God kalista makes me want to eat glass
She is so god damn oppressive and idk why riot wanted her to be viable again before kit changes x.x
She is so god damn oppressive and idk why riot wanted her to be viable again before kit changes x.x
you cant eat glass without eating ass so thats good if you are into that sort of thing
Then assassins get buffed, adc's get one shot with 0 counterplay, Tanks become meta to be a meat shield against assassins, assassins complain so adcs get buffed to make tanks obselete the cycle continues.
This happens especially when Kalista is viable, they can't do anything to her due to her kit without making her completely gutted or nerfing the entire role
Are you implying tanks are obsolete?
Tanks are broken right now.
Tanks will always be broken, they are essential for a team composition. They are meant to stop burst damage, and since that's what half of the playerbase focuses on (assassins, mages, burst divers, burst adc) it's no wonder people consider tanks to be broken. They are simply doing what they are meant to do.
There's such a thing as being too strong as well, but personally outside of the Aftershock rune abusers (


etc.) I don't think tanks are too strong.
There are still some effective tank busters, that'll be able to deal with tanks just fine regardless of how strong tanks become.

Maokai, Ornn, Cho'Gath, Shen
All fucking meta because they're so broken.
I agree, though someone like Shen is mostly broken in coordinated play. Ornn and Cho are just overtuned while Maokai is just cancer.
Still, besides the squishies I listed most of them are able to deal with those 4 guys too. Trundle is basically a god when it comes to dealing with tanks.
ult -->
= Negative armor and mr
Edit: I forgot to mention those 4 tanks are also Aftershock abusers
Cho is a special playstyle, Shen isn't broken for 99.5% of the playerbase, and only Mao and Orn are really strong, because RIOT recently overbuffed them.
So, two outliers, and one that has always been very good in masters/challenger, but weak elsewhere who continues to hold that pattern. . .
How the fuck does that translate into the entire goddamn role being strong? Especially when everyone else is noticeably sub-par. . . damage is way the fuck too high across the board, and defense has been gutted across the board.
Cho'gath is a tank. AoE CC and tankiness means you're a tank. Shen's winrate and damage is too high. He shouldn't have as good as a winrate as he does now. Maokai wasn't overbuffed recently. He's been broke for a LONG time.
If damage is too high, why do bruiser suck? If defense has been gutted, why are tanks broken?
RIOT has said Cho is not a tank, but is in fact a special playstyle (they likened him to a raid boss, someone who's entirely telegraphed, and that you have to keep away, but very easy to deal with if you know his mechanics/you work with your team) multiple times now.
Tanks are not fucking broken. There are tanks with 43% winrates right now, and 9 different tanks have sub 50% winrates. Almost the only tanks who are doing well right now are support tanks who are taking advantage of the bot lane dominance lately, then Rammus and Mao, and Mal are the only other ones with positive winrates.
Orn is sitting at a ranked global winrate of 49.5% for example, he's not even above 50% despite being BS to lane against as most melees.
Wait, Sej also has a 50.9% WR, but clearly far from broken.
https://www.op.gg/champion/ornn/statistics/top
51.2% winrate with enormous pick rate.
If tanks suck, then why are a majority of tanks good? Ornn, Maokai, Sejuani, Shen, Cho'Gath, Malphite, Tahm Kench, Singed, Rammus, and Sion all viable. Who isn't viable? Zac, due to an impossible to balance kit; Galio, due to Riot breaking his design; and Poppy, for a poor early game. If only 3 tanks are 'weak' and a majority of tanks are overpowered (Maokai, Shen, Ornn, Sejuani, Cho'Gath, Rammus, Sion) with tank items being broken (Stoneplate, Adaptive Helm), then tanks are probably broken. When tanks are rushing Frozen Heart, Righteous Glory, or Adaptive Helm top lane and outdamaging most bruisers, you know there's an issue.
So we should now balance around the 99,5% who cant play the game? Is that your logic?
Broken as in absolute dog shit? Ornn and Mao are good. Let's look at 'tanks'.

Yeah....so broken. The class is trash, with a couple of outliers that are performing well. Poor itemization with situational actives/passives and underwhelming runes that can't save them from the dps that is through the roof atm.
Just because Ornn or Sej becomes fotm with buffs doesn't mean that the entire class is redeemed. Tanks are severely under performing right now, and I've never seen them getting so frequently insta popped as is happening right now.
You call Mundo a tank? With no AoE CC?
Well, he can't really function as a bruiser, or skirmisher, or whatever it's being called now. He's stuck stacking health to feed his passive, and synergizes with magic resist after the change a couple of patches ago.
He's really just outdated, but I'd consider him as another bad tank who doesn't work well with tank items that have downsides and situational actives/passives. He suffers what most tanks suffer from, you can't kill him when he's top lane but he's not a real threat, and he becomes near irrelevant when the team fights start.
Juggernaut
Ahhh yeah that's it. I always hated all the classifications, as they don't make sense sometimes. Juggernaut would work for him, since most of them are lane bullies who get kited and ccd forever when they leave top lane.
Then gut kalista? Put her into yorick hibernation'? No skins, no buffs, nothing. Make this thing go. Just played against a kalista. Fuck this dogshit champion. A terror for anyone who has to play against decent kalistas.
I don't know why I wanted her to be in meta, now I prefer draven over kalista anytime
Legit same.Dumb ole me was like "omg stop gutting champs!!!!!1!" Little did I know..
You’re complain about a 47% win rate champion over guys like Ezreal, Vayne, Twitch. Vayne is probably the biggest offender right now getting two items then three shotting you into oblivion.
Ezreal is at a whopping 65% ban rate while still withholding a 55% win rate.
Kalista isn’t good, with such an early game snowball meta just play lane bullies against her and you’ll be fine. Kalista needs the attack speed/AD to scale and with how low attack speed she has early no way she can be proactive.
There is a huge difference between winrate and overall toxicity of a kit. The champs you mentioned are absolutely stupid and hilariously busted, but Kalista is rotten to the core. It doesn't matter what her winrate is, if she is viable, she is not fun to play against. If you are immobile, she shits on you. If you are skillshot based, she shits on you. If you are mele, she shits on you. If you pick anyone in the game that doesn't directly counter her, you are going to have a bad time.
zoe is niot funny to play aginst, and here she is, so pretty clear dat doesnt care to riot
Both champions are designed by the same man. The almighty satan overlord CertainlyT.
He makes fun champs. I don't care what other people think. Personally I have no problem playing against the champs he has made, it is a unique fight against them.
Yes so fun.
So fun to have my projectiles blocked by a semi-tanky fighter even though he throws it in the wrong damn direction
So fun to be perma slowed
by AI plants that deal as much, if not more, damage than her rotation
So fun to play against this thing as Insert all melee champions except
here. Guess you need CertainlyT creations to counter CertainlyT creations.
This guy is actually pretty okay
So fun to be hit by a 2500 range sleep and then be hit by a star for 165% AP scaling, and then she proceeds to escape my jungler with the flash she just stole from me. Oh but it's okay, we'll just send the assassin after her an- NOPE
... guess we'll wait it out then. Second
after that.
Man doesn't create fun champions for anyone but the one playing them.
was the first generation for LCS bigplay supports.
It's actually nice that he diversified the support role with champs like Thresh, but obviously that doesn't work out so well in other classes.
this guy should stop to do midlaner and focus on do supports, we need new support (i main midlane, and its already overchamped()
Except that almost every champion is designed with the idea of heavy utility + damage in mind. I wouldn't like a Brand - Zoe hybrid.
Utility - damage - offensive mobility
range - tankiness - defensive mobility
Pick two from the first list if it's a carry champion, or the second list if it's a supportive champion. Then pick one from the other list. You can pick the same option twice.
That's pretty much how all champs are made :p
No but, whatever.

That Zoe star has not only the ratio, but also bonus true dmg from e sleep.
Actually, his designs are fun...for the person playing his champions.
Also, i don't know why but i never found Yasuo to be oppressing to play against. I mean sure, his E is fucking disgusting when he is fed because he'll zone you out like Pantheon but to get to that point has always been hard for him when laning vs me. He is just too predictable. He'll charge his tornado and try to hit you with it. If he's too close and misses, he's screwed.
It took thousands of nerfs to get Thresh where he is now and I'd argue he's still poorly designed but that you don't recognize it much since most of the people who play this game don't play a bot lane role and any time Thresh dominates he just enables everyone else on his team so it's not as obvious that he's overloaded since he's not the one with a huge kill streak.
I like how you disclude the aids support that is thresh. With how much CC supports have nowadays they are all game winners and make ADCs even more bs to play against (though much of the fault falls on ADCs). Ultimately I will never find thresh to be not BS.
Oh yeah he designed darius and zed too.
Anyway, kalista beats yasuo hands down (in regards to yasuo being able to beat her).
The same thing could be said about any champion that uses rylai's.
Aye, but this one can walk away and let her AI ranged attacking plants do it for her, and they hit extremely hard at the same time. It's basically a perma slow from 2k+ range.
Zoe, thresh and Zyra are all Okay tbh.
That scenario you mentioned is extremely unlikely anyway, she'd need to be behind one of the three~ walls that reach 2500+ range, QRQ pick up your flash which is towards your side of the fight (and she already used ult earlier so she has to do nothing but run around in circles for 6 seconds on just make a beeline for it) then flash away, then have a mage Zhonya's right beside her or have a minion by complete chance happen to carry a zhonya's while she has her own up right now, with the assassin completely disregarding her cooldowns.
It's fun playing against Zoe compared to a lot of other champions (with low ping at least) because if she pops out of nowhere with ult you can predict where she'll go back, but she's not brain dead predictable like Xin and Nasus in terms of what she'll do when she's ulted towards a location (will she reactivate Q, E, try to bait a spell, etc?)
Thresh I find more annoying than Zyra. He always has an answer to fulfill whatever the ADC needs except sustain. He can peel, engage, aid kiting and chasing, and more, with much less effort than nami, the other generalist support, IMO (but still not as bad as yasuo and kalista). Zyra's plants do a lot of damage but the AI tends to make them aim the tank first and they're fairly easy to get rid of, other than that her plant seeds are obvious unless she Ws as she casts.
Tbh I respect Thresh being able to be as utilitial as he is because he actually requires quite a lot of skill to use effectively, more so than Zyra or Nami.
It's true for Zyra, but Thresh and Nami are both considered the 'high skill' supports, usually to an equal extent.
If I had to pick one it'd be Nami though, I've tried both and while I didn't contribute much as Thresh, when I played Nami I both didn't contribute much and fed a lot as I was much more squishy. Plus I found hook much easier to land than bubble for some reason, no clue why.
I always thought Nami was better since you can just sit back and play like a heal bot if you can't play agressively.
I tried that once and ran out of mana waay too quickly (wtf 130 mana or only 65 healing?)... Its main advantage is that it does damage as well so if your lane isn't aggressive Nami is even worse than Sona in sustain (but better in peel)
Heal bot Nami would probably work with new manaflow though, haven't tried her in a long time
A passive (but poke based) Nami is hard because she has to constantly pay attention to her ADC's position, health, her mana AND memorize her ebb and flow bounce range, while being able to predict if the ADC will be in range of an enemy in the time it takes for the projectile to travel to him. On top of that all of the usual things like predicting an engage to be ready to Q. I can imagine the result is something to behold though, an experienced Nami can create a huge health advantage over time without ever being in range for poke/retaliation the same way Sona is for her Q
I played Nami and with the range indicator on her heal it wasn't really hard to predict when I could get damage/heal, I'd usually just wait for the other adc or support to poke than use the heal.
Another easy way to increase poke is to just use your ability that empowers your adcs autos so they win the trade. That paired with your heal gives you quite the advantage in lane. There's a reason she's one of the highest winrate supports right now.
The only person who might be an issue is Kalista. The rest? People like to be the aggressor of their lane and hence play themselves into those champions strengths. I don't remember the last time I lost to a yas (unless I was playing a champ I do not normally play into him). Zyra is somewhat annoying, but is squishy as all hell (I actually had no idea he did zyra/her rework). Thresh is fine as you admit. Zoe has the potential to be strong when played right, but personally I have yet to lose a lane to her. I do not play aggressive at all into her though, so that is probably why. Play off of their mistakes against his creations and you generally come out ahead, but people do not like to play off of others mistakes, instead they want to make the flashy play themselves.
Wait thresh has been a balance horror until this day. While he is a big playmaker he also invalidateshalf the league champions roster whenever he is in the game.
It's unique to fight against them, but only if you have the capability to do so. That capability is more linked to the champ you pick than your playstyle. The only way you're going to beat a CertainlyT-type champ is with another CertainlyT-type champ (basically almost all of the nwer, updated champs. The CertainlyT style of mobility creep and dmg creep, while creating interesting, unique playstyles, has shifted the game's identity. CertainlyT isn't the only one doing this, but his champs are good examples.
The only time they are fair to play against is when they're heavily watered down.
When you look at the matchups the CertainlyT stuff wins against, a lot of it tends to be older champs, while even and negative winrates tend to belong to newer champs. The new champs are seldom balanced around the older champs, and seem to be more for the sake of being innovative and unique (which they are).
Once kited out a Sej, Riven, and someone else don't know who all at once. Can confirm anyone with half a brain and two items on Kalista is not really fair to play against. I'm honestly super excited for her eventual rework because despite playing since Yasuo came out, Riot has never released a marksmen I really like. Ashe and Sivir were both already old as fuck and all the new ones are cool but don't grab me for more than a game or two. I hope soon they release one I actually like.
It's funny cuz as a Kalista main before the most recent iteration, I can say that she isn't fun to play against, nor is she fun to play as
We've rolled two gutter balls on this one
Edit: She's not fun to play with if you're her Oathsworn either so make that three gutter balls
Kalista was 100% ban rate at Worlds this year. This tell something about how broken she can be as soon as she is "viable". One of those champions who should never have been released imo.