Because his kit doesn't work with 
, 
and 
Any champion that doesn't use this 3 items or need them, is success in my eyes and not toxic kit champion.
Honestly right now, riot should take their hand off him and let people learn him as not repeat the same mistake with 
who forced her kit to go in rageblade direction and be toxic op champion.
Meep Man10 votesHis kit DOES work with as each Q counts as a cast. The question is whether that's worth enough to use it over other items.
ValiantKiller5 votes[{quoted}](name=The God of Rams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AOrqEOhN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-28T00:24:24.790+0000)
His kit DOES work with
Honestly black cleaver sound better with casting skills
Troll for Trump3 votesToo hard to weave autos on aatrox.
Meep Man3 votes"Hard" and "Good" are not mutually exclusive.
Troll for Trump1 votesIt is in this case. It's hard enough to weave autos on aatrox to the point that the item isn't good on him.
FoamingStuff2 votes[{quoted}](name=Ðownright Darius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AOrqEOhN,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-06-28T06:44:52.722+0000)
Too hard to weave autos on aatrox.
is it even possible? I tried him in botgames only so I don't know but seems to be if I have to hit stuff with the edge of my Q, I can't exactly weave AA's in
I hated everything about the champion, personally, it feels weird and 3levels lower renektonbot with no items went into my melee and actually nearly killed me cause I couldn't use E to go BACKWARDS so I can actually hit him with my Q.
It's probably me being bad but... A melee champion that's not melee? I also was at a complete loss on what to buy, no item seems particularly good for him?
Troll for Trump1 votesAs a Juggernaut, he has the same strong synergies with Jugger items: cleaver, Sterak, arguably Triforce, and Visage. He's really good with Death's Dance, and I would suggest getting it as one of the first 2 core items.
You can weave it in it just feels really clunky. In teamfights, you don't have enough time to weave in aas and you'll rarely be in range. Better to just spam Q>
He cant aa if he aims to land the sweet spots.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesyeah it work, but this board have bad theorycrafting.
Khristophoros10 votesThe moment they buff him enough to make up for his shitty kit he'll be abusing 
and it will be cancer
ValiantKiller3 votesThe moment they buff him enough to make up for his shitty kit he'll be abusing
That why i said riot please don't touch him, he is fine.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesIts not an abuse.
BLIGHTBRINGER9 votesI think his design is ACTUALLY balanced, something that I find hard to say for the rest of the 140+ champions.
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AOrqEOhN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-28T05:51:35.408+0000)
I think his design is ACTUALLY balanced, something that I find hard to say for the rest of the 140+ champions.
I know, right ?
CapnMorganFr3man2 votes[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AOrqEOhN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-28T05:51:35.408+0000)
I think his design is ACTUALLY balanced, something that I find hard to say for the rest of the 140+ champions.
Why don't you actually play him before you say he's going to be in a decent spot? The champion is deeply flawed in his core mechanics. His W is as bad as 
s reworked W before the increased to size, only it's worse since you didnt have to worry about minions blocking it with . Unless you're playing against an ape, you're not going to land all your qs, not to mention you have to keep players at an arms length to land them which is counterintuitive since you're a melee champion with an attack mod passive. The damage from the ultimate is okay, but the revive is pretty pointless for anything but tower diving since the hp you get back is minuscule usually plus the fact that your cooldowns are so long you really dont have anything to fight back with so when you res so you just revive and anyone can sneeze on you after to kill you.
BLIGHTBRINGER1 votesI wasn't suggesting that his kit is effective and strong, I only meant to say that it is balanced in terms of counterplay and having the ability to play around his current abilities better (like dodging/sidestepping), something that other champions don't offer their opponents (Jax Q, Camille R, Irelia Q, Darius R, etc...)
EDIT: I have played a few games with the new Aatrox on this account, but majority of the games I played him were in PBE.
Akali is SO HOT7 votesMost champions who use Trinity and Duskblade are just fine. Rageblade is a stupid item though.
ValiantKiller3 votes[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AOrqEOhN,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-06-28T06:52:53.661+0000)
Most champions who use Trinity and Duskblade are just fine. Rageblade is a stupid item though.
That is true.
RainXBlade1 votesThe phantom hit mechanic was already broken from the get-go. I have no idea why Riot decided to push through in putting this mechanic in the game in the first place. (Hi Sated Devourer)
Glasss of Water2 voteschampions themselves are balanced, items are broken as fuck
NahDogSolRahn4 votesnearly anyone can use these items though by the simple fact that everyone does AA damage.
ValiantKiller2 votesnearly anyone can use these items though by the simple fact that everyone does AA damage.
But duskblade doesn't porc all game unless you got hide, rageblade require AA all game without interrupt and trinity prefer reset AA skills.
Leverette2 votesAny sophisticated Aatrox who was both a scholar and a gentleman should've already been using Guinsoo's Rageblade since patch 6.9 made him able to proc W every other auto. Though until the recent update for Guinsoo's that reminded everyone that item exists, people always laughed at me for building it before then. I showed them though. Mastery 7 never before came so quickly against their foolish, biased, unimaginative selves. Shame my second most played character doesn't exist anymore now though.
ValiantKiller1 votesAny sophisticated Aatrox who was both a scholar and a gentleman should've already been using Guinsoo's Rageblade since patch 6.9 made him able to proc W every other auto. Though until the recent update for Guinsoo's that reminded everyone that item exists, people always laughed at me for building it before then. I showed them though. Mastery 7 never before came so quickly against their foolish, biased, unimaginative selves. Shame my second most played character doesn't exist anymore now though.
But it a toxic item, you got to admit and he is balanced right now admit it or not.
Leverette2 votesI'm sorry, what are we admitting again? First of all I was referring to the 6.9 version of Guinsoo's anyway, which no one used and was considered a troll item that only trolls purchased, so no, the problems you experience with it nowadays were not even remotely an issue back then. Context is important. As for the new Aatrox...
Just what about him is balanced, exactly? He is literally designed to either 100-0 somebody in one combo (oh yes, because that's fun to play against right?) or be completely useless if he can't seal the deal with that one combo. He was designed with today's meta in mind. Do you understand that? He either instakills or he accomplishes nothing ever. He isn't like Darius who can keep beating the hell out of you with autos and make you bleed to death as he face-tanks everything you've got with his manly base stats. Aatrox's combo is all he has and it's on a long cooldown. What does that mean other than "instakill meta"? As soon as the meta changes to not be a oneshotfest, he'll never see the light of day because it's all he was designed to do. Assuming people can stand his clunkiness long enough for that to even happen.
He's not going to be fun to play alongside because you won't be able to rely on him doing ANYTHING half the time since his Q, which is all he contributes, is designed to miss a whole lot. You'll always have to plan around the idea that he probably won't be helpful.
He's not going to be fun to play against because if he does hit you with his combo, you're just instantly condemned with no say in the matter.
Look, I can agree with you that certain items in the game are infuriating pieces of garbage but saying that anything that doesn't use those garbage items is good or balanced is just feeding into other equally crappy problems. Lets just agree that those items are toxic trash, AND that this rework is specifically designed to be unfun.
ValiantKiller1 votesI'm sorry, what are we admitting again? First of all I was referring to the 6.9 version of Guinsoo's anyway, which no one used and was considered a troll item that only trolls purchased, so no, the problems you experience with it nowadays were not even remotely an issue back then. Context is important. As for the new Aatrox...
Just what about him is balanced, exactly? He is literally designed to either 100-0 somebody in one combo (oh yes, because that's fun to play against right?) or be completely useless if he can't seal the deal with that one combo. He was designed with today's meta in mind. Do you understand that? He either instakills or he accomplishes nothing ever. He isn't like Darius who can keep beating the hell out of you with autos and make you bleed to death as he face-tanks everything you've got with his manly base stats. Aatrox's combo is all he has and it's on a long cooldown. What does that mean other than "instakill meta"? As soon as the meta changes to not be a oneshotfest, he'll never see the light of day because it's all he was designed to do. Assuming people can stand his clunkiness long enough for that to even happen.
He's not going to be fun to play alongside because you won't be able to rely on him doing ANYTHING half the time since his Q, which is all he contributes, is designed to miss a whole lot. You'll always have to plan around the idea that he probably won't be helpful.
He's not going to be fun to play against because if he does hit you with his combo, you're just instantly condemned with no say in the matter.
Look, I can agree with you that certain items in the game are infuriating pieces of garbage
For me right now dealing with him is much less toxic before his rework, it my own exp. like i enjoy playing against him in lane but once he put his hand over rageblade it just make me disgust like how i get disgust from tryn and yi using rageblade.
ChasmOfTrossm1 votesAny sophisticated Aatrox who was both a scholar and a gentleman should've already been using Guinsoo's Rageblade since patch 6.9 made him able to proc W every other auto. Though until the recent update for Guinsoo's that reminded everyone that item exists, people always laughed at me for building it before then. I showed them though. Mastery 7 never before came so quickly against their foolish, biased, unimaginative selves. Shame my second most played character doesn't exist anymore now though.
Building guinoos+gunblade back when his E still had an AP ratio and did magic damage was pretty fun, and gave his ult's active some firm padding. I highly disapprove of the fact that Aatrox as a caster is unable to build attack speed items, and there really isn't much way to justify constructing his kit to not have it. J4, Vi, and Wukong, and Camille are all AD-Casters who have attack speed built in as a way of following up on their initiations, though all of them admittedly have a way of getting around armor, which makes the attack speed necessary, Aatrox never had this.
I am honestly somewhat tempted to try botrk on Aatrox just to see if it can add something to his passive, but suspect it may scale very shittily with the rest of his kit.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votesHis kit work with .
is viable... but the item is meh since the nerf.
Thefrostyviking1 votesHe doesnt look terribly good as a toplaner though, too many weaknesses relative to the others.
However he seems like he´d make a good jungler, built in sustain, easy to hit the CC on targets and he can get through the small walls.
His W while not great as a CC, is still ranged and slows.
AirKingNeo1 votesHow is Trinity a "toxic item" or is this just random venting about Irelia?
ChasmOfTrossm1 votesI would prefer that since Aatrox's Q is an ability involving his blade that it apply on-hit effects, but I can see how that would...complicate things.
Oleandervine1 votesHere's my thing though - did we really expect that when they announced that was based off Vayne, that she'd be anything but cancer?
ValiantKiller1 votesHere's my thing though - did we really expect that when they announced that
That is true xD
BlackEyesBlue1 votesI've only played him once in the practice tool to get a feel for him and here's my thoughts.
I do agree his kit feels a bit clunky and could use some tweaks, His Q in particular, I'd have him still be able to move while doing it, but at a significantly reduced speed. Say about 50%. Also his passive feels like an after though. It's disgustingly strong when it hits, but the CD is WAY too long. I'd refund the CD when he gets a kill with it, including minions and monsters of coarse. Now it rewards your last hitting skill! Mechanically I think these are the only true issues with him.
The REAL problem though, as I stated in another discussion, is that he released into an environment where his play style is incredibly weak! He's designed to be a scrappy bruiser, but with everything doing atomic damage and the meta's strongest champs all being hyper mobile? It just makes him a poor pick... Not even getting into how there are other fighters who can split push faster....
The last three major champ releases were all assassin-esc by design (
) So it didn't matter to them as much. but new Troxy is the first major release into this environment that WASN'T designed to speed nuke targets so it REALLY shows! I'm hoping that the silver lining of this is that the balance gets re-reviewed in a way that slows the damage down.... AND that their "FIX" isn't to increase HIS damage to make him "viable"...
ValiantKiller1 votesI've only played him once in the practice tool to get a feel for him and here's my thoughts.
I do agree his kit feels a bit clunky and could use some tweaks, His Q in particular, I'd have him still be able to move while doing it, but at a significantly reduced speed. Say about 50%. Also his passive feels like an after though. It's disgustingly strong when it hits, but the CD is WAY too long. I'd refund the CD when he gets a kill with it, including minions and monsters of coarse. Now it rewards your last hitting skill! Mechanically I think these are the only true issues with him.
The REAL problem though, as I stated in another discussion, is that he released into an environment where his play style is incredibly weak! He's designed to be a scrappy bruiser, but with everything doing atomic damage and the meta's strongest champs all being hyper mobile? It just makes him a poor pick... Not even getting into how there are other fighters who can split push faster....
The last three major champ releases were all assassin-esc by design (
People forgot about how urgot Q and E is clunky , but yah i could agree his kit is abit clunky still in my eyes it doesn't allow the abuse of rageblade like he used to be.
princeblumpkin1 votesYasuo and Zoe don't use any of those items. Your move, OP.
ValiantKiller3 votesYasuo and Zoe don't use any of those items. Your move, OP.
Well they don't need items to be toxic, their kit is toxic on it own xD
GreyVictory15101 votesI think his biggest problems are his Q stopping him instantly. When you move with 3 speedbuffs on and Q you feel cc'd by yourself and that feels bad. Let his Q jump him a tiny bit, scaling a bit with speedbuffs luke WW Ult. As compensation you should not be able to cast E mid-Q but use it to extend your jump before the smash. His second problem is, that his W feels useless as soon as someone buys boots. Please let the slow get stronger the further they run away from W's middle. That would still let enemies leave on the side but make running away from him harder.
