly reworks and newer champs, theyre just plain better than the rest, like an arms race... If an older champ is played, they already had a highly mobile, high impact kit to begin with. LeBlanc and Lee Sin for example. Any other champ has flash forcing CC or some other such utility.

I think this happened with Zoe (to think of a recent example) as well to an extent. It's like they conceive the kit of a character in a vacuum. "Oh this ability would be fun..." But they don't really consider how it interacts with the rest of the game. Release Akali had built in sustain, the true stealth, lower cool downs, higher damage, massive mobility, etc. you name it.

Zoe's W for instance I'm not sure how it's still in the game. Many trades Zoe wins come from the free use of Summoner Spells that a minion drops or that the enemy uses. Imagine a minion drops Ignite, then Zoe uses ignite, then uses the enemy's ignite. No cooldown, no mana cost, spamability. Zoe is bad, but it's not Akali bad. Zoe at least if you lock her down she's mega dead, and she at least has to land skill shots and keep her distance or whatever. Akali is Kalista levels of overload. I don't remember if it was DL or QT or someone who at one point said "There's no point in playing any other ADC cause Kalista does everything everyone else does and better" and I think that's Akali as an assassin to an extent. I don't know how they make her work without reworking her or keeping her over nerfed and only viable for high elo one-tricks and pro play.

WeaselRuneMay 27, 20191 votes

they conceive the kit of a character in a vacuum.

The they is Certainly T...

The well known cancer champ designer...

Kalista is a problem... why certinly t she is... Zoe busted af.... why certinly t she is... Akali rework released a monster nonsense champ... why certainly t it did....

As well as some of the most BS champs people dont want to play against: Zed Yasuo Darius

and a handful of other somewhat less toxic champs...

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Bradford_%27CertainlyT%27_Wenban

I think Certainly T makes good champ designs, but he needs someone to reign him in. Every one of them is overloaded with bonus hidden power, and weaknesses that are covered by other parts of the kit making them just plain better than the champs around them.

NevrankroatonMay 24, 20194 votes

Old akali was as bad and more cancerous than old akali.

New akali problem is just her number, notably on her ultimate and the way she can make strong trade. She is far less problematic than old akali, don't sell dumb narratives because CertainlyT added a new mechanic that made people rage and then pretend the whole kit is the anti-christ...

Done25May 23, 201918 votes

Akali is super strong, but she's way too complex for the average player to reliably pull off. Kind of like Yuumi.

NaonoMay 23, 201918 votes

It says something about the champions overall design.

It could be fixed but might require another rework, resources they rather spend somewhere else.

This is purely riot's fault as they don't ask their self, how will this champion fair in pro vs regular. I already saw turret stealth would be a problem from the start. It's a cool idea but one that will be problematic. They were divided on removing it. Like seriously. It shows some rioters are more concern about how cool this mechanic will be rather than thinking of the problems it will cause. Now, akali going end up gutted in regular because their flaw way of thinking.

They also didn't have any plans or idea to deal with such problems. No, well if this is too strong we can do this, if too weak we can do this.

D357R0Y3RMay 23, 20192 votes

I already saw turret stealth would be a problem from the start. It's a cool idea but one that will be problematic. Now, akali going end up gutted in regular because their flaw way of thinking.

This makes no sense at all yet gets upvoted

Akali got her true stealth removed, she's still strong because she brings just too much damage in the game WHEN PLAYED CORRECTLY, she can duel bruisers and you're trying to tell that she's going to end up in the gutter because they didn't remove true stealth?

{quoted}

It says something about the champions overall design.

What does it say? that Riot created a champion whose skill, combination of spells, and effect's comprehension were high?

sure thing

It could be fixed but might require another rework

no rework needed high skillcap champ -->learn the champ if you want to play said champ just like azir or aurelion sol or leblanc

3TWarriorMay 23, 20191 votes

the person did not say that they did not remove it but instead explained that Riot was not being cautious with the design. Multiple aspects of her new kit made her more frustrating to play as and against and she got consistently nerfed from the start for a mechanic that no one wanted and Riot refused to remove at that time

When you make something only appealing in one direction, it just ends up wrong, like a kid kicking the back of someone's seat...

D357R0Y3RMay 23, 20191 votes

Multiple aspects of her new kit made her more frustrating to play as and against

Akali frustrating to play as? Never heard of that one and anyway it's irrelevant to this balance discussion

and she got consistently nerfed from the start for a mechanic that no one wanted and Riot refused to remove at that time

She got one single nerf that was irrelevant before they start looking on her W (was ult damage)

Now, her true stealth is irrelevant to the discussion the reason she's broken is her DPS that makes her able to 1v1 bruisers

just like Zed around season 3-4-5 where he could buy BORK and with his high attack speed, kill renekton in 1v1.

3TWarriorMay 23, 20191 votes

I hope you mean that zed landed every ability and ignite while getting auto attacks off and burning bork's active...

renekton would piledrive zed into the ground if he didn't...

D357R0Y3RMay 23, 20191 votes

https://youtu.be/4lRGrEG7c5s?t=146 https://youtu.be/4lRGrEG7c5s?t=176

Voluug13May 23, 20193 votes

People forget Zed is and remains one of the strongest midlaners ever released relative to his safety and strong itemization.

VerxintMay 23, 20193 votes

There actually was a period of time where Zed could ult, drop Bork active, and right click people while spamming E and kill bruisers. It was dumb

ThefrostyvikingMay 23, 20198 votes

.....They removed turret stealth a while ago though? And the healing.

Problem is her very design being an assassin that actually works in teamfights, she has all the "outplays&skill reward" while still having the capacity to be really good in the standard 5v5 situation.

She is similar to Azir in a sense, really damn good in the hands of experts due to having good kits, able to handle multiple different situations and rarely be useless......but this means the champ get nerfed to be extremely demanding to work and punishing to fail on, thus needing great skill to operate.

Far more than you´ll see away from pro´s and hardcore mains.

NaonoMay 23, 20194 votes

{quoted}

.....They removed turret stealth a while ago though? And the healing.

Problem is her very design being an assassin that actually works in teamfights, she has all the "outplays&skill reward" while still having the capacity to be really good in the standard 5v5 situation.

She is similar to Azir in a sense, really damn good in the hands of experts due to having good kits, able to handle multiple different situations and rarely be useless......but this means the champ get nerfed to be extremely demanding to work and punishing to fail on, thus needing great skill to operate.

Far more than you´ll see away from pro´s and hardcore mains.

Yeah, turret stealth got removed not too long ago but honestly, it took too long and should not have been there to begin with. People had asked the healing to be tied to aa after q.

My talk with a friend we end up agreeing on this.

She like a bruiser and assassin.

Really, she should be just one. Or either according to her build but she gets to be both.

FireDrizzleMay 23, 201913 votes

Nerfing a champ because they are powerful if mastered is ok but they shouldnt nerf because they are only strong with coordination from teammates.

D357R0Y3RMay 23, 201915 votes

Azir and Akali are not stronger because of teammates, their kit are just :

-harder to understand both the effects of their spells AND all the combinations you can do with their spells -harder to play because of their intense gameplay

If you want examples of champions nerfed because of coordinataion with teammates Ornn Ryze Galio

those are good examples

Meteora707May 23, 20198 votes

ryze is just broken as shit because of how safe he is into every matchup and how easy it is to gank for / with him, not much to do with coordination really.

D357R0Y3RMay 23, 20192 votes

"easy to gank for him"

--> coordination

DivewingMay 23, 20195 votes

There's not much to coordinate when the fucker has a point and click root.

If you screw that up as a jungler it has nothing to do with coordination.

The thigh guyMay 23, 201910 votes

Akali was as big a mistake as Ekko. She is unpunishable anti fun garbage and is one of the reasons ct needs to never be allowed to touch a champion again.

TioymMay 23, 20197 votes

{quoted}

"oh no!! they're nerfing my champion because of pro play!!" "nerfing a X% win rate champion"

Akali is incredibly overpowered when played by a skilled player. Don't try to get statistic, don't try to search further than what it is. Akali mains that played the champion hundreds of times above master have like 60%-70% win rate on her.

It's like over and over again, where people refuse to get good on the champion and blame high elo/pro play for nerfing their broken champion. This is not going to change, was always like that and will remain like that. Akali is an other example of a champion balanced around skilled players just like how are balanced around low elo and got nerfed despite never being OP in pro play.

People need after so many years to understand that in every moba, you have characters balanced around different tiers of MMR. 6.86 Arc Warden in dota2 had 30% win rate and got nerfed because of fucking Alexthefool who had 94% WIN RATE ON HIM in high MMR.

If you want to play Akali, don't complain about her nerf and try to become better at her.

Who are these Skilled Players you speak of? Winrates do not mean EVERYTHING but Let's still have a look because they are more reliable than someone's Opinion. If Skilled Players are Challengers then How do you explain this: Kennen 4.7% Pick Rate Roughly 60% Winrate Sona 7.2% Pick Rate Roughly 59% Winrate Akali 7.5% Pick Rate Roughly 45% Winrate I DON'T SEE A HIGH WINRATE LOL. The Trend should be that her winrate goes up as you go up the Ladder but that's not really happening. There are DOZENS of champions in challenger that have a considerably higher winrate than Akali. Heck she has one of the lowest winrates even in Challenger which is just stupid if you bother to think about it. All you do is Whine how "SKILLED" Akali Players are unstoppable but the Stats don't show it. You're pulling stuff out of your arse. She does not win in Low-Elo and she does not win in High Elo. The Only reason she's actually getting a fucking nerf is because she's Pick/Ban in Pro--Play. That's why Akali Players are Raging: Once again Riot is Balancing the game for Pro-Play and not for the Miliions of players that actually play the damn game.

LaçezMay 23, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Who are these Skilled Players you speak of? Winrates do not mean EVERYTHING but Let's still have a look because they are more reliable than someone's Opinion. If Skilled Players are Challengers then How do you explain this: Kennen 4.7% Pick Rate Roughly 60% Winrate Sona 7.2% Pick Rate Roughly 59% Winrate Akali 7.5% Pick Rate Roughly 45% Winrate I DON'T SEE A HIGH WINRATE LOL. The Trend should be that her winrate goes up as you go up the Ladder but that's not really happening. There are DOZENS of champions in challenger that have a considerably higher winrate than Akali. Heck she has one of the lowest winrates even in Challenger which is just stupid if you bother to think about it. All you do is Whine how "SKILLED" Akali Players are unstoppable but the Stats don't show it. You're pulling stuff out of your arse. She does not win in Low-Elo and she does not win in High Elo. The Only reason she's actually getting a fucking nerf is because she's Pick/Ban in Pro--Play. That's why Akali Players are Raging: Once again Riot is Balancing the game for Pro-Play and not for the Miliions of players that actually play the damn game.

^facts snm

D357R0Y3RMay 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Who are these Skilled Players you speak of?

Any famous akali player?

Licwit Perkz TFBlade?

Winrates do not mean EVERYTHING but Let's still have a look because they are more reliable than someone's Opinion. If Skilled Players are Challengers then How do you explain this: Kennen 4.7% Pick Rate Roughly 60% Winrate Sona 7.2% Pick Rate Roughly 59% Winrate Akali 7.5% Pick Rate Roughly 45% Winrate I DON'T SEE A HIGH WINRATE LOL.

Ye let's forget the best one

100% PICK AND BAN RATE IN MSI WITH 69% WIN RATE

I DONT SEE HIGH WIN RATE LOL

All you do is Whine how "SKILLED" Akali Players are unstoppable but the Stats don't show it.

There are no stats needed, you just need to look at famous akali mains playing the champion and 1v9ing and see how dumb the champion is

full stop

TioymMay 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Any famous akali player?

Licwit Perkz TFBlade?

Ye let's forget the best one

100% PICK AND BAN RATE IN MSI WITH 69% WIN RATE

I DONT SEE HIGH WIN RATE LOL

There are no stats needed, you just need to look at famous akali mains playing the champion and 1v9ing and see how dumb the champion is

full stop

You're bullshitting Sir. You cannot cherry Pick a few people and say She is broken Just because these few people are doing really good on her. That's a braindead Analogy. I actually cant see why you even think that argument stands. You're saying: Shaco is braindead broken because Pinkward has a really high winrate on him. Fucking Smart Dude. I wont even try to change your mind, I see no point.

D357R0Y3RMay 24, 20192 votes

I can list more akali players than shaco players that made it in the very rank that happens to make you one of the best players

specially licwit who became famous few months ago on euw by climbing from NOTHING to 700 points challenger by simply spamming akali and posted his clips on reddit.

Morever, Shaco doesn't have 100% pick/ban with 69% win rate in MSI those two facts combined makes Akali overpowered in the hands of skilled players

TormentulaMay 23, 20193 votes

You're ranting how winrates, but neglect that the sample pools in high MMR are significantly smaller.

What you're assuming is akali's pickrate are ALL experienced Akali players, but that's far from the truth since challenger is only the top 200 players and there's only so many mains/otps of each champion in that sample pool. Realistically, 2% maybe are OTPs with high winrates, where as the rest are either a) autofilled b) new to the champ and practicing it, and c) still accounting for the losses veterans would get. Ban rates are also something you can account for potentially making her playerbase even small than that, and only left open for comps built around/against her.

Sona's statistics in comparison show she's was more accessible to both veterans of her, and players that are picking her up/autofilled, considering her skill floor and skill ceiling, this makes more sense. She's also not banned nearly as much since she's not that threatening in high elo.

Kennen's statistics show less people actually play him so a larger fraction of his player base are veterans.

Also not too sure what your source is, but in chally + akali seems way higher than those stats (among jax of all things):

NA challenger: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581237503831441408/unknown.png

Filtered for global masters+ : https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581238486707994675/unknown.png

Global masters+ with a visible banrate (and the filter says normal + ranked? Does it seriously count normal games on this site?). also goes to show not all sites are similar, or that akali really does peak at challenger level.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581239688254193665/unknown.png

GripaAviaraMay 23, 20191 votes

49% at a master level mains? you're proving the exact opposite. You have a hard champion that offers little reward for mastering.

They don't need to buff Akali, just make her less punishing. Akali needs a little buff to middle/late game sustain. Her initial heal was great at that point but broken early. They just needed to offer her a scaling AP+AD heal on passive

TormentulaMay 23, 20192 votes

{quoted}

49% at a master level mains?

where are you seeing 49% 'mains'?

You mean in this screenshot?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581238486707994675/unknown.png

cause that's the collective number, not the 'mains' number. The 'mains' number is actually the 56% as that's the number collected from high elo mains of the champions.

The average of these stats:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png

That's not unrewarding to master if every 'master' is having a productive success rate, with the average expectancy of peak performance being 56.5%. It'd be unrewarding if you didn't have productive stats (such as trundle where 3 of the top 12 are D4, 2 are D1, 2 masters, 3 GM, and only 2 are challenger, showing its a lot less productive to get anywhere above an average of diamond or masters by picking up trundle in the current meta).

They don't need to buff Akali, just make her less punishing. Akali needs a little buff to middle/late game sustain. Her initial heal was great at that point but broken early. They just needed to offer her a scaling AP+AD heal on passive

Problem is ravenous hunter + taste of blood + doran's shield + akali's own healing. It puts her at an edge over other laners (especially top laners) given they couldn't even trade back with her due to the empowered auto range, Q range, and shroud.

It'd be a different story maybe if she didn't have the best escape tools and trading tools on top of sustain, but all of that at once is too much.

Its a serious mess of a kit, everything about it is problematic.. the Q spam is toxic, the empowered auto bonus range is toxic, the shroud mechanic was her biggest problem to begin with pre and post rework, and even gutted its still toxic, the E 2nd cast isn't that much of a problem but the knock back effect is way too good, and the ult giving two charges of untargeted dashes makes her incredibly too slippery and hard to punish/avoid. She needs back to the drawing board cause no matter how weak she is, if an akali is good enough to identify a situation they can still bullshit their way out of unfavorable scenarios, sometimes with a positive outcome.

TioymMay 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

where are you seeing 49% 'mains'?

You mean in this screenshot?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581238486707994675/unknown.png

cause that's the collective number, not the 'mains' number. The 'mains' number is actually the 56% as that's the number collected from high elo mains of the champions.

The average of these stats:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png

That's not unrewarding to master if every 'master' is having a productive success rate, with the average expectancy of peak performance being 56.5%. It'd be unrewarding if you didn't have productive stats (such as trundle where 3 of the top 12 are D4, 2 are D1, 2 masters, 3 GM, and only 2 are challenger, showing its a lot less productive to get anywhere above an average of diamond or masters by picking up trundle in the current meta).

Problem is ravenous hunter + taste of blood + doran's shield + akali's own healing. It puts her at an edge over other laners (especially top laners) given they couldn't even trade back with her due to the empowered auto range, Q range, and shroud.

It'd be a different story maybe if she didn't have the best escape tools and trading tools on top of sustain, but all of that at once is too much.

Its a serious mess of a kit, everything about it is problematic.. the Q spam is toxic, the empowered auto bonus range is toxic, the shroud mechanic was her biggest problem to begin with pre and post rework, and even gutted its still toxic, the E 2nd cast isn't that much of a problem but the knock back effect is way too good, and the ult giving two charges of untargeted dashes makes her incredibly too slippery and hard to punish/avoid. She needs back to the drawing board cause no matter how weak she is, if an akali is good enough to identify a situation they can still bullshit their way out of unfavorable scenarios, sometimes with a positive outcome.

The Problem is not Akali's Healing. There are dozens of other champions with the same amount of healing. This is not the Problem Your Stats Prove NOTHING. Look up Stats for the top 10 players for ANY FUCKING CHAMPION. You will see a high winrate in all of them. Stop trying to twist things to your advantage. Stop trying to cherry pick a few people out of context to support your argument.

TormentulaMay 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Your Stats Prove NOTHING. Look up Stats for the top 10 players for ANY FUCKING CHAMPION.

Because they're all different Elos, there's a difference between the top 12 players of one champion having positive winrates in challenger and the top 12 being mostly diamond or masters.

So yes, they do prove akali is a strong high elo champ in comparison to something like trundle which is mostly only positive in diamond.

Its not cherry picking if its the truth, understand the context, and understand how stats work then disprove them. Or even just play a game in high elo to see the outcome for yourself.

TioymMay 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Because they're all different Elos, there's a difference between the top 12 players of one champion having positive winrates in challenger and the top 12 being mostly diamond or masters.

So yes, they do prove akali is a strong high elo champ in comparison to something like trundle which is mostly only positive in diamond.

Its not cherry picking if its the truth, understand the context, and understand how stats work then disprove them. Or even just play a game in high elo to see the outcome for yourself.

I'm not saying Akali needs to be buffed. I'm saying they need to stop nerfing her further. So No your stats prove nothing. You can Look up the Top 10 Player stats for almost every champion and see very high winrates. Does that mean Every fucking champion now needs to be nerfed? How come Top 10 Insert Champion Player can have a 60% winrate but when a Top 10 Akali Player gets that you think to yourself: Wow fucking broken better remove. So No Your stats do not prove anything. It's just you twisting things to suit your argument. No Point having an argument with you because you're biased and you will only twist things to prove your point. Good Job.

TormentulaMay 24, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying Akali needs to be buffed. I'm saying they need to stop nerfing her further. So No your stats prove nothing.

No one said she needed buffs. As for needing nerfs, I wouldn't say the term nerf is appropriate, more or less powershifts or a straight up redo of her kit.

You can Look up the Top 10 Player stats for almost every champion and see very high winrates.

You missed the point

If you can't identify the difference between this:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png

and this:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581340419145728004/unknown.png

Then don't bother trying to come up with logic.

That doesn't mean one needs nerfs, or one needs buffs, that means akali, does succeed more in challenger, where as other champions don't succeed much at all in challenger despite lower skill floors.

You started this topic, how do you fail to keep up with it?

Does that mean Every fucking champion now needs to be nerfed?

Dodges the point

How come Top 10 Insert Champion Player can have a 60% winrate but when a Top 10 Akali Player >gets that you think to yourself: Wow fucking broken better remove.

Dodges the point because if the top peak of the leaderboards feel the need to ban a champion, and that said champion does infact do significantly better at that peak where assumingly everybody should know how to counter it, but it doesn't do well in lower MMRs, its literally Azir syndrome where the champ is toxic and if it is performing well, its probably too strong and warranted enough to nerf or adjust it.

This isn't the case because if trundle has a 60% winrate, but mostly only in diamond and masters, thats not the peak performance, thats him succeeding in less coordinated lower MMR where players make mistakes that he can punish, that doesn't make trundle good infact he's pretty shit right now. There's no reason to nerf something because low diamond can't handle it, but there is a big issue if high challenger can't handle it to the point they're banning it since again, that's a sign maybe there isn't counterplay after all.

As for other champs that are all challenger peak performance; Jayce (oh wait he is getting nerfed on PBE), Aatrox (hot damn, how many nerfs has he gotten already?), Riven (nerfs on PBE), Vayne (nerfs on PBE)

must be akali exclusive.

It's just you twisting things to suit your argument.

https://www.potterybarn.com/pbimgs/rk/images/dp/wcm/201849/0387/kensington-pivot-oval-mirror-o.jpg

No Point having an argument with you because you're biased and you will only twist things to prove your point. Good Job.

Imagine being hardstuck denial. I think you should focus on practicing playing the game and less on debates because somehow your conversation skills are worse than your game experience.

I should just say 'nah you're biased' anytime i'm wrong, I wonder how far that'll get me

[sg-miss-fortune]

IP MasquerenaMay 24, 20191 votes

I agree with you with all except 1 point, but that's questionable.

You said Akali has Ravenous + ToB + her own healing. Her healing got removed, now she doesn't have any more innate healing, so you are wrong there, unless you ment Gunblade, then you correct fully.

TormentulaMay 24, 20191 votes

I was focusing mainly on why they gutted that, she could take rav+tob+Q healing+doran's shield passive/damage reduction, which when you stacked all of them was a bit much when you consider her trading ability via shroud and Q. OP wanted them to give her a scaling heal but the problem was the fact there was an additional heal source in general rather than the fine tunings. Old Akali correct me if i'm wrong only had her old passive and the vampirism mastery, making new akali a bit more excessive.

I didn't really factor in gunblade

IP MasquerenaMay 24, 20192 votes

Old Akali was still in the game with the new runes, so she also had access to RH + ToB, so heal wise they were pretty much equal, but with a caviat. Although they both healed around the same amount, the fact that N Akali could heal from range is a big plus over O Akali. O would put herself more in danger as she needed to auto attack to heal, while N simply had to hit at least 1 creep to get the full healing, so a more reasonable nerf would be to tune the healing based on how many targets were hit, so if she hits just 1 creep, it's not as rewarding as hitting the whole wave, something akin to what Ahri has on her Q, but yes, in a way N was more excessive over O.

TioymMay 24, 20192 votes

{quoted}

No one said she needed buffs. As for needing nerfs, I wouldn't say the term nerf is appropriate, more or less powershifts or a straight up redo of her kit.

You missed the point

If you can't identify the difference between this:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png

and this:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581340419145728004/unknown.png

Then don't bother trying to come up with logic.

That doesn't mean one needs nerfs, or one needs buffs, that means akali, does succeed more in challenger, where as other champions don't succeed much at all in challenger despite lower skill floors.

You started this topic, how do you fail to keep up with it?

Dodges the point

Dodges the point because if the top peak of the leaderboards feel the need to ban a champion, and that said champion does infact do significantly better at that peak where assumingly everybody should know how to counter it, but it doesn't do well in lower MMRs, its literally Azir syndrome where the champ is toxic and if it is performing well, its probably too strong and warranted enough to nerf or adjust it.

This isn't the case because if trundle has a 60% winrate, but mostly only in diamond and masters, thats not the peak performance, thats him succeeding in less coordinated lower MMR where players make mistakes that he can punish, that doesn't make trundle good infact he's pretty shit right now. There's no reason to nerf something because low diamond can't handle it, but there is a big issue if high challenger can't handle it to the point they're banning it since again, that's a sign maybe there isn't counterplay after all.

As for other champs that are all challenger peak performance; Jayce (oh wait he is getting nerfed on PBE), Aatrox (hot damn, how many nerfs has he gotten already?), Riven (nerfs on PBE), Vayne (nerfs on PBE)

must be akali exclusive.

https://www.potterybarn.com/pbimgs/rk/images/dp/wcm/201849/0387/kensington-pivot-oval-mirror-o.jpg

Imagine being hardstuck denial. I think you should focus on practicing playing the game and less on debates because somehow your conversation skills are worse than your game experience.

I should just say 'nah you're biased' anytime i'm wrong, I wonder how far that'll get me

[sg-miss-fortune]

Trundle is a More or Less Easy Champion which is made for Low-elo which is why you see Less Challengers playing him. His Kit is easy to understand other than the Pillar and easy to Execute as well. There is a Limit to how many things you can do as A Trundle while that Limit is much Larger for Akali. This is why More Challenger Players will pick Akali. Trundle does not even have a high Pick-rate in High-Elo. Again you're twisting the stats to suit your needs. Pick a Champion that has a Similar Pick-Rate as Akali in High-Elo and you will see Comparable Stats. You're basically doing this: Hey There are 10 Akali Mains in Challenger while only 2 Ziggz mains in Challenger, Akali Confirmed broken.

Your Analogy is stupid yet again and I cant seem to understand why you would keep on trying to argue with me when you keep getting Proved wrong. Garen will never be as viable as Akali in High Elo because he is made to for Low-Elo. You cannot Compare a champion such as Trundle who is made mainly for Low-Elo to Akali who is made for High-Elo. Ahri is a somewhat hard champion to Pull off which explains her Pick-rate in challenger(Roughly 8% Similar to Akali). Comparing Ahri and Akali, you will see that there are a large number of Ahri Mains in challenger as well. I DONT SEE ANY AHRI NERFS. She does well in High-Elo AND Low-Elo. She has a high winrate as well. You're just whining because you dominated by an Akali in your game.

Dont waste my time.

KadexeMay 23, 20195 votes

Akali needs to be reworked to be more accessible, and less powerful in the hands of pro players.

IP MasquerenaMay 24, 20192 votes

I don't fully agree.

Should she be changed to be weaker in the hands of the best players? Yes.

But I don't agree that she should be much more accessible. I'm already tired of seeing "mechanically intense champions" being made easier to play (Zed, Riven, Vayne and co.) I actually want some champions to simply not be for lower elos, yes, it sucks that Akali has to be one of them as she is and always was one of my most beloved champions, but I still believe that not everything should be for everyone.

Tomoe GozenMay 23, 20194 votes

The thing is, there's a point where you're basically nerfing a champion too much for pro play and it has a negative effect for every ELO. I like playing Akali myself and when i get her in ARAM, i tend to get my ass handed to me most of the times due to Akali not having her melee safety net anymore. No heal and no shroud protection.

So when you get jumped by a few people, you can't trade well and the shroud actually reveals you while you're getting pummeled, which results in your death the soon as you cast it, as if you never did anyway. I know i said ARAM and that's not really indicative of her SR experience but the same thing happens in 1v1 melee VS ranged matchup with her.

Playing Akali now has become a micromanaging task because pros know how to do this while the average played doesn't. If i have to play a 100 games on a champion and win only 40% of the time, i never actually have any fun in between until i hit this proficiency breakpoint where i'm on the level of pros and can enjoy their win rate - which is not possible, by the way. So we get stuck with these nerfs and enjoy the new lows the pros don't have to deal with while also not enjoying their highs. We're stuck in Limbo.

This has happened before with Azir, Ryze and Kalista.

Exin0May 23, 20193 votes

just like how are balanced around low elo and got nerfed despite never being OP in pro play.

because their kits are so bad if they make them viable in pro they become ultimate pubstompers in lower elo.

Sir SaltarinMay 23, 20197 votes

Well that's exactly what he's saying, if we acept that some champs are balanced around low elo/soloQ then we need to acept that some other champs are balanced around pro play

Akali being one of them

Tomoe GozenMay 23, 20193 votes

Except that noob friendly champions that have low skill ceilings are also mechanically simple and can easily be worked around by players with more skill. Marginal skill. There's a reason why Garen's not a widely popular champion. He can work and his kit is solid but it's simple and if you build a team around long range poke and some bruisers, Garen's not gonna have a good time manually dodging 15 CCs until he gets hit by one and the entire nuclear arsenal gets dropped on his head.

Meanwhile, if you balance champs mostly for pro play, you end up having abysmal winrate in every other ELO but pro scene, effectively removing that champion from viability for 99% of players.